Third Party Consent -- October 18, 2026

 [15:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok it's time, let's get started

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have some exposition to start us off

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so as I ramble on a bit drop a C or a Q in the queue and then we'll get to comments and questions

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Since we started with this set of discussions in March, we have gone through the entire BDSM paradigm step by step.  We finished that two weeks ago.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Now we move to more general topics

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we discuss the idea of "Third Party Consent"

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): This idea suggests that when we do a scene that is 100% consensual between the parties *directly* involved, the consent of people around also needs to be taken in to consideration.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): For example, when we were talking about the "Brat" style submissive...

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Even if the Dominant who owns and controls said "Brat" is 100% fine with the bratty behavior...does the Brat get to do their thing in public where others will see it.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As they may not get it and become annoyed

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think we all agree if I started flogging a bottom at the local Costco, that would be out of bounds.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Although it would be my kind of "sample booth" really...

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:44] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident):  giggles

 

[15:44] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  looks for the tenderized rump roast

 

[15:44] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "Attention Costco Shoppers, we have a special demonstration on Paddles today taking place in our Meat Department"

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): What about here at Xaara though?

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We are clearly an adult-rated, BDSM sim.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): How much expectation is there, if any, that we should curtail our BDSM activities in public here?

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Do we need to ask visitors if they mind seeing a sub leashed, or people dressed in provocative outfits?  Or calling their Dominant "Master" or "Mistress?"  Is consent implied when they arrive here?

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So, that's the question for today...is Third Party Consent something we have to take serious concern over?  If so, where and in what bounds?  And if vanillas come to Xaara, how careful do we have to be, or do we at all?

 

[08:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): And...how does this translate to First Life?  If I want to do something sorta kinky out in public, do I have to ask people first?  Or is it my problem if there's an issue?

 

[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): ooo lots of Cs!  I love it!

 

[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): ok Nawa we will start with you when ready!

 

[08:48] Nawa (moringward82): I get Irked /irritaded by Brats, not when they are roleplaying with their Brat Tamers i they own consentual Dynamic, but when they inadvertently involve others that have not consented to it and that happens a lot, I can say from my experience Brats are usually the One role that i see mostly breaking consent with third parties. I love to see good bratting, when this is consentual, and in the correct setting, read the room. #

 

[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): I get that, it can be a bit....frustrating with the really "serious" brats...I think general bratting isn't a problem though, and has to fall into the "we all have our thing".

 

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): But I do want to point out this is more than just brats....

 

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): As an example, a few years ago during the Xmas Tree lighting ceremony we do every year

 

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): this guy shows up, sees the community about the tree and submissives kneeling

 

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): and he goes into a TIZZY

 

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): "Why are these submissives kneeling?  They're HUMAN!  This is an outrage to their persons!"

 

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): We were like..."dude...do you know where you are?"

 

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): he left in a huff

 

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): so did we need to explain to him he might have the HORROR of subs kneeling here?

 

[08:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): I just don’t want to focus on bratty behavior; we did that a few weeks ago :P

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Nawa!!

 

[15:52] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  eyes gleam "burn welcome mat at his feet?"

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Rachel, you're up please!

 

[15:52] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): I just had a small comment.  Xaara has been a really really safe zone for me and I have no fears of others doing things to me without consent...I think there might need extra thoughts of doing anything without consent especially to those that are skittish to begin with.

 

[15:53] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): As far as what visitors see when they get here...they should have expected a BDSM community with leashes, titles of Master/Mistress...but since they are visitor any interaction beyond that I say has to be consent.

 

[15:53] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Miss Vanni if you want to do First Life Kink in public...just remember the RL laws...grins #

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Naturally!

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): In a few weeks we'll do the talk on "Stealth BDSM" again...and how you can be kinky under the noses of the vanillas! :P

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And I do think we agree that getting anyone involved in a scene requires their consent...I can't just go up and start flogging someone

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But some have argued "if they come here they need to give consent to *see* things."

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and that's the crux for today

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Rachel!

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan we come to you please!

 

[15:55] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *Roll for Save Vs. Johan's Wall of Text*

 

[15:55] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): This is a subject near and dear to my heart, and I think there is room for nuance.  For example - its well known this is a BDSM and D/s centric Adult SIM.  I believe there is an expectation of play to be witnessed (Leashed, kneeling, use of Honorifics/Protocols, etc.)    But I also think there are certain expectations of what is considered inappropriate as well.  For Bondage A GoGo you might see in addition to the above more explicit forms of Bondage up to and including sexual play, that might not be as appropriate at the Fountain Gathering or during the Angel/Seraph Ceremonies, or during the Vannis' Koffee KLatch (Feel free to do so publicly during my Easy Like a Sun Morning Set )

To add - in our Guidelines and Rules we expect everyone to be "Respectful" - and to a point sometimes the public Bratting play becomes publicly disrespectful.  What do we do at that point?     In my opinion, we CAN ask/expect to say something IF it becomes disrupting. But otherwise if its not a disruption - we all can use the Mute/Block button freely. #

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hey I don't mind a good sex scene during Klatch...but remember, I'm the East German judge..."no...9.3 only on form, not 10." :P

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): also I've mentioned this before...

