[15:07] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Alrighty let's go ahead and get started!
[15:08] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!
[15:08] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Before I open the discussion, let me post the usual header: Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q. If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"
[15:08] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top
[15:09] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open. Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[15:09] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): While we are a chatty group, lots of extra chat makes it "noisy," so if we can please keep that to a minimum, it would be very appreciated, thank Y/you!
[15:09] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The blog for this munch is: https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/ It holds the archive for our munches here starting Jan 3, 2021.
[15:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today's topic is based on one we hear a lot in SL: "The best Dom/meinants are the ones that were submissives before."
[15:11] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think I lost count using my hair how many times I've heard that concept.
[15:11] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The theory goes that a Dom/meinant who experienced time as a collared sub "gets" the submissive role much better. The idea that "experience is the best teacher" is the expressed concept.
[15:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Less commonly but at times, we also hear that a sub is in a better position if they spent time first as a Dom/meinant, as they will understand the role of the Dom/me better, and know how both sides work equally (in theory).
[15:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Others will counter that as the roles of Dom/meinant and Submissive flow from something within, none of that is really necessary. It is good to understand the other side, but it doesn't make one "better" in that regard.
[15:14] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now,one thing, I'm not talking about "switches" here, people that flow back and forth between roles. I'm asking if having prior experience on the other side of the collar makes a person more adept at handling their role as a sub or a Dom/meinant.
[15:14] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We will actually discuss switching next week.
[15:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So, what are the thoughts of the August Assembly? Does "prior experience" on the other side of the collar help, or is that not really necessary to be a fabulous Dom/meinant or sub?
[15:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We'll start with Master RB when You are ready, Master.
[15:16] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): While I agree wholeheartedly that having some better understanding of the 'other side' is very valuable, in both directions, it can be a difficult and frustrating thing to attempt, unless one has, in fact, some 'switchiness' in ones makeup. Finally, as always, bringing 'better' and 'worse' into such a discussion is a quick way to bedlam and unnecessary argumentation. #
[15:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree, Master! I think "better" is always a subjective qualifier.
[15:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I also agree that trying to force oneself into a role that one isn't really connected to can cause more problems than bring about solutions.
[15:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent start, thank You Master :)
[15:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Ani, please!
[15:18] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): I can say yes on this because my Dom/me actually has experienced both sides of the slash, and he at first learned the submissive view with a Dom/meme. I did ask him in regards of what was the hardest part for him, learning that, and he told me since he is Dom/me and assertive by nature that was the most difficult for him, and trying to shut his mouth and let his Dom/meme be the go to in his voice that was the hardest part. He is one to stand up for himself, and so at times he did get disciplined by her yes. But he said it was different, but glad to learn it, because he is a bit hardheaded by nature.
[15:19] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): #
[15:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So He feels that in getting that training he's better able to see how the submissive role works?
[15:20] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): Correct
[15:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Great!
[15:20] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): In knowing and understanding me
[15:20] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): and himself
[15:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What is of value to oneself is always good.
[15:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That sounds so Buddha like
[15:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I did see the red glow of enlightenment last night *cough*
[15:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Ani!
[15:21] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): laughs out loud
[15:22] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok Rouge, we have the mic on and the no-doz on IV drip, the floor is yours!
[15:22] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): Koffee is so fun the morning after Vanni's done ... stuff.
[08:22] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα: thanks vanni,
this can be a bit of a mine field for some, and others not so much. all depends on 1-how hey view the lifestyle to begin with, and 2- how they see themselves within their respective position within it.
now some may agree, some may think im talking out of a hole in my ass, but all I can say is how I see things.
there may be merit to it for some, yes for instance, in Gor, many a Free woman went to the collar, as They found it difficult being Free, and also, some Owners would free Their slaves, and said slave actually thrived more in such a role. now, when those that had been freed from slavery were, it was usually to partner with their Owner, to have kids etc. it wasn't a case of collar off and off they went.
with the Free Women who went to the collar, again in itself there was processes that had to be followed. much to some folks disliking. but rules are rules.
in this life, be it here in sl or in real life, I have crossed paths with both, and usually they tend not to settle in one
[15:22] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): role or the other, and more often than not they are in fact switches.
for myself though, I know in my heart of hearts, I could never ever be in charge of anyone. hell, I struggle just to be in charge of myself.
for me, it doesn't matter what the other has done or been,( within reason of course. not wanting a mass murderer after all! ) the main thing to me is that they are true to me, and more over, true to themselves! no point trying to walk a path they feel like crap in, cause that only serves to make life miserable for all concerned. #
[15:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Spot on, Rouge!
