[15:12] Vanni Cannoli: Good morning and welcome to Koffee
Klatch!
[15:13] Vanni Cannoli: Before I open the discussion, let me
post the usual header: Our discussions
are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if
you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually
directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract
either your C or your Q. If a person has
a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @
[name]"
[15:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in
the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a
person's comment to the top.
[15:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a
question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply,
replies to the question will be open.
Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[15:14] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): While we are a
chatty group, lots of extra chat makes it "noisy," so if we can
please keep that to a minimum, it would be very appreciated, thank Y/you!
[15:14] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The blog for this
munch is:
https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/
It holds the archive for our munches here starting Jan 3, 2021.
[15:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We continue our
discussion of the D/s part of the BDSM acronym today by poking a topic that
causes endless bickering in the BDSM world....the differences between
"subs" and "slaves"
[15:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If you ask ten
different modern witches what a "witch" really is, you get ten
different answers. Same with this
discussion...ask ten different BDSM enthusiasts what the real difference
between a "sub" and a "slave" is, and you'll get a bevy of
replies.
[15:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm not giving my
view until the end, maybe. But I will
ask that our august assembly give not only their view of these differences, but
why a person might choose one or the other to express their submission.
[15:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm also very
interested in hear from our Dominants about what attracts them to one type or
the other...is the type of person expressing submission congruent with the
level of domination a Dominant person wants to express?
[15:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In other
words: what makes a sub vs slave tick,
and why are You attracted to some level of submission in a person?
[15:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I hope that all
makes sense, I've been out of bed about 30 minutes lol
[15:20] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): perfectly
[15:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so floor is open,
go ahead!
[15:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok Master Ballard, go ahead whenever you are ready!
[15:24] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Sorry Vanni, I didn't
realize that you are done. To me the
difference between a slave, a submissive, or one girl I had who was neither,
(she was a slut), the differences are individual, and I am not able to sit here
and write out a specific definition.
What lies in the heart is what is discovered, and then go forward from
that. The name we give is really never
going to be perfect.
[15:24] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): #
[15:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree Master
Ballard, what is a 'slave' to one person might be totally foreign to another
who uses the same moniker.
[15:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As a follow up,
Master, You have had a bevy of different s-types in Your house. Would You say each one provides a different
aspect of D/s to You and appeals to different drives in You?
[15:27] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): oh hell yes.
[15:27] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): I take pride in their
differences. You will never fgind 3 more
diofferent people.
[15:27] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): smiles
[15:27] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): They all share a keen
intellect, and quirks of their own
[15:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Very cool!
[15:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You for
starting us off Master!
[15:28] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Sapiosexual
[15:28] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): :)
[15:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): grins
[15:29] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Continuing in the
Svenska Household, we move to Peaches please!
[15:30] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): YAY
[15:30] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): hugs her
Mistress
[15:30] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): smiles
proudly
[15:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's lovely :)
[15:31] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's a very
common term we hear, "right of refusal" and I'll be interested to
hear how others interpret it.
[15:32] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): may I vanni?
[15:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): go ahead if you
have a follow up
[15:33] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): as long as my
limits are not crossed, I will obey pretty much any Dominant.Only if it crosses
my limits, I dont feel I have the right to refuse
[15:34] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This is why I
appreciate having these discussions, so everyone's take can be heard and
compared and we can all grow from them
[15:34] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): i meant to say
unless it crosses my limits i dont feel i have the right to refuse
[15:34] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!
[15:34] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent, thank
you Peaches! ♥
[15:34] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): now the cup is full
lol
[15:35] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's go to Miss
Nikki next, please
[15:35] Nikki Naughty Irelund (Brigid Huntress): As open
poly, "slave" doesn't work for me. It implies single / sole ownership
or group ownership. I don't want to own, I wish willing submission, Slave is a level of restriction I don't feel I
need or want. I'm not so arrogant as to believe I can be all things to someone.
#
[15:35] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods
thoughtfully
[15:36] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh that's very
interesting, Miss, how You tied the poly lifestyle to ownership and submission!
[15:36] Nikki Naughty Irelund (Brigid Huntress): Poly is
almost antithesis to ownershi#
[15:37] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You for that
interesting comment, Miss! :)
[15:37] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move on to Sir
RJ next, please
[15:38] RJ (LaughingBoy76 Resident): #
[15:38] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Ah, the good old days
[15:39] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): waves Keli to his side
[15:39] Abraham Jacobson (abrahamjacobs2 Resident): Still my
days
[15:40] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I do think
dictionary definitions can help, Sir, but one one hand, lots of subs will say
they are "owned" by their Dominant body and soul, and will also say
they aren't particularly sheeplike *grins*
And of course, around the world, slavery is illegal so it's more a term
we use than an actual legal status.