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): a few years ago when we were still doing the big Sunday night discussions at the Pier, a couple just started having sex in one of the chairs

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): they said nothing in chat, but they got naked and went at it in the middle of a discussion

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I looked to see if Laz or Jamesen or anyone would say something but nope...they just went at it and we kept going!

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so it has happened!

 

[15:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Yes, I probably should have been more specific of "in local chat" vs. just animation too :)   Great Point!

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): it was interesting to say the least

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but one other point to consider...we do have sex chairs here, at the Pier (or have) and other kinky things about the sim

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and the owners have said "open play is fine"....

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so I guess it's the community that decides how open is open

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Johan!

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia you're up please!

 

[16:00] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): NOTE: the RP play observed at Bondage A GOGO last night was thrilling to observe. Well done, hot..and respectful but erotic and sensual at every turn.

This is an Adult rated, BDSM Sim. Thus consideration of the A aspect ..means open sexuality is on display, or can be on display. BDSM might need its own explanation, as some of the Vanilla world does not grasp its full depth and culture.

 

However...if one follows the website, one of the implied tenants is "respect" . This not only means respect by those observing, but respect demonstrated by those observed.

 

IF deep humiliation is your thing, fine, but respect that it might not be everyone’s thing, and if you try to "force" it upon observers, expect to be rebuffed in some manner. There is, of course, a time and place for everything. Me...i simply get up and leave with no comment.

 

One would not take kindly to bad behaviour or a sudden display of open intercourse during the Seraph Ceremony. Or having your "piggie on a leash" suddenly walk on the stage during an XA show. #

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said!

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  sighs and scratches off "Open Intercourse at Seraph Graduation" from the bucket list

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :P

 

[16:02] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): well darn

 

[16:02] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): laughs in RL!

 

[16:02] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  grins "before is okay Miss Vanni"

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh oh ok!

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  rewrites

 

[16:02] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "We can always pretend a ceremony is going on.." chuckles.

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): that was all well said Hestia

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and I think "know your audience" is important

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The website is pretty clear, "Xaara has few rules, we expect everyone to be adults."

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If it were just that easy!!

 

[16:03] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  mumbles "and your partner in sex"

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ha!

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I hope so!

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): 15 will get you 20 years, ya know

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Hestia!

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Salis we come to you please!

 

[16:04] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): At Xaara, as long as we follow any sim rules, or TOS rules, consent from people around do not need to be consulted.  I would also note that I almost never see any real BDSM play going on here. Anyone in SL has the power to block someone at any time. #

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It is pretty rare that anything beyond leashing, kneeling and such "fairly light" stuff goes on openly

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We have playrooms for that and they're pretty lightly used too

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I guess people go home for the flogging and intercourse

 

[16:06] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): a well done public scene is always a joy to observe.

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think you made a good point that as long as we follow the basic rules we're good Salis

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh yes!!!!

 

[16:06] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "That would be a whole wonderful discussion topic I think Vanni, I know Chew had it briefly the other night during the Chew Chat but an in depth one of 'what we expect in public play at a BDSM centric SIM"

 

[16:06] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:06] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): HERE HERE!!!! YES and Yeah varily and forsooth!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): could be a good one!

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): with a demo!

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): any volunteers?

 

[16:07] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): gets in the volunteer line

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok before we get a bunch of wet panties, let's move on :P

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Salis!

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sydney dear you are up please!

 

[16:08] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): Playful short respectful bratting might be ok without 3rd party consent... by short I mean not going on and on ... if the brat is expressing herself in a borderline disrespect or might be embarrassing to her Dom or other Doms/subs around ... it will probably cross the line with others nearby and should not occur. #

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I totally agree Sydney!

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): See there have been some people that have argued "if people have to SEE the scene, they need to give consent"

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Not saying I agree but that has been a point made over the years

 

[16:10] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Sim rules Rule

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a second story I’ll tell later as I want to keep the queue moving but I'll want your opinions when we get to it

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much Sydney! ♥

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Mr. Darrow we are up to you please!

 

[16:11] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): Thank you Vanni- I opine this needs to be taken in context, if one is in a RL Club, then one expects to see RL sexuality- if in Costco- No.

 

Similarly if one is on an adult sim in SL one should expect to see SL sexuality, if you are offended by SL sexuality do not frequent an Adult sim.  The idea that any of us should moderate our SL sexuality to appease others is them kink shaming because of their mindset-that they should determine what is acceptable.  Yet I acknowledge as I began - context is important. (more)

 

[16:12] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): Another thought-in my opinion males tend to abuse women more in IM, then they would dare do in nearby.  By embracing a mentality that we should keep anything past R rated in private, fosters such abuse.  (done)

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree totally with your first point, context is key and we need to all be adults.

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But to be sure I understand the second

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If we tell people "keep your R+ talk in IM" then they have an avenue for abuse....but aren't they just abusive anyway?

