Brats! -- September 20, 2026

[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): This is the last discussion in the "BDSM" acronym series that we started in March believe it or not!

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): when we gather in two weeks we'll start a series of more general discussions, of which I have many topics

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but as knowledge builds on knowledge, what we have discussed here will inform future discussions, so don't hit "erase" as I tell my students!

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we discuss a very misunderstood kind of submissive....The Brat!

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I of course have some prepared exposition so as I ramble, feel free to put in a C or a Q, and then we'll get to the queue.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): After "Babygirls" which we discussed a bit ago, Brats tend to cause the most consternation.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): There is a very deep love/hate kind of feeling toward Brats -- one loves them or one wants to strap them to a neutron bomb

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Now to be clear, a Brat is not just a "cheeky sub"

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): A Cheeky sub has a sense of humor, might say some off the wall, sarcastic things, or have some interesting behaviors that could rub people the wrong way, but doesn't take things to the level of The Brat.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Brats are also often referred to by others as "Attention Whores"

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Which may be in a way true, as Brats are usually finding new and improved ways to keep their Dominant on their toes and "make things more fun"...involving some new screwball kind of behavior.

 

[15:46] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): nods

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ): So the attention to detail is often the important part here

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Here is an example I've used before, some of you have heard it so don't ruin the punchline!

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Master HottDude says to his Bratty slave "Go make me coffee"

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Bratty Slave says "Yes Master!" and runs into the kitchen.

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): He can smell the coffee brewing and smiles.

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ten minutes later, she comes back in the living room minus coffee, and plops back on the couch.

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Master HottDude says "Hey...where's my coffee?"

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and here it comes....

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ): She looks back with an incredulous look and says, loudly, "WELL YOU SAID to *make* coffee. You didn't say you want any!"

 

[15:48] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:48] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): perfect

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Perfect

 

[15:48] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): groans once again

 

[15:48] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): facepalm

 

[15:48] Seli (Seliara Elton): slow claps

 

[15:48] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): laughs

 

[15:48] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): nods in agreement. proper response.

 

[15:48] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I know that girl!

 

[15:48] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): I'd never.... *halo*

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh

 

[15:48] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): Did that to an officer once. lol

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): A few years ago I read an article online about how the worst thing the owner of a Brat can ever see is to walk into his  living room and see his Bratty Sub kneeling on the floor...smiling...

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): He should expect the house to collapse in the next five minutes

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Unlike the smart-alek, cheeky sub, the Brat is always looking for a new and improved way to "make things more fun" and keep the activity rolling.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Dominants that can't handle Brats are completely perplexed by this....WHY would a Dominant want to put up with such a person who is endlessly finding ways to contravene orders or do insane things?

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That said...Brats are misunderstood by people so perplexed.

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): They do intend to obey and serve...but what I have been told by Brats and read on their worldview is something like this..."I will obey but not to anyone.  Why should I just 'obey' in a mindless, rote way?  Make me obey and I will."

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and the kind of Dom  that appreciates Brats are the ones that like being 'kept on their toes' so to speak, so they have to find new and improved ways to gain that obedience.

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Before I turn  things over....what people consensually do is their biz.  If a sub is a Brat or not, or a Dom wants to have a Brat as a sub or not, is all their personal choice.  As long as things are SSC and fall under RACK and PRICK rules, what people do is their concern and all we really want here is understanding and happiness for everyone.]

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We don't have to understand or even like something to say "ok, you do you, all's good!"

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): After all, Vanillas look at all of us the very same way.

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): With all that said, the questions for the August Assembly today are: 1) Are YOU a Brat, and if so, what "excitement" do you like bringing your Dominant (or, if you are not one, what zany stuff have you seen Brats do?) and 2) If You are a Dominant who likes Brats, or dislikes them, why? What is it about a Brat that either attracts You or instantly repels You?

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and let's of course keep this friendly even if we don't get it

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): First I'm going to go back to Katie's comment, let me repeat it'

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): [08:49] Katie (katiewalsh1993): C: I've been guilty of somewhat bratty behavior.. maybe.. never convicted onit though.. if you can subvert instructions given somewhat literally with whatever wiggle room you can fin then you're on the way~

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Katie may I ask a follow up on that?

 

[15:56] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): Yes?

 

[15:56] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): resists the urge to specify the can you/may you thing

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So I think you're saying you might look for ways to find that "wiggle room?"  Like the sub in my example with the coffee?  Is that sort of "subversion?"

 

[15:58] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): Yup, find the room within the language to exploit things a bit and take it in an unexpected direction~ Makes things more dynamic

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): There you go!

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): More fun!

 

[15:59] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): Technically I have done nothing wrong~ Monkeys paw and stuuf!~

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And i know some Dominants are like "how exactly is that 'fun?'"

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Right...she did what she was told, make coffee!

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If he had said "bring me coffee" she likely would  have brought the can of coffee to him

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Here you go!"

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Katie thanks! ♥

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok we now move to Cyan!

 

[16:01] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): In my experience, there tends to be a fine line between "really good bratting" and "annoying bratting".  Many don't know when to stop unfortunately.  A really good brat can be fun, but they know when to stop as well. And unfortunately, a select few push that line on purpose to instigate their "kink dispenser"  Good creative bratting can lead to a lot of fun! :)

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): There is truth to that

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Of course what that line is varies from person to person

 

[16:03] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): very true

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some Dom/mes love a really really bratty brat

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): others will tolerate it a bit

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): then stop it

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so while I agree, I think that line is fuzzy.  Good points!

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Cyan!

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia!

 

[16:04] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): i apologize if my words offend...that is not my intent rather it is my intention to voice my experience with Brats.... as a submissive observing it.

 

My observation with Brats is simply that they do not keep this "Brat" complex within the confines of their D/s relationship with a Dominant. i see it on display when its not appropriate. Thus my experience with "Brats" has NOT been a positive one.

 

I wind up having to see it on display at fountain, or in various gatherings where one should conduct one’s self as a respectful submissive.

 

Worse i have to deal with it as a Choreographer. Which is the ONE situation where i am NOT a submissive. I am the Choreo....don't pull that brat shit with me....cause i will can your ass from my act faster than you can BLINK.

 

Keep it between you and your whoever. Its not my kink, and i will not play into your personal narrative as a brat.#

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): this gets into the external consent issue

 

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): which we'll have soon

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): While a Dom/me and a Brat are totally fine in their behavior with each other, is it just to be expected that such behavior is tolerated everywhere?  Well if I go to work and act like a "brat" I can expect to be canned.

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That said the person and the community has to determine what the line is between playfulness and disrespect of the situation

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): which again goes back to Cyan's comment about "level of brat"

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We certainly want people to have fun but at some point decorum is a necessity.  But I do not know or wish to say what that "line" is.

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia you made a very good point, thanks!

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne we come to you please!