[15:23] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): applauds
[15:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): My comment is simply the first line in my profile: γνῶθι σαυτόν -- "Know Thyself." Delphic maxim
[15:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If one doesn't know themselves, everything else is pretty much an illusion
[15:24] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): exactly
[15:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and I love how you expressed that so well.
[15:24] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): you know me. wear my heart on my sleeve, and say it as I see it
[15:25] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): ^ ^
[15:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Keep that going :")
[15:25] Misa McGregor (Misabright Resident): c
[15:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok we have a big queue so we are moving on thanks so much Rouge!
[15:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Aoife, you are up please!
[15:25] Aoife McGregor (Aoife McGregor): Thank you Vanni. I believe that D/s is like any other endeavor or craft we choose to pursue in our lives. To be good at anything requires practice, training and experience. A Doctor doesn't decide one day he (or she) is a doctor because he (or she) says they are. "I am Surgeon, bow before thee!. They only get to say that after years of training. I know i sure wouldn't want someone to hop in the Pilot seat of the airplane that i am on, without having put in the hours to do that job. Same is true of our given roles. Ego should not guide any Dom/me or sub, but rather a spirit of learning - from each other - and a dash of humility never hurt anyone.
This concept, historically, is not a new one in BDSM. Many in the Leather communities had earned their titles by starting at the bottom. Everyone started in the same place.
I certainly dont think it hurt anyone i have ever met who came up the ranks in BDSM who learned both sides of the slash. I dont think it is required that Dom/me be a sub first or
[15:25] Aoife McGregor (Aoife McGregor): visa-versa, but it sure can't hurt. That being said, we can have lots of knowledge, but never apply it. #
[15:26] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): yes!
[15:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm glad you brought up the Leather Community, because that is spot on how it works. EVERYONE starts in the position of slave
[15:27] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Well said
[15:27] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And to become a Master (which is a gender-neutral title in the community, regardless of gender) one literally starts at the bottom.
[15:28] Ema (Ema1983 Resident): i kinda think the slave is the top but there you go lol
[15:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And no knowledge hurts, rather "All knowledge is useful"
[15:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said, thanks Aoife! :)
[15:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lypi, you are up please!
[15:29] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): smiles, "Thanks Vanni"
[15:29] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): I know the leather community and "old guard" do things this way, It's nice to have someone that knows what a flogger, or a whip, or any implement actually feels like before they go using it on someone else. I know I'm a better rope bottom because I know how to tie - do I prefer to be a rope bottom? Yes. Does me knowing how to tie and other ropey things make me a Top? No.
But I sure as heck will trust someone more if they even have just a little bit of experience on the "other side". #
[15:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Bringing up rope is a good point, Lypi.
[15:30] PaulaDurant (PaulaDurant Resident): nods in agreement
[15:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Knowing someone has been tied, and has had knots and style explained to them, might make the person being tied be at ease.
[15:31] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed, from experience *ahem*..you start in rope by having someone tie you up to show how it's done, how to get knots out fast, and what you need around as safety (such as scissors)
[15:31] Arella McGregor (Arella4 Resident): Gets a floaty, smiley look ...
[15:31] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): giggles
[15:31] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): nods
[15:31] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I agree that for at least some, there is that experience as teacher that helps.
[15:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Lypi, great contribution and so nice seeing you here today!
[15:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok we move on to Blondie....you're up!
[15:32] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Thank you, Vanni. :)
[15:32] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): From what I've experienced, gaining a submissive's perspective may be useful as heck but I don't think it's strictly neccessary. Some people are just naturally Dom/meinant. They often gain great knowledge and skill by observing their submissive's reactions, and that is often enough. I think Dom/meination is a talent, not only learned, and varies so greatly from D to D that a blanket statement about "The best Dom/meinants are the ones that were submissives before" may be too broad. But many of you have brought up great points about direct experience. #
[15:34] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): nodded. "Master Ballard doesnt have a submissive bone in is dic...body!"
[15:34] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): smiles
[15:34] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): nods vigorously
[15:34] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): *laughs*
[15:34] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): and we once again miss Ballard Peaches :)
[15:34] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I wonder, Brianne, and I'd like your or anyone else's opinion on this...is there a difference between prior experience topping and prior experience being a sub in a D/s sense? I think there is. I know how to top because all the toys I have in my bag have pretty much been used on me in some form. But I'm not sure if that applies to D/s with are intrinsic roles rather than actions taken in a scene.