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I get the point and approve but I'm not sure how us saying "say what you want openly" would reduce the sick behavior?

 

[16:16] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): as far as abuse goes, even as submissives we need to remember our responsibility to ourselves, if someone gets in private and you do not consent you have to end it (unless I am misunderstanding)

 

[16:16] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): My humble opinion if we are more accepting of open sexuality then abusers will go to another place where they can be in hiding.

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ahhh!

 

[16:17] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Its an interesting thought, and I think I can see it in a manner of speaking. There are people who will behave respectfully and gentlemanly in public - then a complete Monster in private (non-consensual)  who then fall back on the defense of "They were never that way when I saw them... she's making things up"

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, I understand, thanks for the clarification and the thoughts :)

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very good point Mr. Darrow and thanks for the thoughts on it Emma and Johan.  We want NO abuse here at Xaara.  Zero tolerance.

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said and thank you :) ♥

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Emma we come to your comment please

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): here goes lol

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): I had typed my comment up others have kind of said my thoughts somewhat - I think it is a question of respect and expectation. (I have a wall of chat - sorry - I ramble, but this is an important topic I think, I've postponed weekend sale shopping!)

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): When someone comes to a place like Xaara, I believe it's implied consent on what goes on (within set rules and it's up to the person to find out what those are) and they are obligated to respect that or they can go somewhere else. On the opposite side of it, when someone lifestyle goes somewhere where there are different rules & expectations, they should do the same. (my personal experience here in SL has been quite one sided in that).

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): To put it RL terms - you would expect to see leashes, kneeling, awesome leathers & fetish-wear at Hellfire Club in NYC, but not at Tavern on the Green (and odds are they'd make you leave if you tried).

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): I realize this is SL and there are differences of course and more extremes we can safely experience but if we are true in our beliefs about how we live in any life, why would we not want to show people a respectful & true side of a lifestyle with so many misconceptions even here? #

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We appreciate your restraint...on shopping...more restraint let's negotiate :P

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And yes....time, place and context is all super important.

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I was asked to leave Muddy's a couple times because the host/ess thought my "dress was too short" and I had to change or leave....their rules, their show.

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): if I walked in there wearing a harness showing off my bobbiez they'd have a heart attack, and I'd get 30 IMs

 

[16:21] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): and banned

 

[16:22] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): many mainstream clubs actually have written rules against displaying leashes and such

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But at the same time, coming to an Adult BDSM sim and screaming about "kneeling subs!" like Mr. Christmas Tree did is just as absurd as me going to Muddy's in a harness

 

[16:22] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): i once got asked to leave a club because i had GOR groups in my list of groups!!!

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): yes they do Cyan

 

[16:22] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): thats taking vanilla touch far IMO

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's just silly IMO Hestia

 

[16:23] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I mean going to a place in silks with a "Kajira" title...ok maybe

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but just a group?  come on

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Emma that was spot on and I have made two saves vs "Wall of Text" today :P

 

[16:24] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident):  was asked to hide her dirty groups before she could arrive at a specific sim once

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I just wouldn't go there

 

[16:24] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): thank You

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): sensible rules are fine....that's just silly

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa back to you please

 

[16:24] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): I would like to give a few examples that have happened to me here in Xaara,i have just pushed it behind me, and now have a little pick on my Profile that clearly states i do not allow Fantasy Pushing. The first example was, someone i had never met or spoken to neither Public/IM chat, approaches me and tells me to kneel and kiss his feet. Reactions instant block. I believe in building rapport, sorry, sue me im not a real submissive as i´ve read before. The second one was someone making a full on description of what they´d do to me, bound in a latex suit in various predicament positions..etc. reaction - no thank you, again rapport and i don´t know you or have a consensual dynamic with you. third, in a class someone started bratting when others shared their personal stories or experiences.... a big NO for me,  i found that extremely rude/disruptive to everyone present, but since no one else said anything and i was fairly new and still am to the Sim, my reaction was getting up and leave the classroom. Now if you think these examples have broken my consent or not, that is entirely your opinion of what has happened, We all have boundaries we do not allow others to cross, I behave in SL the same way i behave in RL i respect everyone and expect respect in return as long as i/you do not involve others physically/personal by placing them directly in play without consent everyone should be fine and happy to live their dynamics and roles. #

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa, I agree in those scenarios you gave, that was just pure disrespect to you as a person

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Submissives....and women...are NOT some dood's masturbation tool

 

[16:26] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Unless they consent to be that :)

 

[16:27] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): consent, key word

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And over the years I've had similar things in my IM box and I've just muted instantly with no reply

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh sure....for the right person and time and place I might be a really dirty slut....*grins*

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but context matters!

 

[16:27] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Exactly - and Nawa if that happens - blocking/muting, and even reporting them to SIM Management are all good responses :)

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and just going from "Hi" to a wall of text of what you want to do to me.....BZZZZZZZT

 

[16:28] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): a good witty comback often shuts them up. Guy sent me a dick pick...said he would love to see a pick of my vagina. I told him to look in the mirror cause he was clearly a Giant twat..

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!