 

[16:08] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Done well I know that a brat is really trying to express the fact that they care and they care enough to really engage my mind with their bratiness not just misbehaving but adding texture and life and vitality and originality maybe it's a twinkle of an eye as she serves something Maybe the way she pauses to look at her reflection in mirror to make sure that she is dressed for me or maybe when she sticks me in a cage when I fall asleep and then poses on top of that cage takes a photo and presents it to me in a book  That's one that I remember years and years after it happened ! That is fundamentlly different thn simply acting unruly.

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Again I think it's matters of degree...most of what you said might not be seen as really "bratty"...except for the cage situation of course...

 

[16:10] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): It can be endearing when the terms are worked out through the relationship...she takes as much delight in her punishment!

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but is it punishment or funishment?

 

[16:10] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): *giggles *

 

[16:10] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): The consequences fit the situation

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): is the idea to work out that behavior and prevent it, or to give a sort of "reward" for doing it?

 

[16:11] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): If she hurs community, then we have to correct that wwithout extinguishing the spark...it can be a fine line, as hestia pointed out

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good points!!

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): we come to Cee please!

 

[16:12] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): While I love me a 'cheeky' and witty sub, I cannot do brat. It is too time consuming trying to figure out what will happen next and being so literal in instructions it makes my head hurt. In my submissive part if I were to come back without coffee my Lord would just stand there and wait for me to figure out what I had done to displease Him. But bring on the "sassy' ones. #

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee, that's a really good point that I've heard -- "I am NOT going to figure out how to give a direction in such a way that it CANNOT be overturned"....because it will be overrturned lol

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's why when first coming into contact with a submissive, time spent together and seeing what goes on is essential

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and clear communication on both sides is necessary

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the problem is when people into *any* relationship with misguided hopes.."I can cure this and make him/her what I want."  BZZZT

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's just  recipe for disaster, D/s or vanilla

 

[16:16] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): haha!

 

[16:16] RB (RBQuinn Resident): nods

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said, thanks!

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Salis we come to you please!

 

[16:17] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): I don't get this "make me obey" idea if the submissive has submitted to obey their Dominant.  Why does that idea make sense?  I get that some bratty behavior, at times can be fun.   But not all the time!  That gets exhausting.  A cheeky sub can be lots of fun.#

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and again it comes down to understanding what each other wants, needs and expects

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some Dom/mes LOVE the idea of bending the Brat to their will, as they can anyway lol

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and like I said earlier, the Brat will eventually obey, but they see it as "sorry, but rote, immediate doing what I'm told is boring.  Why should I?"

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Again, not everyone's cup of tea

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but very good point Salis, thanks!

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sydney we come to you please!

 

[16:20] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): I could make an entire dissertation on brats but I will try to keep it ... succinct (kinda).  I am a brat.  This is an important part of my character.  I enjoy the moments I express that trait.  Not many outside my close friends and family know this since I keep it controlled.  A brat has to become familiar and really understand her Dominate before bratting.  I only brat within the limits set for me.  I can go from blatant disobedience and poking the bear to playful flirty teasing.  My brattish behavior will never cross the established line and will never publicly disrespect or hurt my Dominate.  There is a spectrum of brats, not all are always insolent, disrespectful, pushing.  Not all brats are 'harmful'.  I believe public bratting should be avoided.  The sub bratting in public supposedly knows her Dom's limits but people in the area might have different limits and consider the bratting remarks as flagrant disrespect.  Should consent be considered for the public audience?  For a brat, they will be 90% obedient and respectful, but 10% there is a time to play around, be playfully mischievous and disobey.  When done responsibly, brat play adds a bold, playful energy to the D/s relationship. #

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): These are all very good points

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I will say though  that *some* Dominants *like* their Brat doing *some* of their Bratty behavior in public.  It shows the Dom has a Brat and does something to control them.

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But again, we get into 'third party consent' and what Hestia pointed out...why do *I* have to be involved in this

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so again I think it's a matter of the community and what it is willing to tolerate

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Remember we aren't here to figure out world peace or save the manatees....we're kicking the can around

 

[16:24] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lol

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks Sydney

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Katie back to you!

 

[16:24] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): My comment was just: I would like to kinda suggest just a little, reading the room at first. Brats may be brats  but should be just a lil' flexible thing... Don't go into a new situation and expect them to conform to you. In first contact, flexibility is pretty important as you get to know each other and rapport is never built right away.

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree Katie!

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That said a Dominant might see a Brat and say right off the bat "not my type" which is fine, as that Dom wouldn't be the Brat's type either

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but you're right, many subs don't feel they have to obey every order given immediately...and that leads to some being labeled "Brat" right on

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Which I don’t' see as fair either

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very good point, thanks!

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Alsedel, you're up please!

 

[16:27] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Thank you and this is my view of the world with this. Everyone has their own views and should be respected. There is a difference between Bratting and The Brat.

 

[16:28] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Sydny so eloquent inher commetns about it.   Bratting is playful, sexual, haunting, and leads to building a relationship.

 

[16:29] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Also, Dom/Masters can Be bratting.  I do it on occasions when I accuse My Bestie Hestia on her card cheating. .

 

 

[16:29] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): moi??? (shocked look)

 

[16:29] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): For Dom/Sub it what they will except.. in their relationship.  ITs not Obstructive is Constructive.

 

[16:30] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Bratting is role a behavore anyone can do it.  Now the BRAT

 

[16:32] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Brats are another lleve  if Dom want to be engaged with a BRAT their perrogative.  The BRAT can try tomanipulate not only the DOM but those around us. Hestias example were so on the mark there.  Again, everyone has their on SL their D/S  Being an old Gorean i watch it destroyed by the Kajira/Princesses where were BRATS. .

 

[16:33] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): I could on but .. coffee time. Everyone here knows what they want and how far they go in the Brat/Dom relations or BRAT/Sub .. cause doms can be brats too#

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): All good points

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and I think your dichotomy of Bratty-ness vs a BRAT has quite a bit of merit

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I just would say that I think saying all "Brats" are manipulative kinds of somewhat sociopaths is probably a bit of a stereotype.  Certainly some are....and very "regular" subs can be highly manipulative as well minus the usual "Brat" behavior

 

[16:35] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): To me that’s the delimiter.

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That’s a very good point!  Thanks Alsedel!

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne back to you!

 

[16:36] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I understand that from the outside of a dynamic, bratty behavior looks like whatever we wouldn't personally tolerate. But within the stated and sometimes unstated dimensions of a couple on either side of the slash, an understanding emerges that balances disrespect and the continual negotiation of where the balance lies....and when those forces align, it just works for them. So I'm sort of defending brats because the intent is notjust to cause trouble. It can be the glue that really makes a couple work or they wouldn't collude in it!

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree 100%!

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): What works for folks works for them!

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We can personally disagree, even say to ourselves "Holy sh*t I'd NEVER get involved in that!" and yet respect the fact people get into things because they like them

 

[16:38] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Absolutly..

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I don't understand the features of "Abrasive Elbow Worship" but that doesn't mean I hand people body lotion if I see it happening

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Just "ok not my thing" and move on

 

[16:39] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I think that a brat as simply defying every command or tryinjg to get out of things because they cannot be physically forced (virtually) is not a brat at all....they live for challenge.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree!