[15:40] Nikki Naughty Irelund (Brigid Huntress): Labels tend
to be confining, relationships are complex and evolving. We use labels for
conveniece#
[15:41] RJ (LaughingBoy76 Resident): I agree Vanni hence the
contextual differences I mentioned of which I'm sure there are many
[15:42] Alon Ryland (prodrvr Resident): I’d say there is a
fair amount of disagreement on this topic. My opinion is that since there is no
single recognized definition, the only thing that matters is how you choose to
define it in your relationship and making sure that all parties are using that
same definition.
[15:42] Nikki Naughty Irelund (Brigid Huntress): nods
[15:42] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): smiles at Keli, touching her shoulder
[15:42] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good comment, thank
You Sir RJ :)
[15:42] RJ (LaughingBoy76 Resident): My pleasure
[15:43] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): yes..in bdsm..a
person chooses, with their own free will to be a slave to their owner, not the
same as illegal slavery
[15:43] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): agrees
[15:43] Wieke Audeburgh (Wieke Audeburgh): nods
[15:44] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok let's move on to
Rouge who assures me she has a book for us .. go ahead smexy!
[15:44] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): *laughs*
[15:44] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): ducks
[15:44] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): ok this needs
to be posted in 2 parts XD
[15:44] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): waved her arm.."and the slave speaks!
[15:44] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): *laughs*
[15:44] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): Thanks Vanni,
[15:44] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): me, more so having lived by them for nearly
25 years and counting. yes, there are and will be some who are totally against
this way of thinking, who may and have tried to shoot me down for such, trying
to say " im wrong" but am i? really? whos to say what works for me,
will work for another. nothing and no one. each M/s or D/s dynamic is as
individual as those who are involved in them. be it a one on one, or a head of
house with multiple folk in the same house. be it at the same level, or in a
collar.
[15:44] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): power exchange relationship. This makes them
different from enslaved and trafficked people.
[15:45] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): Not only does
it help keep a girl out of trouble, but it also aids in keeping her grounded,
more so in her Owners absence.
[15:45] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): to get by on a day to day basis, and so this
was and is the perfect role for myself. to serve is to life. its like the very
essence of life for me, if im unable to serve in any aspect, I wither away, I
falter, lose my way on things meant to do, and that kills me. a slave needs to
be allowed to serve, and to deny him or her that burning need, is like cutting
off a hand! that may sound extreme, but its how I see and more over FEEL it.
[15:47] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): smiles at the well written info :)
[15:47] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hands Rouge her Pulitzer Prize
[15:48] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): smiles proudly
[15:48] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That was long but
utterly worth it, from a person who lives this entire live day to day, body and
soul.
[15:48] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): that was the
shortened version lol
[15:48] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol
[15:48] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): :)
[15:48] Abraham Jacobson (abrahamjacobs2 Resident): claps
[15:48] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): get a room...and a
blog! :P
[15:49] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Brianne, go ahead
with your question...Rouge, your answer has to be under 10,000 words please :P
[15:49] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): =P
[15:49] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Rouge, it seems
that owning a slave such as you requires a lot of commitment. So many choices to make for you and
directions to give. That must be
attractive to you, to know that you have such deep involvement in you life,
your existence.
[15:49] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): lol
[15:49] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): *laughs*
[15:49] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): chuckles.
[15:50] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): I'm a bossy old
fart. I love telling my girls what to
wear
[15:50] Callie Raziel (CallieRaziel Resident): Q to Rouge
[15:50] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): :)
[15:51] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): C to Rouge
[15:51] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): oh it does!
sure, like I said, I may not live with my rl Owners, but They still have a lot
of control over myself. even my finances They keep an eye on, as have had a few
bad things happen in that regard, so They do it to make sure im safe, as well
as to know whats happening with Theur property. as much as it seems a lot, to
me, it doesn't seem that way, given I do live it 24/7. to someone new looking
in from outside, they probably be like what the hell going on here
[15:52] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): go ahead Callie and
then we move on as we have a bunch of people in the queue
[15:52] Callie Raziel (CallieRaziel Resident): You mentioned
roleplaying as a submissive. Are you suggestion that one could roleplay being a
slave as a submissive to see if they like it?