 

[16:28] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  hands Hestia a gold star

 

[16:29] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *makes a note of that*

 

[16:29] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lol

 

[16:29] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): it was a fugly dick pick too! hehe

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If I WANT to see your thang I'll say so!

 

[16:29] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): (not sure why the ugly ones are usually the ones they want to show off?)

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ego problems

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lack of self esteem

 

[16:30] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): only pick they could show?

 

[16:30] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think my favorite I've seen was someone asked if 'they could talk to it" and the guy said yes.. so they replied with a Gif of Dory from Finding Nemo saying "Hey little guy"

 

[16:30] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): snorts with laughter

 

[16:30] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lolol

 

[16:30] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa excellent points!  And sorry you've had that happen here.  But it's an open sim and we do get some of the bottom feeders.

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Autumn thanks for waiting you are up

 

[16:31] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I know I have some kinks that wouldn't appeal to everything, so personally, I do my best to limit certain things, say certain Honorifics when in a group where I don't know everyone, because I don't want to accidentally trigger someone.  Now, somethings vary based on where in SL, or say, even where in Xaara I am.  Some of it to me is as simple as read the room.  I remember in Gor a couple times, girls showing their "need" during formal events, and that is just not the time or place.  But to go to a BDSM sim of any kind, you have to know you are consenting to being around adult themes, it would be like going to a BDSM club in RL and getting offended.  So, there are a lot of factors that come into play, which is why I tend to be more cautious in large groups, read the room, and try not to upset anyone.  #

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said!!

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And believe it or not, a few times over  the years at my RL club, we have had a few new folks show up and get all bent out of shape over scenes they found "distasteful"

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): They were told "go look elsewhere or leave"

 

[16:33] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident):  shakes my head

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the young guys who showed up and thought we were a sex club were funny though

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "what's going on here...I thought we'd get laid?"

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the Dungeon Monitor said "no but you might get whipped, kid."

 

[16:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Meanwhile in my book, I wrote a scene where someone took the FMC to a BDSM Club and he was shocked that there wasn't orgies going on everywhere

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): JINX!

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): art mirrors life, Johan!

 

[16:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *subtle plug you can find my book on KindleU for free*

[16:35] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): get you laid? we are BDSM club, not miracle workers

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL Princess

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  perks at "plug" then settles back in her chair

 

[16:35] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): I went to a RL playparty at a Domme's house, was a regular monthly thing - rules were no sex....sex happened in the room one day - I was a bit put off to be honest lol, I just left the room

 

[16:35] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): but her house her rules

 

[16:35] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): even in on premise swing clubs ...consent is requireed...everywhere but the orgy room (RL experience here)

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yeah we only allow penetrative sex at very specific parties

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): known in advance

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  makes a few notes to speak to Hestia later...

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :P

 

[16:36] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): giggles....am an open book!

 

[16:36] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): yeah...like being "innocent"?

 

[16:36] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): snorts

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): of what exactly?

 

[16:36] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): shhh Rachel!

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Autumn excellent comment!

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks! ♥

 

[16:37] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): grins

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to wombi with a question

 

[16:38] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): What is implied consent and how does this apply here? If you participate in activities, active consent is needed. To watch is giving implied "implied consent". Although, knowing the event you are at. Play is fine, just not in the middle of a discussion. Apropo should be the rule. Also, there should be a warning about "3rd party consent" for visitors. "You may see active BDSM ..." #

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think "Implied Consent" is "if you come to an Adult BDSM sim that is labeled that way in search, you are consenting to dealing with what you see here or leaving."

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Does anyone else think that works or is more or less needed?  (no C just answer please)

 

[16:40] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): Sadly common sense is not so common especially in SL - but do the problem happen often enough to merit more details given?

 

[16:40] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think it works.  Its the same as nude beaches.  go to a nude beach, expect to see nude avi's

 

[16:40] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol, i was just about to say the same Emma

 

[16:40] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): People are idiots. Don't understand "implied" means to them. lol

 

[16:40] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): agreed wombi...people can be incredibly dim

 

[16:40] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I agree, implied consent, for me, means I will leave if something happens that I wasn't expecting.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Stupidity cannot be cured by legislation or education."  -- Robert Heinlein

 

[16:41] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): go to Japan, expect to see people kneeling eating their sushi

 

[16:41] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): I agree with you Vanni, if you land on an Adult sim, you have consented to adult themes, as you said about folks getting offended at a RL Club: new folks show  up and get all bent out of shape over scenes they found "distasteful"

“Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): They were told "go look elsewhere or leave"”

 

[16:42] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Good question my friend!   So we teach the class on "Consent"  which in many BDSM terms we consider consent to be 'explicit'.   (Updating the course soon hopefully to include CCCC model of consent).  So for BDSM activities themselves there is a specific discussion of what is going to occur, and what each party agrees to.    However, Implied Consent does not necessarily apply to BDSM/kink - scenes itself but more of a general idea.   Sydney and I are in a consensual relationship - we agreed beforehand (and often and regularly update our consent) - but there are some things we have 'tacitly' implied are ok.  Her kneeling at my feet, her defering to me as her Dominant, etc. and as Vannis said, when you are in certain space - there is a expectation of social behavior one agrees to in that space.