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And that's a very good point

 

[16:40] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): and they are out the door

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): it is after all a matter of degree

 

[16:40] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): but when they call forth my fiendishness with etheir own, I find that engrossing!

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :P

 

[16:41] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): that is the stuff of great scenes and a continuing delightful relationship

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne thanks for that, good point!

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee back to you please!

 

[16:42] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I also think this behavior depends on what outcome the brat is looking for, punishment or just being noticed. If taken too far for the former it could become pathological.  Again negotiation is paramount to this working right.  I also thought I would explain why brats are not my cup of tea. I am eldest of 9 and raised my siblings 7 boys and a sister with Down's. I did all that "well you did not tell me you wanted it in a cup" stuff for many years. Brings back memories of trying to run a household as a child myself. Brats, have at it but in my world I would put you in a corner, unless that is what you are looking for. Doms can be brats at times too. But Respect to all #

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes that's a very good point Cee!

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That said...there are Dom/mes that LOVE having an ultra-bratty brat.  I dunno if any of you remember Dani, she was a Seraph here years ago...she was an ultra-brat and her Master, Peter, not only loved it he egged her on.

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): To the chagrin of some here....

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So....everyone has their thing!

 

[16:45] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): I think some dommes like to be challenged a bit and may look to the brats for that. It's boring being obeyed blindly all the time

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sure!

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And some do like being obeyed instantly 100% of the time

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): everyone has their thing

 

[16:46] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Like a woman who wants a man to work for it

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and there's someone for everyone!

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): My friend Tann had a very bratty sub and just loved the challenge

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): some would look at go "wtf?"

 

[16:47] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Gor has a saying "Let the swords of others set your limitations"    I think in bratting it is "Let the whip of your Dominant set the brats limit" (not kink limits/likes, but how far they can go bratting )

 

[16:47] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): But Gor had an entirely different understanding of what a slave is and to what lengths one could go to enforce compiance

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): all good points!

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Cee, Katie!

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sydney please!

 

[16:48] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): It takes time to learn how to brat ... respectfully.  You just do not jump right in.  In a past relationship I thought I understood my Dom and made a small bratty comment ... and was immediately shut down hard.  That hurt.  I never bratted again and I lost some of the fun part of a relationship.  Know your Dom well or face the consequences. #

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): 100%

 

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): which is why extended negotiation periods is good

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): a collar 20 mins into the meeting is usually a recipe for disaster

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): that said I think your Dominant could have used that as a teaching moment rather than a "shut you down"

 

[16:49] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): Yup, yup, I guess I was trying to say the same a bit in my 'read the room' comment

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): communication is always vital

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good points Sydney thanks!

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa thanks for waiting and I think you have the last comment of the day!

 

[16:50] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): After reading A/all comments i can agree with some more than others, my opinion is that a Brat in the D/s Dynamic is simply a creative, playful sub, and it works best in DD/lg dynamics i dont believe disobedience works for a power exchange Dynamic, further more, lately what im witnessing more and more is a total lack of respect rather than playfulness. What Hestia said earlier, even towards other submissives or people who they don´t have any familiarity with to push that side. but thats my opinion, at the end of the day there are plenty of roles out there for people to chose and what dynamic suits them and their partners best, and please, for all thats sacred! do not allow Brat creative Doms nor Sadists to go extinct!

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hear hear!

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think "time and place" is very important

 

[16:51] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): yes

 

[16:51] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): #

 

[16:52] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): "time and place" here here

 

[16:52] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): agreed

 

[16:52] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): applauds

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As I switch there are behaviors I might do at home with my Dominant that I'd NEVER do in public....or I might allow more behaviors at home to my sub than what's allowed out.

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Katie said "read the room" and that's really important

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Any behavior we might do needs to be in context so...just think before acting...that's true of anything we might do.

 

[16:53] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Sorry i just wanted to elaborate on that

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok Nawa finish up!

 

[16:55] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): If people start pushing their role, imagine a sadist just pulling their cane out and swatting you with it out of the blue. if that is not acceptable than please understand your bratiness should only come out to the people you have relationships with and have given expressed consent

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): time/place/context/group

 

[16:56] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): totally agree

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I wonder if I wore the leather dress to Mass if that would go...

 

[16:56] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Bless me Father, I'm sinning right now"

 

[16:56] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): There's definitely a fine line in 3rd party consent and what is permissible behavior - Here we have Laz's reminder "Be an adult" "Treat everyone with respect" :)

 

[16:56] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): yes!

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok this was a rousing discussion!

 

[16:57] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): to the leather dress, I mean

 

[16:57] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Their are some kinky priests outt there, you might get a surprise

 

[16:57] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): laughs*

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh heh heh :P

 

[16:57] RB (RBQuinn Resident): laughs

 

[16:57] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): if you only knew

 

[16:57] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): kinky?? not me..no..never...nope

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): again we are not here to rag on Brats, just to chat

 

[16:57] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): C

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and this ends our discussion of the BDSM acronym!

 

[16:57] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Thank you Miss Vanessa!

 

[16:58] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): We should talk about religion and D/s and BDSM some time

 

[16:58] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *shakes her head*  he needs his leathers

 

[16:58] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): grins at Master Johan

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): In two weeks we'll go to more general topics, and as third party consent has come up, we'll start with that

 

[16:58] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): Thank you Vanni!   And thanks A/all for a great discussion!

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): seems to be a natural segue

 

[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Thank you Vanni, Thank you everyone :)

 

[16:58] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Thank yuou Miss Vanni!

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Jenine do you have your comment ready?

 

[16:58] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): yes Mistress its just a simple one

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): go ahead if it's ready

 

[16:58] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): I think that in my perspective as I'm still learning alot, that Bratting ties to being in public gatherings like example:

I like to joke about Innocent because it adds fun to the context.

But when I'm with my Miss I most definitely am not a Brat I respect my Miss to much!#

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): well said Jenine!

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): See y'all in two weeks!  Enjoy the Festival!

Service Tops and Bottoms -- September 5, 2026

 [15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): (I like hands at the bottom, not Cs!) :P

 

[15:43] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): will try to remember the preference

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[15:43] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok I do have my usual bit of exposition

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so feel free to say "C" or "Q" as  I ramble a bit and then we'll go to the queue!

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We are coming to the end of our series on the BDSM acronym

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): this week our topic is Service Tops and Bottoms

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and in two weeks we go over the much maligned and misunderstood BRAT

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and yes bring the mustard, onions, peppers and saurkraut

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  points to RB

 

[15:46] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thank you!

 

[15:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Curry Ketchup for me and brochen please

 

[15:46] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): BRATS are the Wurst!

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): mmm

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:46] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ouch

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So this week, in our second to final discussion in this series, we will go over the concept of the "Service Top" and "Service Bottom"

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): There are a lot of different ways to define these, and I'm hoping in this discussion we can really "Flesh Out" the idea

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): In general a Service Top is a person that is not heavily drawn to BDSM acts like tying, flogging, etc, stuff we associate with the "Top" in a scene.