[15:35] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): gosh, now that you mention it, there proabably is an important distinction there.
[15:35] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): c @ vanni
[15:35] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): go ahead lypi
[15:35] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or anyone else, it's an open question
[15:36] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): I see it like that, I can *top* in rope, but I'm a submissive through and through.. I can't Dom/meinate a person, it's not in me. I top rope because I like rope.. and making pretty things.. lol
[15:37] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): ^ ^
[15:37] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): grins at Lypi
[15:37] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): ive said it before, and will say it again " can't Master anyone else, if unable to Master ones self. " even when comes to those in a collar. some can and do pay lip service to the role, others, like myself and many more, live and breath it. its just who and what we are. its natural! same with many Masters/Mistresses. its in Their nature. They know what They need to do and not do, in order to be affective in the arrangement They are in. same with those in the collar.
[15:37] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love watching the riggers, it's really an art form
[15:37] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Good Point Rouge - about Mastering Oneself !
[15:37] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nods at Rouge
[15:38] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): (has a rope class coming.. heh)
[15:38] Daelenie McMillan (Daelenie McMillan): to thine own self be true
[15:38] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): I really would love to go to a rope class irl
[15:39] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods nods
[15:39] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): my RL community has a class one Sunday a month
[15:39] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It used to be called "Tie or Be Tied" or something
[15:39] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyway thanks Brianne, Rouge and Lypi!
[15:39] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): :)
[15:39] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): to tie or to be tied..THAT is the question!
[15:39] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's move on
[15:40] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sir Lngo, You are up please!
[15:40] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): This validates much of what has been said - but it is a reflection of my personal path
[15:40] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Many of you know I spent a number of years as a male sub. I was not a switch - I fully embraced my role and served several Mistresses. Most of whom are still freinds.
I am not sure that it is the BEST way, it is A way.. But not the only way. Upon self reflection, I needed to go this route to resolve doubt and uncertainty in my heart and soul. I also do not think it is for everyone.
For me, the benefits have been validation and full confidence in who I am.. All the doubt and uncertainty are gone. I have my own goals, my own vision and I know how to acomplish them. I am on a very good path.
But I also gained a deep understanding of what it means to ache and yearn to serve another. The effects of S/m on the D/s side of things. A better understanding of what a submissive aches, longs for, yearns for and desires.
For me I am a better Dom/me for it. Mainly because I learned what it means to be in complete control of myself. So I can bring control to others around me.
[15:40] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): I have come full circle and KNOW that I am a Dom/meinant, in my own way on my own path.
[15:41] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): wow. YAY!
[15:41] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): applauds
[15:41] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): <3
[15:41] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): applauds
[15:41] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): sniffles
[15:41] Čıʀıcє (ItsCirice Resident): ♥
[15:41] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's fantastic Sir Lngo!
[15:41] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): That would make a great movie.
[15:41] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Thank you all
[15:41] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): grins
[15:41] Sylvie Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): turn head to look her Master with admiration
[15:41] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): not the only way ---- A way
[15:41] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): Well said, Sir Lngo
[15:42] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): beautiful..thank you for sharing that Sir
[15:42] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And see I've gone the opposite road -- I've tried to be a Dom/meinant (as opposed to a Top)...and it's just never gone well. I am a fierce, Sadistic Top but after that, I'm not very controlling. I'd rather make the bottom dinner or something (Master Laz thinks that just hilarious for some reason...)
[15:43] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said, and that is a great encapsulation of what we are discussing here Sir! Thank You!
[15:44] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's move on to Sir Ictinus please
[15:44] Ictinus (Ictinus Resident): All the time I tryed hard to understand a sub/slave and I never imagine being one, there has to be another way to know their happiness, feelings. I can't and I don't want to imagine myself being a sub, I never was. I believe the best is to communicate, to talk a lot to understand each other. As we are different I believe every single person has to choose, decide how can be his/her own way.
[15:44] Ictinus (Ictinus Resident): # done
[15:44] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nods
[15:44] Daelenie McMillan (Daelenie McMillan): You don't Have to be Sir. Many do not and turn out to be fine Dom/meinants. It is a matter of communication though
[15:45] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Well said Ictunus - agreed
[15:45] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Everyone comes to knowledge different ways. Both You and Sir Lngo expressed that well, Sir.