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Like Emma said..."Our house our rules"...

 

[16:42] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): (sorry recently saw a meme - I'm told I need anger management? , how about setting up some stupid management?)

 

[16:42] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): Ran into a situation where someone was doing RP in chat at an event that was not appropriate. I just left, since it was in an area that I didn't like. I left

 

[16:42] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): that is what i do wombi. i just leave

 

[16:43] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): or i block them!

 

[16:43] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): WE do it, others go full "Karen/Kyle" mode. lol

 

[16:43] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): we already have enough stupid management in Washington

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We always need to remember that what I or we think is "inappropriate" isn't what everyone else might think is "inappropriate" there

 

[16:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): ooh thts a good way to put it, Implied consent is like TOS.  You agree to it when you sign up/show up

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok so I have a short story to end us

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I want your opinions on this

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and a couple of you *may* have heard this

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So a number of years ago I was at a workshop at a local BDSM expo

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and a Dom guy was explaining this thing he did with his sub

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): she LOVES being objectified and humiliated in public

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): totally consensual and she gets really turned on

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so they would go to a restaurant (as an example he gave)

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and he wouldn't let her see a menu

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and when the server came up he would order first for himself

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): then point at his girl and say "IT will have the chicken pasta, and IT will have the garden salad, and IT will have a glass of chardonnay"

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and she said she would get all wet hearing that

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but when I've told this story some people get upset

 

[16:49] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Why?

 

[16:49] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Because of the use of IT

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "The server didn't consent.  The people in the restaurant didn't consent.  How could they do that?"

 

[16:49] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): the server

 

[16:49] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so what think y'all?

 

[16:50] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I think if he just ordered for her, with out the use of IT, it would be fine, but by using IT, you are including the server, and that's not ok

 

[16:50] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): because in todays society, it would be seen as borderline abuse of a woman.  and in terms of our chat, it was borderline forcing a kink upon someone whom did not consent to be involved...?

 

[16:50] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): brings up my other thought of the recipient wanting the abuse

 

[16:50] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): I might have broken many times the consent of Waiters in RL

 

[16:50] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter):  agrees with Autumn

 

[16:50] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think I agree that the server didn't consent.  And you could be setting yourself up for "issues" by being asked to leave, etc.

 

[16:50] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident):  thinks the server did not agree to become part of this roleplay, they shuld not be required to listen to it

 

[16:50] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes, because how is the server to know she consented to that, I would first assume abuse as a server

 

[16:51] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:51] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): and reinforces the misconceptions of lifestyle being abuse among those who do not understand as well

 

[16:51] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): wrong place and time in my opinion to do that scene

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): All very good points!

 

[16:51] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Great point Emma!

 

[16:51] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): thank you :)

 

[16:51] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): RL? That idiot was pushing to go to jail. A simple explanation  of "We are doing some RP as a Master and servant". would have helped.

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but (and this was his counter) how could they do it minus just doing it....

 

[16:51] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): this is a very close call for Me---I fall on the side of the use of the word "it" ~ It is too strong of a word to use in vanilla Public; if He said "she" then that falls on the OK side,

 

[16:51] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): i consider it disrespectful but does it cross the line and needs consent?

 

[16:52] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Even could have used They instead of it, and it would have been ok

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I do think that's fine at the club btw, not at a restaurant

 

[16:52] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident):  agrees with Toby

 

[16:53] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Firstly I agree with everyone - but to counterpoint, that could be a scale of egregiousness.  Referring to a person as "It" is between the two and they didn't force the waiter and other patrons to also refer to her as 'it'  - so its really not much difference than if he'd walked her in on a leash or made her kneel by the table out of the way.

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): in fact I've used that line at our club during FemDom parites..."IT will get me a diet coke" and subs go running to comply :P

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That was his logic Johan

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "I'm not making them say anything to her.”

 

[16:54] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I just think in today's society of the "easily offended"  you are setting yourself up for issues...

 

[16:54] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I personally wouldn't do that. Nor do I think Sydney would agree or consent to it,   but its one of those If I were the waiter I'd probably talk shit about them later.

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Likely

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It sort of encapsulates the whole idea of "third party consent" so it's why I tell it

 

[16:54] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): personally I am always in any situation not wanting to make anyone uncomfortable even for my own pleasure or displeasure - so deep no for me

 

[16:55] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident):  nods in agreement with Emma

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): All good points!

 

[16:55] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Because we also are assuming whether the waiter was bothered by it..  I don't think the other patrons in the restuarant would even be aware unless he was LOUDLY using "IT"

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): he didn't say what the server said

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): or did or thought

 

[16:56] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): and the waiter may have gotten over it with a big enough tip? ;-)

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): likely the server just looked at them, thought "weirdos" and kept working

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Food servers see and deal with a lot of strange people!