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): This could be for example a Dominant who is heavily drawn to the D/s aspect of the connection, but will flog/beat on their charge to keep them happy.

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Or it could be a person that identifies more as "sub" but will take on the Top role for another, maybe another member of the D/s family, or even at times their Owner who likes to switch.

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Likewise a "Service Bottom" is a person who may not be very drawn to the BDSM aspect of things, but will willingly serve another as a bottom, within their limits, of course.

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So perhaps a sub who knows their Dominant really likes flogging, and will consent to being flogged, while reading another chapter of "Great Expectations" while it's going on lol...

 

[15:49] RB (RBQuinn Resident): laughs

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Or is that "G R A T E Expectations...when the  Dom hauls out the grater...."

 

[15:50] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "It was the best of times, it was the wurst of times" Great Expectations in Brats.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL

 

[15:50] RB (RBQuinn Resident):  rolling my eyes

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Service can also be purely what it sounds like, *service*

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Meaning a sub might not be interested in BDSM as all but does like doing domestic duties, or serving a family or the community in some way that doesn't involve what we normally think of as BDSM

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So what we're getting at here is a person who will quite willingly get into BDSM with another, even if it's not exactly their cup of tea, as the want the other happy

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): or finds other ways to serve that aren't tied to what we think of in our kinky lifestyle

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and of course, you might have a somewhat different view of what a Service Top or Bottom is

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Are you involved with this kind of connection?  Do you another definition or viewpoint on it?  Do you find it puzzling?

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh one more thing

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some people may well create contracts to do BDSM

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Like "I'll be your servant/sub/slave for this amount of time, willing to do this or that, and you will provide me with x,y and z"

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some people find that too cold and calculating, but honestly, such contracts are somewhat common

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but that's another form of service, just with a notarized document!

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok I'm done rambling...what do you all think

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan when you are ready please

 

[15:56] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think you've nailed it pretty well.   I am a service top, and not necessarily a sadist (though my bratty Dom side does have a bit of fiend in me).   I am still Dominant, but not a 'I want to cause you pain' type.  I'm a "I truly get off on my sub/partners getting off."   so, the beating Sydney's sexy backside black and blue by itself does little to nothing for me -  but the fact it makes her wiggle/squirm/moan and provides a weeks worth of good endorphins and pleasure - means everything.   #done

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  wiggles a bit myself

 

[15:58] RB (RBQuinn Resident):  nods and smiles to Johan's description

 

[15:58] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *moves against Sire's leg and hides while giggling*

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so as a follow up, if Sydney wasn't into said black and bluing from time to time, the lack of S/M in your connection wouldn't really be an issue to you, Johan?  The emotional and D/s connection would be more than enough?

 

[16:00] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): 100% would be more than enough, I do love her leashed and kneeling at my feet, (and sometimes) cuddling, and dancing, and I love her in Pony Tack

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  smiles big

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I love that!

 

[16:01] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I often have to remember she needs the masochism as well

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): nods nods

 

[16:01] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): nods at what he said

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks so much for that Johan, and you as well lovely Sydney ♥

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne you're up when ready!

 

[16:03] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Thank yoiu, Vanessa. I have operted this way toward my partners for a long time, and sometimes it confuses them...because I do not seek an agressive stance most of the time...unless I know wh=she needs it, and she is my primary focus. #end

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So you are less likely to get into the S/M kind of activity unless your partner is really kinky and needs it, then you will do it for their happiness?

 

[16:06] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): If I am on my own, then I will gravitte to my style, but I am intently trying to read and disern her needs and will go up to my comfort level to give her what she needs. In general I don't wind up with hrdcore masochists as artners

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): nods

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): this is why negotiation prior to any collar is a 100% necessity!

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Here wear this collar...now what do you like?  What?  EEWW!"

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): usually a recipe for disaster!

 

[16:08] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): agreed, both of us have to know the neds of the other\

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so you're doing it right Shayne!

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks for the comment!

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cyan we come to you please!

 

[16:09] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I appreciate the comments.  I think I may lean in that direction, but there are aspects of being a TPE domme that I find I do need in the relationship.   But I have always been open to the needs of my subs and what I can do to meet those needs.  I just had never thought of it framed in the manner of a service top...  gives me something to think about :) #

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think some Dominants feel the term "Service Top" makes it seem that they're just providing a "service" to their sub, so it's in some way ... maybe demeaning?  But that's not the intent

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Like "I'm not just a walking paddle for you, young lady!"

 

[16:11] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  smiles

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It means more "This isn't my favorite thing but I know you need it and I'm happy to give it even if it's not totally my thrill"....and of course I'd think the sub would also do things for their Dom in a similar manner.

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Like y'all know (or most do) that I switch, I had a Mistress in SL years ago that was really into pony play.  I have no animosity to pony but it's just not my gig, but I did it with her as it was important to her.

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So I guess for a while I was a "Service Pony" lol

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And no I have NO pics of that

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And if you do, they aren't of me, I wasn't even there!

 

[16:13] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): darn

 

[16:13] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): grins oo bad

 

[16:13] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lol

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  grins

 

[16:13] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): guess that got a rise

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): You perverts, that's why I love you!

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cyan thanks so much for that, great comment!

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia please!

 

[16:14] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): From my perspective as a Sub.....there is a part of me that would KNOW the Dominant really is not "into" our actions, and somehow that ...at least for me....would make the experience and scene less than satisfying. I guess having said that....a Service Top is not what i would need...i want someone fully into the experience as i am.#

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's a totally valid way to look at it, Hestia!

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "If they're not into it, then I can't really get into the moment."

 

[16:16] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): nods

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm curious if anyone agrees with Hestia's take or has a different view?  Feel free to give an opinion, don't C please.

 

[16:17] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): well, I understand her viewpoint, and as a top, it certainly helps to be involved and interested in a wide array of kinks...

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Lyra are you commenting on what I asked or a new comment?

 

[16:18] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): commenting to Hestia

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): go ahead

 

[16:18] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): Everyone is different.  You can grow and change your mind and try new things and experiment.

 

[16:18] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): Everyone is different

 

[16:18] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and you find your match by trying things out

 

[16:19] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and I give to my partner things I normally wouldn't try

 

[16:19] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I think it's a give and take

 

[16:19] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and teh service can be performed in bits or large parts

 

[16:19] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think its an assumption that just because I (for example, not taking it personally) am not into being a Sadist, doesn't mean I'm not into the scene itself.   As earlier, I 'get off' knowing my partners are getting off, so in that aspect I am fully into the scene and the more they get off on it, the more I get off on it.

 

[16:19] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Knowing Hestia, I know that she is fully immersed and yet as a Dominant, I would try to deliver the experience whe wants...not half-heartedly but fully to the best of my ability...I think that it is self-doubt that doesn't 'read right' to the subissive partner

 

[16:19] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Sorry Master Johan if you thought my comment was in regards to you.That was not my source of statement...it was myself :)

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So Johan it's less the flogging itself and more the "she's beautiful and she's so happy being given this and I love her happy" that feeds you in the scene

 

[16:20] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): No not at all :) I didn't take it personally  <3

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): good point Lyrah!