[15:45] Čıʀıcє (ItsCirice Resident): nods
[15:45] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods
[15:45] Ema (Ema1983 Resident): nods com's is key :)x.
[15:45] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As long as each side is trying to understand the other, it's all good.
[15:45] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You for that Sir!
[15:46] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok Aspen, you are up!
[15:46] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Thank you Vanni,
I have heard the same as you as the best Dom/meinant are the ones who has tryed being the submissive . A good Dom/meinant has been a sub or at lease a bottom sometime. This is why he knows what it feels emotional and how the sub in reading body language is so much better being a sub. Now Master RB brings up that you have to have a kinda of a switch side to really feel what the Dom/meinant of the power he has for his bottom/sub that he know just the right combination and to push the boundaries when needed.
I was in Gor like Rouge and Peaches for 3.5 years and had seen Free women go on the other side of the leach because they wanted the feeling of really wanting to be owned by that Master and under his TPE. It is the same here. Looking at all of us subs here and in our hearts wanting the same. This is why The Dom/me/Top has to be on the other side to be a good Master in the long run. You are right Vanni about where do you really learn how to use rope and how to tie up. Yes, we have Rope bits where
[15:46] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): the Dom/mes can learn how to do it. It is how many true good workshops shows the training. I have not seen to many workshops for Dom/meinants here at Xaara. Which I think for them to gain their Dom/me Tags and Master Tag to have a path like the Angels do. My feelings. Rouge is right and it is First you find yourself and know yourself inside and out then adventure on I try to be good with the heart of a sub/slave.#
[15:49] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm pretty sure, Aspen, that the path to Master or Mistress or Adept is pretty much the same in terms of what's learned as what Angels and Seraph go through, just obviously keyed to the D-Type side
[15:49] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That said I do appreciate your comments, you touched on many of the topics brought up here :)
[15:50] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And next week will be swtiching so we'll see what the August Assembly has to say about that *grins*
[15:50] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): snerks
[15:50] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Smiling back to Vanni
[15:51] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Aspen!
[15:51] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move on to Ema please!
[15:51] Ema (Ema1983 Resident): ty Vanni from the cheap seats at the back grinz ............waves to Sir RB
[15:51] Ema (Ema1983 Resident): i would like to say .. that being in a role dose not necessarily mean you learn any thing about that role we all know Dom/meinants and submissives who have been in role for years and are still no closer to being either a Dom/meinant or a submissive it is all about growing so what i would say is .... that a good Dom/meinanat dose tend to have some submissive tendencies ( and when i say tendencies i do not mean that they wish to be submissive ) and That is what gives them empathy rather than trying the other side sorry my comments are a bit "dated " in this convo we seem to have got on to roping mmmmmmmm eyes glaze over a little oh !! ty and finished #
[15:52] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): applauds Ema's comment
[15:52] Ema (Ema1983 Resident): curtsies graciously, "Good evening."
[15:52] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): I pre-wrote and now wonder if half of it should be saved for next week. ;)
[15:52] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): smiles
[15:52] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've taken acting classes (if you can believe that) and there is definitely a difference between "acting out" your role and "becoming the role."
[15:52] Ema (Ema1983 Resident): looks up at Sir ... ty :)
[15:53] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone can memorize and mouth lines
[15:53] Sylvie Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): nods
[15:53] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): nods firmly at Vanni
[15:53] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but to make the role your own you have to really internalize it
[15:53] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): I agree with you on that Vanni and the better the role play is.
[15:53] Rachel Reid (ReddyPlayerOne Resident): As Harrison Ford once said to George Lucas: "You can write this shit, George, but you can't say it."
[15:53] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): lol!
[15:53] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Spot on Rachel!
[15:53] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): LOL
[15:54] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Very true
[15:54] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The lines were written but he MADE Han Solo come alive
[15:54] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): we had a saying in retail when worked in it years ago " own your customer!" know what they want, and that way can better serve them. same in a sense can be applied to this life, on either side of the leash.
[15:54] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I think Ema that applies to what you said.
[15:54] Ema (Ema1983 Resident): mm yes :)X
[15:55] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and very well said, thanks so much!
[15:55] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This is why I drag myself out of bed at 7:15am on a Sunday morning, because we all learn so much from each other here
[15:56] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Ema!
[15:56] Ema (Ema1983 Resident): welcome :) and ty
[15:56] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move on to Sylvie please!