 

[16:57] Gɾαcєє Lєє (Magen Miles): c to Cyan "yes I remember days we could have a respectful discussion on having different views then a peer and it not turn into offended"

 

[16:57] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:57] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): Maybe they were already into a D/s relationship and was heavy into BDSM? lol

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the Dom guy and his girl I was talking about, Wombi?

 

[16:58] Gɾαcєє Lєє (Magen Miles): It was something also mentioned at Master Chews Chat how our society easily offened now #

 

[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): If I were the waiter (and not into kink) I would think to myself "what in the 'it puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets eczema again" is going on?"

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lolol

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): well remember we kick the can around here, not solve world peas

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): any final comments?

 

[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Mmmm whirled peas

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  giggles

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok thank you all for commenting and being here!

 

[16:59] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): it all comes down to respect. :)

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): See you here in two weeks!

 

[16:59]  (Jack O' Lantern Discussion Tracker): Thank you for attending this discussion.

 

[16:59]  (Jack O' Lantern Discussion Tracker): The tracker is now off and the floor is open to everyone.

 

[16:59] Violet Stuer (Violet Stuer): Many thanks, Miss Vanessa

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed Hestia!

 

[16:59] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Great discussion Vanni!  I've been anxiously awaiting this topic to hear it :)

 

[16:59] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): now where is that spanking line????? are there treats????

 

[16:59] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): Thanks E/everyone for the great discussion!

 

[16:59] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh well we'll have the demo in a few weeks :P

 

[16:59] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): Thank you A/all - I've learned a lot and have new things to consider!

 

[16:59] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Thank you Miss Vanni and E/everyone...great discussion

Submissive vs Slave -- October 4, 2026

 [15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have some starting exposition as usual

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so as I yap for a bit feel free to put in a C or a Q to the queue and then when I'm done we'll go down said queue

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we finish our probe..heh heh...she said probe...of the BDSM acronym and D/s in particular.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Starting in two weeks we will get to more general topics on BDSM and D/s.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Today is a discussion on the difference between a sub and a slave.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Along with the Brat, which was our topic two weeks ago, this is one of the more divisive topics one will find in reference to BDSM and D/s.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If you get on a BDSM forum, website or just talk to the kinky folks live, you'll get twenty different opinions from twenty different people on what it means to be a "sub" or a "slave" and whatever is between them.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So there is obviously no "right answer" here.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): What it means to be a sub, or a slave, or whatever we are, is a deeply personal thing for each of us.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But it's always good to get opinions and ideas about things. It's how we learn.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As far as "sub vs slave", I'm sure we all agree there is some differentiation between the two. What is it?

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Is it some kind of quantifiable difference? "I'm a 3 on the slavery index while you're a 9?"

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Pushes the Sociologist in me back in the box..."Bad index!"

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Is it purely qualitative...if a person *feels* they are a slave or a sub, they are?

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Is it something that requires people outside to look at a person and say "you are a sub/slave/whatever?"

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And...one final thought...what is it that attracts Dominants to a certain kind of person...sub to slave? What are the expectations?

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I will not give my opinion on this now, I want to hear the ideas of the August Assembly.

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And of course we will all respect the differences we might have, we are just kicking the can around. :)

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok elara, you are up first when ready!

 

[15:49] elara (GiadaGalatea Resident): I have served in both capacities, some time ago as a gorean slave, but the most recent being that of a slave in a 24/7 dynamic both 2L and carrying over into my real life.  I can only speak from my experiences, which may not fit the ‘definition’ of what a “slave” is and when I do it is in reference to my most recent experience.  I think it’s important to mention that the ‘conditions’ of my slavery were only truly set in place when my Master and I had a close enough relationship that I could put the amount of trust into His hands that I did.  So when I say that I had no limits, and I had no choices, it was with the trust that He would breach no former limit of mine or make a choice for me that was going to intentionally harm me physically, psychologically or harm O/our relationship. In short, He had been a Master the majority of His life, knew what He was doing in terms of what it takes to be responsible, even if His slave lived on the other side of the world.  It felt “free” to not have to make choices (realistically the important ones. I wasn’t going to be texting Him all day about what flavor of ice cream to get), and quite frankly arousing to hand over myself entirely to One who had only my best interests in mind, knowing that only when I was healthy and happy, could I truly serve Him and meet His needs.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent!

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I find interesting that you saw it as he made the essential decisions for what you did together and how to serve him, while at the same time you weren't expecting him to tell you what ice cream to get or what lipstick to wear on Tuesday afternoon.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): (by the way it's Neapolitan and Berry Red from Revlon...we'll talk later) :P

 

[15:52] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Try the fish!

 

[15:52] elara (GiadaGalatea Resident): Lol

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's really good elara, and now as  you explore Xaara as a submissive I'd take it the power exchange is more "what you are willing to give" for now?

 

[15:53] elara (GiadaGalatea Resident): Yes, Miss Vanni.  I"ve had to reacclimate myself into realizing my limits all over again, among other things

 

[15:54] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): Just to me it is a question of permanence and depth of commitment. I have play sessions with Subs and consideration collars perhaps, a slave to me is one that has a permanent collar and deep commitment to longevity and depth of trust but it is I agree a simplification.