 

[16:20] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): thank you Miss Vanni

 

[16:21] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Sir Shayne is correct. I am deeply immersive. I get INTO...the action and scene....if i do not feel my partner is equally so...it falls flat :)

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and that's a very valid feeling Hestia.  Some s-types would feel like they're imposing or dragooning their Dom into something for them, and that doesn't sit right for them.  and also as you said just the deep immersion can be broken.

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): wb Diana!

 

[16:22] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I thnk that where there is connection and communication it is going to work out

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia thanks for that!  And thanks all for your thoughts.

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sydney we come to you!

 

[16:25] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): i did not know Sire was a service Dom when I met him ... I did not know it even after we were together.  I just remember our talks and negotiation and limits page all seemed to fit perfectly.  So we fit.  We are happy.  I give him what he needs and he gives me what I need.  If that fits a service Dom then fine.  #

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It's really just a term

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It can be taken or dismissed, the important thing is how each of us fit with our Other and how happy we are

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and as you and Johan are happy, *that* is what matters, regardless of what anyone cares to call it!

 

[16:27] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *nods happily*

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :) ♥

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Sydney!

 

[16:28] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I think taken the wrong way it sounds like topping from the bottom, but it is really communication

 

[16:29] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): agreed, Sir.

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Topping from the Bottom is where the sub really does try to make their Dominant into their "personal paddle and/or vibrator", dictating in a manipulative way how things go

 

[16:29] Diana Garsdale (Diana Garsdale): I'm feeling we're just re-writing the term "switch"

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): that can certainly be part of it Diana!

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Saying "I'll do this with you as I care for you and it might not be my main cup of tea but it will make us grow together" is a whole different thing than being manipulated into something against one's desires.  That's *always* bad.

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I know we all agree on that!

 

[16:32] Diana Garsdale (Diana Garsdale): Of course you always find your compatibility in "negotiations"

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): 100% Diana

 

[16:32] Diana Garsdale (Diana Garsdale): I'm sorry...lol...I'm not using the system lol

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh it's ok!

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan, I think you were typing something before you crashed

 

 

[16:32] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): 100%  thats why our Kinks/Limits are generally a 'spectrum' of 0-5  in our NCs (If you use those)  I was - I was in IM's confirming to Hestia that I hadn't taken her comment directed at me I was just using myself as the example :)

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :)

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok I have one more question for y'all

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Feel free to answer *minus a C* please!

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some people get into a D/s connection and find themselves mostly compatible, except for maybe one thing.  Maybe one of them just isn't into uh...let's say....abrasive elbow worship that the other just loves!

 

[16:35] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): So then you keep one elbow very abrasive, and use lotion on the other one *nods sagely*

 

[16:35] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): You can be poly and get your kicks with another partner

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Is that a good spot to find a Service Top or Bottom to let the other get their kink going while they share everything else?  Or is that opening the relationship up too far?

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm curious how y'all feel about it

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  grins at Johan

 

[16:36] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): I think points like "what is too far" and is very individual.  There is no "correct" answer for that.

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "it keeps the lotion off its elbow or it gets the hose again!"

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): right but I'm looking for personal feelings, not an absolute

 

[16:36] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think that is true, the one who's need isn't met can look outside the relationship.  However, it still needs to be communicated to avoid issues

 

[16:36] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Only Sith Doms deal in absolutes.. and they are definitely NOT service oriented

 

[16:36] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): It depends on the two people and what they can agree on.

 

[16:37] Diana Garsdale (Diana Garsdale): You always play "down" to the limits of your partner. If this was a totally necessary thing for you going in and you gave the collar.... sorry too bad

 

[16:37] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I've been with people who request that I perform some service they simply can't perform and yet want to give it to their partner...I'm being vague because the actual service isn't as important as giving it to their partner

 

[16:37] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I guess that would be being a Service Top, too

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): nods

 

[16:37] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): hahaa

 

[16:38] Jenine (Illana Kuu): that is quite true Sir Johan!

 

[16:39] Richard (Richard2502 Resident): So what i am gathering, Service top or Bottom comes down to communication and negotiation

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Like that Mistress I had that I mentioned...if she had found a willing pony sub to play with, I'd have been just fine with that.  But she didn't and I did willingly go with it as in the end I wanted her happy.

 

[16:39] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Everything comes down to negotiation :)

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): She did find some weird person for other stuff I warned her against, dumped me for him, and then came crying to me about how messed up it all was lol

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I did try to be sympathetic...

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and yes Richard, negotiation and communication is paramount...not the channel btw...

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent!  Any other comments on this before we close?

 

[16:42] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): It is good to have a name for something I've been conscious of for a long time

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We are here to kick ideas around!

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and of course not find absolutes

 

[16:43] Jenine (Illana Kuu): I love what we learn her Mistress Vanni it helps me learn more and find other ways to have fun!

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If we try to solve world peas we're full of baloney!

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I need Brianne back!

 

[16:43] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): ugh

 

[16:43] RB (RBQuinn Resident):  the Bri-in-training sighs sadly

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I still love you RB!

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♥

 

[16:44] RB (RBQuinn Resident):  feels life can go on

 

[16:44] Jenine (Illana Kuu):  giggles

 

[16:44] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): have a good day!

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok then that's it for today.  Thanks for partcipating!  In two weeks we'll go over the BRAT and then thanks to Diana I remembered we also need to cover switching so that will be four weeks from today

 

[16:44] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): Thanks E/everyone.. excellent conversation!  and thanks for hosting Vanni!

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): then we'll go to different topics

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): have a lovely day everyone!

Babygirls and DaddyDoms -- August 23, 2026

 [15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok we need to start

 

[15:40]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As usual I have a bit of exposition to start us off

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): as I yap for a bit feel free to put in a C or Q into the coffee cup (just say "C" or "Q")

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): then we'll go to the queue

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Today however continue our series on BDSM with a talk about another misunderstood type of dynamic, the Babygirl and the DaddyDom.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Although perhaps not as polarizing as the Brat style, this also throws some people for a loop.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Brats by the way we'll discuss in September!

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): just in time to have a brat with onions and mustard -- read into that what you will!

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:44] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): moans

 

[15:44] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): lol *shakes my head*

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you, i'm here all week, try the fish!

 

[15:44] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): OH is food a topic now?? (wakes up)

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): no!

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): continuing!

 

[15:45] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): darn

 

[15:45] Jenine (Illana Kuu):   chuckles

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): A couple things about the BB/DD dynamic

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): First, this is NOT discussing ageplay.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Kids and ANY form of sex or BDSM play are banned in SL, for extremely good reason, so "Babygirl" is not to be taken as a 15 year old palling around with Roman Polanski or anything like that

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): (Dates myself with that remark)

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Also we are not talking about "family" or "incest" play or anything like that.