[15:52] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok fine and Peaches
but then we move on lol
[15:52] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Thanks Rouge!
[15:53] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): you said:
" giving up complete control of your life to another is what you want. If
not, you may want to consider simply role-playing as a submissive." Did
you mean to use the word submissive or did you mean slave..because I dont rp
being a submissive..I emote, sharing my emotions etc, but i'm not rping being a
submissive
[15:53] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Seems both of those
questions were on the same topic
[15:53] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so go ahead please
Rouge
[15:54] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): thats one way
to try it. to dip ones toe in the waters so to speak. trying the role of a
slave here in sl is way safer than trying it in real life. yes, I jumped in
both feet, but with the situatoin I was living in at the time, many years ago,
and well before my current Owners, I felt like whats the worst that coudl
happen.
[15:55] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): I know
Mistress You don't rp it. that may have been misunderstood. like I said to
Callie, that was more aimed to those who arent sure which path they are wishing
to pursue in their D/s or M/s lives. again, some, as W/we all know purely
partake in the lifestyle in the bedroom, and are more kinksters than anything
else. hence why again sued the term role playing it.
[15:56] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I also think it's
the way we use the term "role play" in SL, which usually doesn't mean
"act something out that you don't really do"
[15:56] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it's more
"take the role on and be it and do it"
[15:56] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods
[15:56] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): mhmm. you're
better with words than I am Vanni lol
[15:57] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a degree in
Bullshit, that's why they hired me at the college :P
[15:57] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): lol
[15:57] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): ♫
rimshot ♫
[15:57] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): lol
[15:57] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): California, go figure
[15:57] Callie Raziel (CallieRaziel Resident): giggles
[15:57] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): *laughs*
[15:57] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): rouge, thank you
for all that, very insightful and as we see, your comments could spur a whole
discussion by themselves :P
[15:58] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): however we must
move on to others waiting, thanks again!
[15:58] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): welcome, and
sorry again for that lengthy post
[15:58] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Pure, you are up
please
[15:58] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): Thank you Vanni
[15:58] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): For me, the term
slave = Gor. With regard to Xaara, I have always felt that the term
"Community Slave" demonstrates the submissive's dedication TO THE
COMMUNITY, and whether or not she/he is held by a Master. Maybe I am wrong to
think that...
[15:58] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): Master Lngo is very
open and very flexible with me. BUT I dont feel I have the right to refuse, I
give myself NO RIGHT to refuse. It is not for me a question of being a slave.
It's a matter of dedication. Maitre and me do not live under the same roof RL,
but my devotion, my love for my Master is far beyond SL. Done
[15:59] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): smiles
[15:59] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): :)
[15:59] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Pats Pure on the head
[15:59] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): Turn head to look
her Master with adoration
[16:00] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): hates the very idea of refusing service. feels
her skin crawling just thinking about it
[16:00] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as far as the owned
Community Slave, I feel the Dominant in question agrees to share their charge
with the community, as long as her limits are maintained and the owner's rules
and needs come first.
[16:00] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): yes
[16:00] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (or his, excuse
me....community slaves are many genders) :)
[16:00] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): exactly.
[16:00] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): nods
[16:01] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): I needed a community
slave to cut my grass this morning :)
[16:01] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol
[16:01] Wieke Audeburgh (Wieke Audeburgh): lol
[16:01] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I could use one to
vacuum around here
[16:01] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): I hold a talk
/ ws on community slaves every couple months. gives lots of useful information
[16:01] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): damn RL TP button
dont work yet...Sorry my Master
[16:01] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): rolls eyes
[16:01] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): of course I am a
community slave to my cats, but that's a different discussion
[16:02] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Hahahah Master
Lngo
[16:02] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): lol
[16:02] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): :)
[16:02] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Cat owners are privately
owned slaves
[16:02] Dee Wolfe
(Diana Wolfe): nods to Master
Ballard
[16:02] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): between the lot of
them I have a lot of Dominants :P
[16:02] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): n oone told
loki then, my Master lol
[16:02] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you Pure,
excellent comment!
[16:02] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): WE move to smexy
Brianne with a question
[16:02] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): thank you,
Smexy!
[16:03] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Last time I
pestered a witch for answers, I got turned into a newt!
[16:03] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Vanni we are
slaves to our animals and cats know that they are the Masters/Mistress of our
lives.
[16:03] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): ♫
rimshot ♫
[16:03] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): *laughs*
[16:04] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone can answer,
no need to put in a C..in fact, don't please
[16:04] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): it does! high
protocol and being a slave do go hand in hand.