[15:56] Sylvie Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): For my part, I know that it would be impossible for me to explore or experience the world of Dom/meinants. It's just not in my nature. However, I had long discussions about this in my first life with my previous Master. I'm not claiming that a Dom/meinant who has experienced the sub side is better. I don't think it's a necessity to explore both sides of the leash. It all depends on who you are on the inside, on your personal needs. I know from experience. Master Lngo is more open to sharing what He feels, to listening to me. He is aware that we are only human, that we are not perfect. I feel great respect from Him for who I am. And I respect the MAN He is. I'm not saying his experience made Him a better man, a better Dom/meinant. It's in Him, and that's how it is. But the fact of exploring the submissive side allows Him to be able to better understand me and offer me all the support I need to be better myself. Each path is personal and the important thing is to be yourself. #
[15:57] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said!
[15:57] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods enthusiastically
[15:57] Sylvie Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): blushes
[15:58] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): Oh, yes. ㋡
[15:58] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In my opinion, the worst thing I ever hear in the BDSM Community, First or Second Life is "You're doing it wrong."
[15:58] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): ugh
[15:58] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So it's really just rude to take MY views on things and impose them on others.
[15:58] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): yes!
[15:58] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I can have an opinion, but that's where it ends,with me.
[15:58] Čıʀıcє (ItsCirice Resident): yep
[15:58] Sylvie Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): nods
[15:59] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So right on Sylvie, however anyone comes to a better appreciation of our art and our lifestyle, so much the better.
[15:59] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Smiles at Syvlie :)
[15:59] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And we just accept that how others learn or do things is their path and their experience. So much the better.
[16:00] Ictinus (Ictinus Resident): Time to go for a walk..is a nice experience with you all here :). See you all next time :)
[16:00] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): will NOT start a lecture on learning styles and active learning *puts powerpoint away(
[16:00] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): hah, Professor Vanni
[16:00] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol talk about something deep seeded coming out :P
[16:00] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much Sylvie, great contribution!
[16:00] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Is PowerPoint a new BDSM too ? hmmmm
[16:01] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): LOL maybe some of us need that power point Vanni. LOL
[16:01] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move on to Paula please
[16:01] PaulaDurant (PaulaDurant Resident): Thank you Vanni, I believe Some tend to confuse S/m practices to D/s.....i dont believe that learning how to place needles will make me a better Dom/meinant or Sub....but it will make me be Risk Aware in the practices i enjoy. Dom/meinance and Submission i dont believe can be taught as it is a feeling it might help to intellectually understand Dom/meinance and Submission if studied but feelings cant be taught. S/m practices however should be studied by both sides before practicing, its healthy by both sides to know the dangers and how to practice those safely. This is my opinion anyway I might have lost a bit of the discussion, hope it makes sense :) #
[16:01] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes!
[16:01] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): bingo
[16:02] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): good
[16:02] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): exactly!
[16:02] Sylvie Delvalle (Pureperle Anton): nods
[16:02] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): that made me think. ow.
[16:02] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): well said paula
[16:02] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Actually I was just talking to someone last night at the First Life club about this...why do we like this lifestyle so much?
[16:02] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): Well said, Paula.
[16:02] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Nine Paula
[16:03] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And the answer was "Who the f*ck knows? We just do." But we have to learn to do it as safe as possible.
[16:03] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The inner core that leads to it....is personal.
[16:03] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so yes, S/M acts are learned and enjoyed but I agree that D/s comes from some deeper, personal core.
[16:03] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): How true.
[16:03] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And you hit the nail on the head with that, Paula.
[16:04] PaulaDurant (PaulaDurant Resident): Thank you glad it made sense to more than just my head :)
[16:04] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee
[16:04] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said, thanks!
[16:07] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): This is in a notecard, so I'm going to piece this in local, it's long.
[16:07] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): If there is one thing I wish I knew at times is to understand the Dom/me aspect of things. I didn't have prior knowledge or training in BDSM or kink. I didn't even know what it was at first. All I knew is that I was an odd person, and people thought of me as such. I felt I didn't belong anywhere really. In due time I tried to find myself by myself as the case may be. I have been independent all my life, and that is how my mom has taught me. My mom is I guess what you can call the alpha in my life. She didn't want people to trample over me, or take advantage over me. In a way that ship has sailed, and I have dealt with that, and have learned from it. Trying to know and understand one's self is one of the keys of being; in my case I have fallen down so many times, and there were times I didn't know how to get back up. The reason why my mom wanted me to be independent was because it's a dog eat dog world out there, and even though I was an only child, my matter of how I was brought up was different then maybe all
[16:08] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): of you in this room.