 

[15:46] RB (RBQuinn Resident): (enjoys the idea of dating with Vanni.....)

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If people wanna RP that on their time, whatever floats their boat!

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): (I'm an expensive date!)

 

[15:46] Connie (Constanse Levenque):   grins

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Also, we are not talking about "Littles" or subs that play at being kids.

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We have quite a few Littles at my RL BDSM place.  They like to dress like kids, color, play with play-dough, roller skate and what not

 

[15:48] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): (running out of note space for what is excluded)

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): they even have a monthly meeting, SOAP, or "Society of Age Players" and no it doesn't mean THAT kind of age play

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have talked to several of them about it, and they say they are recreating a childhood they never had

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So it's all good.  Not my kink, but their kink is just fine for them.

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyway (winks at Salis) just what ARE we talking about?

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Babygirl" is usually construed to mean a grown woman that in ways acts rather passive, looking for a man (her DaddyDom) to guide her and possibly spoil her and care for her in a very nurturing style D/s relationship.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So she might come across as a cutie teen, but she's not a kid or underage.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The dynamic seems to be the "Daddy" that spoils his "Princess" and cares and nurtures for her.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): In fact, in a lot of the dynamics I have seen, he calls her "Princess" or "Buttercup" (yes, a Princess Bride reference there) or some other cute name like that.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And their dynamic has a very different turn than we'd see with the more usual D/s, or M/s kind of relationship.

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So, the questions before today's assembly are:  1) do you do the Babygirl/DaddyDom kind of dynamic?  (or perhaps the Babyboy/MommyDom, although I've not seen much of that), 2) If so, what works for you in it (or has it if done in the past) and 3) If you don't what questions or comments do you have about this dynamic?  Are you interested in it, or do you see it as something you'd rather not do?

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Remember we're always polite even when disagreeing :)

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): YKINMKBYKIOK (Your Kink Is Not My Kink But Your Kink Is Okay)

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So feel free to put in your C or Q, that's my exposition for today

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): apalia you break the ice!  When you are ready please!

 

[15:56] apalia (apalia Resident): To begin with the whole DD/BG naming gives me the creeps but that's just me....I understand that the ageplay thing is not what we are talking about.  I've never really gone for that kind of thing basically because it all sounds a bit exploitative??  Also (and I haven't really investigated for many years) Most BGs in my experience are bratty and just looking for a spanking...:)

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some might see it as explotiation, but then again, vanillas think anything we do is a form of exploitation!

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so I think it's really a manner of perspective

 

[[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And I do agree apalia that there can be some crossover between the "Babygirl" and the "Brat"

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but that's not necessarily true in all cases

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): many Babygirls I've seen like dressing cute and carrying a plushie and being coy, which is not brat

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but certainly they can mix!

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks for that apalia!

 

[15:59] apalia (apalia Resident): yw

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia we come to you please

 

[15:59] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Semantics count, in a text driven communication system.

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): well, as devil's advocate...lots of vanilla men (and women!) call their other "baby" and act like the big protector, but I don't think we'd look at them as candidates for Epstein Island... ;)

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That said, yes this dynamic can be polarizing and does often hit people's uncanny valley triggers

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "something is just *wrong* here...."

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But like you said, everyone has their kinks and as long as they're following the rules of SL and Xaara, they can do their "thang" however they like

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): good points thanks Hestia!

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nyx we come to you please!

 

[16:05] Nүx Pяιsм (Nyx Prism): I Have been a Little For Years,  and Well I was with a Dominate for 7 years, and he was my daddy, so I wanted to first thank you all for giving us a lights on.. we are alot of the time miss understood and not taken serious in the ds, But I wanted to say that It takes alot of support and calming energy from the Dominate.. After That Experience I took such a break that i was scared to express myself as that. that I was nervous to tell my mistress so she told me that its not bad to seek a Daddy/Mommy  but she respect me and understood my need and said if i need to i will take the time and learn you.

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's cool!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): One night my RL club got "taken over" by some littles lol

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): they were yelling and running around and roller skating all over...we had to push them into a large room to have their fun

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): only because they were a bit too loud and were interrupting some scenes

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): it was an intriguing night!

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And yes the BB/DD dynamic is often misunderstood Nyx.  It's why we have these discussions!

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good points thanks for that!

 

[16:08] Nүx Pяιsм (Nyx Prism):   giggles "we are known to do that.., Honestly i use my little side to just vegge out i guess i can say.. XD

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan we come to you please!

 

[16:09] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Fair warning - put your helmets on!

 

[16:09] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I originally had similar thoughts as apalia and Hestia, when I was just getting started in online BDSM and a growing fad was the DD/BG play (everything running in cycles) what you would normally see was brattish play disguised under DD/BG or to a point Age Play.  There is still some form of overlap of Age Play with DD/BG but like many of our kinks there can be overlaps. My initial 'ick' with it was that I had a 7yr old Stepdaughter at the time and so the Age Play thought was a definite turn off.

 

 I think what opened my mind more was that my style of Dominance as a Service Top and 'Caring Dom'  isn't very far off from what many would consider Daddy Dom.  I'm here for the care and support, protection and training of my subs. I'm here to help them be the best person and submissive they can be while looking out for their needs.  Sometimes those needs are relaxing playing games, watching videos, dressing cute and kawaii and avoiding the stressors even temporarily of modern adulthood, because lets all face it.

 

[16:09] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident):  The past 30 years life can be wonderful, but it can also be a shit show. So if they can escape a little bit into the whimsy of babygirl play, I support it.     I mean, I'm also a Disney Adult/Universal Adult soo...  #done

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): save vs wall of text

 

[16:09] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *Save successful only 1/2 damage*

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hey I am one of those nutty Disney Resort passholders too!

 

[16:10] RB (RBQuinn Resident):  ﺴ✶ﺴ✶ﺴ Aρρℓαυsє ★ Aρρℓαυsє ★ Aρρℓαυsє ﺴ✶ﺴ✶ﺴ

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and I might have a really cute Minnie top I wear

 

[16:11] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): If it were a crop top it would be a mini minnie top and I bet adorably cute too !

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): One thing you pointed out that is important, this is a spectrum, meaning some people are into the "light" more playful parts of the BB/DD dynamic where it might more overlap with "Brat" like apalia pointed out, and then to a moderate and finally very deep kind of "protector to very passive person" kind of thing

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): again, it's their dynamic, and I think most D/s relationships have *some* aspect of that, even if we don't call ourselves BB/DD types.

 

[16:13] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Indeed, I have a friend who is a Diaper Wearing Little -  full age regression (Non-sexual)    while its not my thing, it is theirs and thats ok too :)

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so a friend of mine in First Life had a biz where he was making bondage furnishings, he's a really good woodworker

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and he was approached by a guy who wanted a full, adult size crib for his infantilism kink

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): he thought it way off base but hey money was money!

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the guy paid for 1/3 of it as a down payment, my friend started it but the guy never paid the rest....so to this day my friend still has "crib" pieces in his garage lol

 

[16:15] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Convert a crib into a cage?