[16:04] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): :)
[16:04] Andy Rocker (Andyrocker Resident): nods
[16:04] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Bri - in my play room, I treat sall 'guests' as I
might treat a slave. High protocol does
not mean slave, it is structure.
[16:04] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods
[16:04] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): nods to Master
Ballarad
[16:04] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): yes my
Master
[16:05] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): Ballard*
[16:05] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): tpe
[16:05] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have talked about
my friend who runs a Starbucks and is a RL 24/7 slave to her Master. They don't have a lot of day to day high
protocol, she just does everything and even has to wait until he says "you
can sit on the couch" to sit there.
But she's very happy with the setup as she gets to let go from making
decisions all days which cost her so much energy.
[16:05] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): But Sir, that is
in the play room. I think a slave is
ALWAYS high protocol, where a sub may be more relaxed at tiumes
[16:06] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Yes, there is truth in
that
[16:06] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): yes the high
protocol side can be used in different settings, but for me, its part of who
and what I am.
[16:06] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods to Vanni
[16:06] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): definitely!
[16:06] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): nods
[16:06] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): People seems lost
as soon we talk about protocol. That not mean a sub or "slave" cant
have the same rules
[16:07] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): ok....
[16:07] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): so what I'm
hearing is that constant High Protocol is not useful in determining a slave or
sub. Oh well.
[16:08] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it might be a
marker for some, not for all
[16:08] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods in agreement
[16:08] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): agrees
[16:08] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): good question,
let's move on
[16:08] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Candice you are up
please
[16:08] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): thank you
Vanni, for me coming from Gor, i learned the aspects of a slave and tried to
fit in, coming to Xaara was the best thing i did, i found the true submissive
me, realized consent and sane, was hard to come to terms with in the beginning,
my heart is fully submissive, it was a long battle defining the 2, i found and
can be the real me here without shame. #
[16:08] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yay!
[16:09] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): funny how almost
all of us say "the best thing I did is come to Xaara...." almost like
this is a really good, worthwhile place :P
[16:09] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (of course it is ;)
)
[16:09] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): go figure :)
[16:09] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): turned and winked at Candi, remembering that
difficult transition
[16:09] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): huh, imagine
that
[16:09] Nikki Naughty Irelund (Brigid Huntress): applauds
[16:09] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): looks at his watch, waiting for Vanni to tell
him what his opinion is.....
[16:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol
[16:10] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): applogies for long
response - 2 parts
[16:10] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): oops
[16:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): excellent comment
thanks Candice!
[16:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now, go ahead
please Sir Lngo :)
[16:11] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): on the D/s spectrum
[16:11] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): To me the term slave
can have negative perception as it can mean an individual who has absolutely no
rights and can be bought and sold (as in the history of chattel slavery in
prior centuries and still exits today).
For me in the context of BDSM, it denotes a level of
deepness on the D/s scale. Someone who
might be high on the slave spectrum desires very little negotiation and implies
an openess to do all as their Dominant desires or Demands, including very
brutal methods of play ( on the S/m spectrum) and day-to-day actions which may
sometimes include complete isolation to reinforce complete control. I believe a slave desires, hungers for
someone to take a very deep and complete control of their life for them at many
levels.. Day to day... Hour to hour... minute by minute.
Perhaps my answer is better couched in the question what
attracts me to submissives?... the act of submission to me is a gift of
love. Someone who surrenders to my
desires, dreams and is ready to respond to what I express and the world I wish
to build. As a Dominant I am in control
of myself - and wish to spread my control beyond into the world around me. A submissive is one who joins in my dreams -
becomes a part of my world that I create - basks and thrives in the glory of it
- and becomes an active amazing part of it.
S/m spectrum is a seperate .. but inextricabely related topic
as D/s and S/m weave together. They are
neither the same thing - nor are the seperate.
Its a weave of the glorious basket we call BDSM.
[16:11] Nikki Naughty Irelund (Brigid Huntress): nods
[16:12] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): :)
[16:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All very well said,
Sir!
[16:12] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Sir, I think you
make a great point with the word 'spectrum'
[16:12] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): nods
[16:12] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): indeed
[16:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes indeed
[16:12] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): *laughs*
[16:12] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): jinx Vanni
[16:12] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): lol
[16:12] Kaneha (Kaneha Atheria): thinks about the world-building aspects and
nods in agreement with Sir Lngo
[16:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): grins "But that's my word, Master, I say
it all the time!" :P
[16:13] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): searches the
mud pit
[16:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): also prepares a phenomenological treatise on
slavery in the BDSM world.