I have had my share of bad experiences in both SL and outside of the virtual world. That did make me evolve as a person, however with that being said I don't consider myself a Dom/me mainly because of how I am as a person. I'm an empath, I care about people, I'm a leader and a follower, people rely on me. Heck, I even get people that ask for me personally at my job. In world experiences makes you grow over time, and over life. Makes you a better person, or more human as you will.
[16:08] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): At times I have always thought that maybe I would find someone that would understand me as whom I am. In my first long term relationships it was painful; partially because they didn't care and it was about them, and not me. I felt defeated in a way, and thought maybe I thought maybe I was better off with them, and should just be a veggie or slave like they wanted; because they bend the rules, seeing as they deemed fit. I thought I was the issue, I thought maybe I needed to understand their side of things. But as I said before my inner core is a sub, I may act Dom/me at times, because of all I stated [along with me being part Italian, and we use hand gestures alot], but I care too much. #
[16:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love all that Ani
[16:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol
[16:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): One thing I love seeing in the Klatch is how people talk about their personal growth
[16:11] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We all becomes something new, and talking about those experiences can open doorways for others
[16:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ani, the fact you have grown and connected to this community is really a joy to see.
[16:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Lysana...did you want to go ahead or save your comment for next week Ly?
[16:13] Lypi DragonЯose (Lypi Hollyberry): smiles
[16:13] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): Half of it works for now.
[16:13] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): I've subbed to people who were trained "Old Guard" style, AKA "serve as a sub first" as well as people who weren't. I have had good and bad experiences with both. The best I've known regardless of training learned humility and how to treat others with dignity and respect. That is a big key to me. If they train in any fashion only to know what it's like to work with the treatment they want to give, they risk becoming nothing more than a skilled jackass if they started as an unskilled one. #
[16:13] Ani Halcyon (HachikoOkami Resident): <3
[16:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): YES!
[16:14] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): smiles and nods to Lysana
[16:14] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It goes back to the acting...mouthing lines vs living one's role.
[16:14] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): That sound right Lysana
[16:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone can wield a crop or a flogger or give orders
[16:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): doing it *right* takes both skill and inner essence
[16:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said Ly!
[16:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I look forward to the other half next week :)
[16:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Peaches darling, you are up please!
[16:17] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): ok..i was going to save this for next week but i have more to say about next weeks discussion so I'm going to share this now since vanni said she likes sharing our personal growth journeys..so..All I can really speak to is my experience in 2nd life. I've never had a Dom/me in !st life, I've just scened with a few. But here in SL, I began as a sub when a Dom/me guided me into understanding that I am a natural submissive (even though I have Dom/meinant desires when a male is submissive to me). And, as those of you who know me, know that it was Gor that helped me embrace my submissive nature.
But it was also Gor, that revealed my ability to switch. My Gorean Master released me, making me a Free Woman, no longer a slave, because only Free Women could give birth to a Free person. Yes, a slave could give birth, but her off spring would be born into slavery.
So I owned male slaves, as a Free Women, yet all the while, in private, I was always my Master's slave.
I think my experience on both sides of the leash gave me a very useful and revealing understanding of each. I feel a bit like i have a split personality, except, I'm always a submissive to Dom/meinants, so I believe that is my true nature. More on the switching next week!
[16:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That makes perfect sense Peaches!
[16:19] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): and still my Mistress to this day!
[16:19] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): dipped her head, lowering her eyes.. "thank you, Vanni"
[16:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As a sociologist, I reject the notion that humans are "binary" in any way at all. Everything exists on some kind of a spectrum
[16:19] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): reached over and squeezed Rouge's knee
[16:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I see nothing amiss with you being "most submissive" but enjoying Dom/meinance over subby males
[16:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or Rouge
[16:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or a lamp if that worked :P
[16:20] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): lol
[16:20] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): ...subby boys are so cuuuuuute...
[16:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think it comes back to what we have said here, "know thyself"
[16:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And how one comes to that knowledge is their own personal journey
[16:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so yes, I do love hearing personal growth stories, and thank you for yours Peaches, it makes me very happy to hear how you have found that inner balance.
[16:22] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much!
[16:22] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We got through the queue, any final comments on this question?
[16:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank Y/you all for coming here today and participating! Next week, we talk about the extention of this, switching!