 

[16:16] Lora Nieuport (LoraSaenz1 Corvinus): lol

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):   grins

 

[16:16] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): nods at Johan

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan thanks for those wise words, we always appreciate your comments!

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's go to Lora please!  and anyone else please C or Q!

 

[16:17] Lora Nieuport (LoraSaenz1 Corvinus): In the move cat on a hot tin roof the matriarch of the family calls the patriarch 'Big Daddy'.  A movie back in the 50s with Paul Newman and Liz Taylor.  No one back then thought it was bad.  I was taught that these terms in the DD/bb dynamic a term of endearment.  In Latin cultures, women call their husband papi meaning Daddy and men call their women nena meaning girl.  Again a term of endearment.  Through time these terms have been used a lot and no one very thought about it back then.  Until recently.  Sometimes names are just names and nothing more to it.   done

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Si, mi papi es muy caliente!"

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): *grins*

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I know enough Spanish to order food and be a bit kinky :P

 

[16:19] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "I love it when they call me Big Papa!   Put your hands in the air, like you're a true player"

 

[16:19] Lora Nieuport (LoraSaenz1 Corvinus): I just never thought of my grandmother a babygirl.  she was a spanish strong woman and cursed like a sailor.  laughs

 

[16:19] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): kinky with food?

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But that is very true, Lora, and it is a cultural thing

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Don't some Latin men also refer to their girlfriend/wife as "Mami?"

 

[16:20] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Yes also a term of endearment

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Si, claro!

 

[16:20] Lora Nieuport (LoraSaenz1 Corvinus): yes also a term of endearment and definitely not that she is his mother

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but of course that's not the dynamic we're discussing

 

[16:21] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): They also refer to other men/women as Papi/Mami just as a friendly term -non romantic :)

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I was raised Catholic, we called the priest "Father" but that wasn't anything other than the usual term of respect

 

[16:22] Lora Nieuport (LoraSaenz1 Corvinus): so again we all have false ideas of the term Daddy and what ever is used for females in the dynamic.  The dynamic itself and how each couple defines it is on them and none of my business.

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed Lora, we don't have to like something, but just respect it enough to let folks do their thing as long as it's within the basic normative frame of SL and society

 

[16:23] Lora Nieuport (LoraSaenz1 Corvinus): nods to Vanni

 

[16:23] Lora Nieuport (LoraSaenz1 Corvinus): exactly. behind closed doors and all

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): One more:  vanillas flip out when they hear a sub call their male Dominant "Master"

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Don't you know slavery is illegal?"

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "That's NOT what we mean here, babe.  Chill."

 

[16:24] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): I just look at them and smile and go about my business

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:25] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): context is important when terms like Daddy are used.

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Lora!

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Tiana

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): When ready please!

 

[16:25] Tiana Rore Miracle (RoreMiracle Resident): are your selling you self to a slave suction house so you must be a whore

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): You mean that as how that's perceived by vanillas of course!

 

[16:26] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Hah jokes on them, we'd do it for free!  The money just weeds out the scrubs

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hey pal, $10 is $10...

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[16:26] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier):   snickers at Sir Johan

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):   screams as a wave of $10 bills are tossed at me...

 

[16:27] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): laughs

 

[16:27] Tiana Rore Miracle (RoreMiracle Resident): i had a daddy Dom once, he wanted me to dress like a school girl and a teen and for some reason it creeped me out not this is before i came here and had some lovely whorshps, yes some people out isl are pero and horrble but this is why place like xaraa are here#

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Tiana, did you feel like he was pushing something "wrong" on you, or he just liked the schoolgirl look?

 

[09:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): (I have dressed as a kinky schoolgirl many times here btw ;) )

 

[09:29] Tiana Rore Miracle (roremiracle): yes i don't like dressing like a child or school girl

 

[09:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): right so that was not your thing and you didn't have to do that

 

[09:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): remember we cherish the big C word here...not that one...CONSENT

 

[09:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli) knows my audience *giggles*

 

[09:30] Johan Dark (wjohanw): SOoo many C words :)

 

[09:30] Tiana Rore Miracle (roremiracle): that what i am lean;t here

 

[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): Tiana we welcome you to Xaara and I'm glad you're connecting to the positive atmosphere we try to create

 

[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): And thanks for that comment!

 

[09:31] Tiana Rore Miracle (roremiracle): i am bring a freind next time

 

[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): great!

 

[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): Jenine we come to you please

 

[09:31] Jenine (illana.kuu): its no different than my relationship with my Miss, the society I live in flips its top hearing such terms used let alone Master... and my Miss has called me her Babygirl as a term of endearment more than a few times.  But Miss Robbi is Very protective!

 

[09:32] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): Good points Jenine!

 

[09:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): as long as it promotes happiness it's  good, but as Tiana pointed out, if it's NOT doing that, time to renegotiate or leave if the other won't listen

 

[09:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): so I love that you and your Miss are happy and fit well, Jenine!

 

[09:34] Jenine (illana.kuu): I strongly agree there, and we have an amazing connection!

 

[09:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): good👍

 

[09:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): We come to Taryn please!

 

[09:34] taryn (taryn.topaz): I just wanted to say coming from a RL situation where her bio Dad was never loving, caring, supportive or protective while at the same time giving strict rules and extreme punishment for my own "crimes" and my little brother's "crimes" (because I apparently was suppose to teach him better). I understand the attraction to experience a loving father/daughter dynamic. I love when a D shows interest in my creative projects, when he protects me, when he spoils me and respect him when he punishes me when I need it cause I know he is doing it out of love and care for me. I am a fan of pet names and nick names. However, I have to have balance. I need him to know even though I enjoy the cute outfits, the plushies when I'm feeling overwhelmed or emotional, that I'm still a woman who can care for her family, home, finances and whatever else needs to be done. I'm not a child, I don't enjoy being made to feel inferior or weak. I know I'm a complicated soul and not everyone's cup of tea. I wanted to thank you for having  this discussion because this dynamic fascinates me as well as gives me the "ick" so I'm excited to learn more about this topic while I learn more about myself.

I once was seeing a Daddy Dom, we were just getting to know each other. He asked me to wear a diaper, I logged immediately and then when I came back I deleted and blocked him. *laughs*#

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well I guess that all "Depends" on the person!

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): sorry had to say it

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :P

 

[16:36] taryn (Taryn Topaz):   smiles "I was so nervous to share"

 

[16:36] taryn (Taryn Topaz): thank you A/all

 

[16:36] RB (RBQuinn Resident): *groans at Vanni's pun*

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): taryn that was spot on!

 

[16:36] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Well-said, Taryn!

 

[16:36] Jenine (Illana Kuu): I had to punt someone once.. I didn't even log... I just kick him so hard that I think he felt it in RL... taryn

 

[16:37] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): wonder if it is the same one i left with his head still spinning.

  

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and again I think it shows the spectrum here, some dynamics can have some of the BB/DD minus the more overt stereotypes we have.  There's nothing wrong with an s-type wanting a strong person to hold and depend on

 

[16:37] Jenine (Illana Kuu): I died laughing especially after I filled my Miss in...