[16:13] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): again?
[16:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): someone has to dear
[16:14] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): true true
[16:14] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Sir Lngo!
[16:14] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go back to
Master Ballard please
[16:14] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): I find the difference to
me is perhaps more subtle. In dealing
with a submissive, whether outside my own chain or within Xaara, I will be
polite, and ask. I do this universally
with all submissives here, even if they are wearing a community slave tag. That is because in order to treat a slave as
I treat a slave, I need to have that prior negotiation and discussion. Not everyone that wears the tag is a slave in
the way I perceive it. ALL submissives
wish to serve, and they feel the fire.
All submissives wish to know they are wanted.
[16:14] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): reaches his arm around and casually slaps
Rouge hard across the face. He watches
her as he speaks. "With a slave
there is no ask. There is power, taken
and exerted. I command a slave. She yields and does not question. If I order her to stand and strip, she will
do so without question. If I order her
to suck a dick (any dick), she will. We
have had the talks, the negotiations.
She knows my meaning of slavery, and she accepts it."
[16:15] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): WOW!
[16:15] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): nods
[16:15] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Sir, that was a
great answer to my question.
[16:15] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Well said
[16:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And the key point
is "the talks, the negotiations"
[16:15] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): agrees
[16:15] Kaneha (Kaneha Atheria): It has to be two-way,
doesn't it? Each side MUST understand the other thoroughly.
[16:15] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Consent
[16:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): An M/s dynamic
means the Master/Mistress KNOWS where to go with the power. It's not illegitmate power, it's legitimate
and real and controlled.
[16:16] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods at Kaneha
[16:16] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): had been sitting idly listening to the
conversatoins about herself, then bang, she was slaped rigth across the face.
taking a deep breath, she looked to her Master, eyes respectfully lowered. 2
thank You, my Master" voice loud enough for Him to hear, as she kept her
staqnce, not faltering. many a year hses had to practice such, having no clue
when He or another may do such to her
[16:16] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Beautiful
[16:17] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): :)
[16:17] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): :)
[16:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You for that
example, Master Ballard!
[16:17] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): I would note that her
emote was a requirement of our dynamic.
If I act, I require a response.
And all of mine are eager to provide such a response.
[16:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): grins
[16:18] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): nodded, smiling
[16:18] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): yes my
Master
[16:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You Master
:")
[16:18] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): grins to herself, a slow nod in agreement,
cheek still burning and stinging from the slap a moment ago
[16:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok we have two more
comments
[16:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Aspen you are up
please
[16:18] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Thank you
Vanni,
[16:18] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): hours of my day. Yes, I have no master but I
keep all of the dominates who has mentor me here in Xaara and in SL. and
in my mind as my masters to keep me to
where I am now. In real. I only have had two who calls themselves
dominates/master.but they don't come close. So they become Friends with
Benefits. I do need that structure, and high protocol in my life SL and Real
life to keep me balanced. It is hard when you have to do it on your own
sometimes. I am really trying to find my
submissive self here a little at a time as
I am learning and learning. Thank
you everyone how has been with me on my path.
[16:20] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): we love you
aspen..and your mic is open love
[16:20] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Sorry Did not
know
[16:20] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): busy writing
my post and not paying attention. Please forgive me.
[16:20] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): no worries love
[16:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): smiles at Aspen
[16:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All very well said
Aspen
[16:22] Wieke Audeburgh (Wieke Audeburgh): smiles and nods at Aspen
[16:22] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Thank you
Vanni throwing kisses and hugs.
[16:22] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): being a
community slave doesn't mean you are an actual slave. its just one of many ways
to show others your dedication to Xaara, and your willingness to serve. that
drive, that burn. sure, some of us are slaves, some I know are submissives, but
are also cs at the same time. nothing wrong in that. if it fills a need or that
person, then so be it. be who you are, and never let anyone try and change you.
if a slave, great, if a submissive, great also. only you can answer 100% as to
what you are. if someone isn't sure, as a result of tag swapping, let them ask,
and do your best to explain it to them
[16:22] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): gives Aspen a side hug
[16:23] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): agrees each
to own choice
[16:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Limits always apply
Aspen
[16:23] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Agreed. Thus my statement that a tag is not enough to
decide what you may do with someone.
Negotiate each time.
[16:23] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): OMG thank you
Rouge and Brianne
[16:23] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Yes Master
Ballard and thank you.