 

[15:54] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): sorry accidentally hit send

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Elara, and I'm glad  you're happy here and can explore!

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok now we come to Cee ;)

 

[15:54] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): Just to me it is a question of permanence and depth of commitment. I have play sessions with Subs and consideration collars perhaps, a slave to me is one that has a permanent collar and deep commitment to longevity and depth of trust but it is I agree a simplification.

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's understandable Cee.

 

[15:55] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I am a slave on the other side of the slash #

 

[15:55] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Q For Cee

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So you would expect a submissive that took your collar to be a slave to you?  I'm just asking for clarification.

 

[15:56] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): not at all

 

[15:56] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): First we would have to compare definitions and wants and needs #

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): nods

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Makes sense, Nawa you had a question for Cee?  go ahead

 

[15:58] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Yes, I would assume the level of commitment and depth of trust is gained with time?

 

[15:58] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): yes

 

[15:58] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): So you would not be having a slave first you would have a submisive who will in time grow to a slave?

 

[15:59] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I guess I would also say to me a sub MAY be collared or not a slave is always collared

 

[15:59] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): yes Nawa

 

[15:59] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Thank you! #´

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Cee!  Great comments so far!

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Kendra we come to you please!

 

[16:00] Kendra (Kendra Chemistry): I looked up a definition, and I got "A slave is a person who is legally owned as property by another, deprived of personal freedom, and forced to provide unpaid labor or services under the threat of violence or coercion."  Thinking of my personal situation, that pretty much matches.... I've been sold a few times without my consent, don't have any choices (but my owners have granted me privileges) and I'm forced to work for free.

 

[16:01] Kendra (Kendra Chemistry): I would say that's in addition to being a sub. #

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  gets some mops and brooms ready then...

 

[16:01] Lexis Evertied (Lexis Doll): So.. in other words, a sub can chose their master, a slave cannot?  As a distinction between the two

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It should be understood, of course, that no one can be a *legal* slave -- slavery is forbidden in any nation, understanding that illegal human traifficking and slavery still goes on.

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So slavery is something more...social.

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Lexis, sometimes a slave is sold to another...but...that would have to be in Kendra's limits too.

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If I in theory "owned" her I couldn't simply sell her minus her having some form of consent, and she would have to trust me i would not sell her to a freak that would harm her.

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so that level of trust is super-high.

 

[16:04] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): C at Kendra

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): quick the queue is large, go Nawa

 

[16:05] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Its just regarding the consent part, if you have given your freedom freely without initial coercion than wouldnt you say you have given consent?

 

[16:05] Lexis Evertied (Lexis Doll): Okay, I get it. Kendra said 'Sold without my consent', but that doesn't necessarily mean 'against my limits'

 

[16:06] Kendra (Kendra Chemistry): Yes, it was a path I wanted to go down, and I like it.

 

[16:06] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): c

 

[16:06] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): CNS, but still consensual

 

[16:06] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Thank you!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): CNC yes :)

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Kendra thanks!  Great comment!

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia to you please

 

[16:07] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): i Can only qualify the difference based on my Gorean experience. ALL submissives ..persae....were SLAVES, there were/was no other option. As a Slave...you were not seen as a person, but as livestock. To which they could do ANYTHING they wanted to, and you had absolutely NO right to say NO. to do so could...and sometimes did lead to you being killed or maimed in some fashion. It did not matter if you were a kennel slave, or privately owned. ALL the above applied....Which included being sold or rented to anyone.....regardless of how you might feel about them.

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very good point

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and to some Gorean "slavery" is indeed the "gold standard"

 

[16:08] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Grins at Mistress.

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But I also think that 'round these here parts our idea of a "slave" might be considerably softer

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And of course in SL no one has to put up with something they find intolerable.  Worst case the little "x" at the top is the final "safeword."

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): all very well said, thank you Hestia!

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cyan we come to you please!

 

[16:10] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): To me, the difference is the degree of control.  A sub is more of a partner with rules, subordinate, but still a partner.  A slave is a sub who desires to give up control, whether to a dgree or totally.  My current two have a desire to give up total control.  Thus they are restricted to certain places and have rules in terms of dress, activities, and even have "chores" to do. I still abode by their limits and they do have a say if they wish to end the arrangement, but it is fulfilling a need of theirs to give up control to go "deep" as my one says....  so to me, it is the degree of control and can dovetail with a TPE relationship quite well.

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Right, well said

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee hold on please

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cyan when we look at power exchange, I agree it's not "either/or" whatever our Gorean friends might think

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "You are free or slave, nothing in between "

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): or "you are sub or slave, nothing in between" in non-Gor

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Power exchange is a spectrum

 

[16:13] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and only the sub/slave and the Dominant can really define it for themselves and between themselves, so I agree myself with what you said

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Cyan, good comment!