 

[16:38] taryn (Taryn Topaz): <<<< not afraid to use the red X or the block button

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): yeah one time at a club (not Xaara) this guy wanted me to go home with him...and I was in the mood so I went...

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): first thing he said was "call me Daddy"

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): then he got into his wanting to "breed" his "little girl"

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I was out super fast

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm not gonna be the focus of some dood's incest fantasy

 

[16:39] Jenine (Illana Kuu): was his lower parts intact Miss Vanni?

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol we never got to seeing it LOL

 

[16:39] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): LOL

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): again...if people want to have that fantasy, fine...but make it *consensual* by asking if I'd WANT to do it

 

[16:40] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): ^^^^^^

 

[16:40] taryn (Taryn Topaz): right!!

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): because the answer would have been NO at the get-go

 

[16:40] Lora Nieuport (LoraSaenz1 Corvinus): nods

 

[16:40] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I wasted gas driving over here!!!

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:40] Jenine (Illana Kuu):   laughs to the point of tears

 

[16:40] taryn (Taryn Topaz): I'm gonna quote daks now "I did not consent to that!" *giggles*

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): isn't that a Hall and Oates song "I did not consent to that..nooo...no can do!"

 

[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Sounds like another parody we need to write Vanni

 

[16:41] taryn (Taryn Topaz): probably *giggles*

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Taryn thanks so much for that!

 

[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): YOu've got my Collar now you want my soul?

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL Johan

 

[16:41] taryn (Taryn Topaz): *:-:*'``'*My Pleasure*:-:*'``'*

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That was spot on and I'm glad you shared it!

 

[16:41] taryn (Taryn Topaz):   winks at Pilar

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): we go to Dion please!

 

[16:42] Dion Griffin (adrohi Resident): There was a mention of the word breed and it reminded me of Muffins

 

[16:42] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): haz to know how breeding and muffins connect...

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): SubMcMuffin?

 

[16:42] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): (Is scared and looking at his blueberries in a new light(

 

[16:42] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): facepalms.. MISS VANNI..that was horrible

 

[16:42] Dion Griffin (adrohi Resident): I think it is manipulative behavior as far as baby girl term is used by passive women

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee

 

[16:43] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Fast food Sub :) Subway ?  McMuffin ?  LOL

 

[16:43] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): How do you mean Sir Dion?

 

[16:43] Dion Griffin (adrohi Resident): Muffins is a game in sl about hucows and bulls

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): didn't know that!

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think it's possible that anyone can attempt to manipulate their other

 

[16:44] taryn (Taryn Topaz):   nods in agreement

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so it's reasonable to believe that some BBs do act that way to get things

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): just like some DDs do the same

 

[16:45] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): the infamous babygirl brat princess syndrome!!!

 

[16:45] Dion Griffin (adrohi Resident): it's not right to be silent and exert influence the wrong way

 

[16:45] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): agrees

 

[16:45] taryn (Taryn Topaz): hey! not all princesses are brats :P

 

[16:45] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): ^... It doesn't have to be a DD/bg dynamic for manipulation to occur,   though hopefully there will be informed consent in any dynamic regarding what is acceptable between the two (or more) parties.  FINDOM happens regularly as well.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): agreed Taryn!

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's another kind of dynamic that can produce real exploitation

 

[16:46] taryn (Taryn Topaz):   smiles and adjusts her crown

 

[16:46] Lora Nieuport (LoraSaenz1 Corvinus): well said Sir Johan

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but at the same time some findom, done ethically, can be acceptable....like a sub who can't control their finances so an ethical Dominant "OKs" purchases and helps them budget

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): your point is well taken, Dion!  Thanks!

  

[16:47] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):   nods in agreement with Johan an Vanni

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok I have one question to finish the discussion

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): think of it as your "happy ending..." ;)

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We see very few if any "BabyBoy/MommyDom" kind of dynamics, or at least them being called that way.  Do you think that would be seen as more problematic and maybe even pathological by people both out of and in the scene?  Just answer please, no C.

 

[16:49] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Yes

 

[16:49] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): I can head that way - yes

 

[16:49] Jenine (Illana Kuu): yes

 

[16:50] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think so.  I would view both in the same lihgt personally

 

[16:50] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think its along how we also don't see nearly as many male submissives either?  Maybe its a closeted thing out of fear of rejection/assumption?

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and why do you think it might be seen more problematic?

 

[16:50] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): because society is still sexist

 

[16:50] taryn (Taryn Topaz):   agrees with Hestia

 

[16:50] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): ^  That.. Toxic Masculinity

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): male subs are often regarded as "unmanly" by many, although I think Xaara has come a long way in rejecting that misguided view

 

[16:51] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Agreed

 

[16:51] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): agreed Miss Vanni

 

[16:52] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I certainly hope we have :) I know we try both in regards to that, and as well as promoting our Non-Binary members as well as Female Dominants as well :)

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): yes!

 

[16:52] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Submissive has never meant Weak - inferior - in any context.  There are very strong successful Male and Female Submissives --   and they can be a challenge to be their Dominant

 

[16:52] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Indeed Lngo

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think though that the idea of a male sub saying "Mommy" to his Mistress might really hit the uncanny valley in people and seem highly pathological

 

[16:53] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): Having been approached by male subs, I think there are subtle differences between male and female subs rather than the obvious.  And I think Hestia's comment probably explains a good bit of it

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): like "is this infantilism?"

 

[16:53] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): could not be ME Master Lngo.....because i am just a sweet innocent little old grey haired lady!!! )fluttering eyelashes(

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):   giggles

 

[16:53] taryn (Taryn Topaz): uh oh i word!!!

 

[16:53] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): chuckles

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "innocent...innocent of WHAT?"  -- Little Bill Daggett in "Unforgiven"

 

[16:54] Jenine (Illana Kuu): Innocent?

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The last time I went to confession I got run out with pitchforks so I ain't very "innocent"

 

[16:54] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I'm not innocent, but I've never been proven Guilty

 

[16:55] RB (RBQuinn Resident):   wishes he had a rimshot ....

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[16:55] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ty

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): anyway I wanted to ask that question as we rarely see the BabyBoy/MommyDom

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): although i have hung around in SL femdoms and I can attest some relationships do go into it even if it's not *called* BB/MD

 

[16:56] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):   nods

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): any final thoughts?

 

[16:57] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): I plead the fifth, but will beg for a half gallon!

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thank you all for this great discussion!

 

[16:57] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Great discussion Vanni - always informative - and engaging - and amazing !  I am glad to be back to the Klatch after a long reprise.

 

[16:57] Dion Griffin (adrohi Resident): thanks

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): we'll be back here in two weeks with "Service Tops and Bottoms"

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and Johan spins next week at the Pier!  don't miss it!

 

[16:58] Dion Griffin (adrohi Resident): whats that?

 

[16:58] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): Excellent conversation and really appreciate everyone's perspective!