[16:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also we've used the
term "spectrum" here. Vanni
the sociologist doesn't believe in strict binaries in anything relating to
humans. Everything is up to
interpretation and as humans are dynamic, that changes all the time, sometimes
day to day.
[16:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So
"bottom........sub........slave" is a matter of how a person defines
it in their own lives and with others
[16:25] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): absolutely
[16:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): in that context
[16:25] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): agrees
[16:25] Nikki Naughty Irelund (Brigid Huntress): nods
[16:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): There you go Master
RB :P
[16:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Aspen!
[16:25] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): Thank you, Vanni-love
:)
[16:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Callie has waited
patiently so please go ahead Callie
[16:26] Callie Raziel (CallieRaziel Resident): Thank you
Vanni. I was waiting on someone to use the C-word (thank you Candice) and the
N-word (thank you Sir Ballard)... Consent and Negotiations. I have always felt
that the biggest difference between slaves and submissives is the frequency and
use of these two. Negotiations happen in the beginning for a slave for the
length of time decided and consent is given then for that period of time, while
it is an ongoing process, almost daily if not more often, between a submissive
and Dominant. I have been with my Dominant for almost 6 months now, and the
longer we are together, the more slave-like I feel, as Sir Lngo described. I
have granted Him blanket consent and expressed that safewords are in place for
a reason. We have very little negotiations these days as I feel the deepest
desires to please him in all ways, in all that I do. Plus, it helps that He and
I are so much on the same page that we have constant jinxes and similar thought
patterns, so negotiations feel unnecessary. #
[16:26] Callie Raziel (CallieRaziel Resident): I so didn't
mean to whisper. *giggles*
[16:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): still got it :P
[16:27] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): c @ Callie
[16:27] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Callie, I think
that is a brilliant summary
[16:27] Kaneha (Kaneha Atheria): It really is
[16:27] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): very good
[16:27] Callie Raziel (CallieRaziel Resident): smiles bashfully. "Thank you."
[16:27] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): applauds Callie
[16:27] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): nodded.."with my Master..I feel the same
way, Callie"
[16:27] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): so well said Callie
[16:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and I agree...my
personal take is that a sub can call "time out" at any time and say
"we need to talk." A slave can
still ask for re-negotiation, but they have to **ask**, they can't call the
time out. But a reasonable Dominant will
still want to hear them and make considerations on their needs, with the Dom getting
that decision of coruse.
[16:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's me, Y/your
mileage may vary
[16:28] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): yes
[16:29] Callie Raziel (CallieRaziel Resident): smiles over to Peaches and nod to Vanni.
[16:29] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): I love this aspect of the
Xaara culture. Never assume, there is no
implied consent. So I sometimes will ask
in open chat. "Aspen, may I touch
you?" This makes it clear that I'm
not creeping out in IMs, I am being open and clear. Say yes or no, as you wish, but the question
was asked BEFORE I touched. That is
essential. If I then grab your ass,
well, I had permission! #
[16:29] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Nods in agreement
[16:29] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): mhmm. I ask at
times if can speak freely both with my rl Owners and my Master and Mistress
here. some times its just to chew the fat, but others, its about concerns /
struggles I may have, and need Their help and advice on. not always to do with
the dynamic itself.
[16:29] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): ^ ^
[16:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Exactly
Master. In my RL community, we don't
even hug anyone unless there is implicit permission (like I hug people I know
who want to be hug, I'd never try to hug a new person)
[16:30] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): I'll hug you Vanni
[16:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yay!
[16:30] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): lol
[16:30] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): C'mon, giant
group hug!!
[16:30] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Giggling and
wiggling to Master Ballard. "Yes Master you have my consent."
[16:30] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): then spank...
[16:31] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): *•.¸('*•.¸ ♥
¸.•*´)¸.•*
[16:31] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): .•*♥´¨`• AMAZING •´¨`♥*•.
[16:31] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): ¸.•*(¸.•*´ ♥
`*•.¸)`*•.¸
[16:31] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): that's been a
wonderful discussion Vanni
[16:32] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): What a great
session!
[16:32] Pure Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): Take care Master
Ballard
[16:32] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Thank you
Vanni.
[16:32] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Thank you Vanni
and E/everyone!
[16:32] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): awesome
discussion Vanni :)
[16:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank Y/you all
very much for this discussion! I am so
glad we can approach this sanely, respectfully and learn from each other.
[16:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Next
week..."The Brat!"