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :)

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne we come to you please

 

[16:14] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I've been asked to take both slaves and subs under command. In every case, the slaves desired to have minimal autonomy about aspects of the M/s relationship. To the greatest extent possible they sought to cede their ability to revoke consent (within a SSC environment). So they invested that trust either from the ouutset or over time in each case. In general subs have more areas of their live to which they do not grant access. For me, consent still must be explicit at some point.Whether it is a well-considered step to renounce control needs to be worked through on a case by case basis. Gorean is a different case as it is an alien world with its own values and norms. Goreans cannot judge Earthe norms and vice versa. We speak different languages in these matters.

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): right, people doing Gorean RP are in a totally different "universe"....very poorly written books but still "different" :P

 

[16:15] elara (GiadaGalatea Resident): nods

 

[16:16] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): almost incalculable differences

 

[16:16] Jenine Kuu (Illana Kuu):  nods "very different"

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Y'all do know there are RL "goreans"...they try to live their lives according to Norman's philosophy

 

[16:16] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): nods

 

[16:16] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:16] Jenine Kuu (Illana Kuu):  nods "remembering Sol"

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I was looking at one of their message boards years ago -- the Masters were chatting about if their kajira women (wives/girlfriends) should vote or not

 

[16:17] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): it is different when there are no other alternatives and where earth girls were kidnapped and sold into Gor as uneducated slaves to who everything just 'happened'

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Most thought no

 

[16:17] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Yes i know a couple RL..and they SAY the live Gorean...but they really do not

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): One said "how about we fill out their ballots for them" and they all *loved* that idea

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so right, how the gorean folks go is their biz and more power to them!

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I'll stay on earth and decide what outfit to wear tyvm

 

[16:18] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): it is a slave dimension that muddies the water for a lot of folk

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Shayne!

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Lexis we come to you please!

 

[16:18] Lexis Evertied (Lexis Doll): So, I think my philosophy on sub/slave is the difference is somatic, they are both 'fantasies' that we want to experience as 'real' as we can accept. The difference then is in degree and depth of what limits are set. So it comes down to the connotations those labels have... being labeled a 'slave' has a very different feel to having a 'submissive' title. One suggests a far more powerful dynamic than the other... even if there isn't any difference in real terms of how they act or play. I am a 'sub'... who also loves being a 'slave' too... n#

 

[16:19] RB (RBQuinn Resident):  ﺴ✶ﺴ✶ﺴ Aρρℓαυsє ★ Aρρℓαυsє ★ Aρρℓαυsє ﺴ✶ﺴ✶ﺴ

 

[16:19] elara (GiadaGalatea Resident): nods nods

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Really it's a social construction of reality....what "slave" means to one might be "sub" to another, or vice-versa

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As long as 1) limits are respected and 2) care is taken , what people wanna call themselves is really their decision

 

[16:21] Lexis Evertied (Lexis Doll): Exactly, but -what- you call each other matters... at least to yourselves

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Because to Hestia's point, here at least, even in an M/s relationship that's healthy, we understand limits are understood and followed, even if 99% of the rest of the decision making is given to the Dom in the power exchange

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): of course Lexis

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very good points!!

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa we come to you please

 

[16:22] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): I have never been in RP for gor, I do not know what it must be like to be a slave without any consent being given, but i have been a slave in D/s Dynamics, in rl and in time i didn't need to have limits, they were of my Master´s knowledge from the beginning and therefore no longer necessary to enter into discussion, i agree with Miss Cyan, TPE is giving total control over to your Master, something that submissives can and should also do to the extent they are comfortable with, the only difference to me in being a slave is the commitment and the level of control established from the growth of the dynamic, summing it up, i do not believe in slavery from the get go, for me that type of dynamic takes time and knowledge of each other. That’s my personal opinion, #

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think that's a very good point Nawa

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): trust builds, the need to "hold back" reduces, and the power exchange increases

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): where that ends is up to each person

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very good points, Nawa thank you!

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): All these comments are really solid!

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): OK Cee...go ahead

 

[16:25] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I am a slave, I have not given consent to be sold or mistreated on any way. I think the strict definition of slave in the dictionary covers RL slaves throughout the world not BDSM slaves who have limits

 

[16:26] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I AM a SLAVE, I have limits, a collar, I select my own clothes (He says I have better taste). We do shop together and he has my trust of 2 years before collar#

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well that's why slavery is illegal worldwide and we go after human trafficker scum with vigor

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): in the BDSM world even a "slave" certainly has rights, all human have rights.  so we respect basic human rights and we want ethical dominants that care for their slave

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Believe me I'd care very well for the slave doing all my housework!  lol

 

[16:29] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  grins and nods

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "excellent floor-mopping slave, have cheesecake!"

 

[16:29] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): yes

 

[16:29] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): and that would be their payoff

 

[16:29] Lexis Evertied (Lexis Doll): Wait, cheescake?....

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  giggles

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee good points, thank you!

 

[16:29] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I might do that, myself!

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Titan we come to you please!

 

[16:30] Titan (Titan Hawksby): Thank you   Did I hear.... Cherry Cheesecake?

 

[16:30] Titan (Titan Hawksby): I thank you all for allowing me to be here with you today..  I don't have much to say..  but offer up this from my side of the dominant and my observance... a couple of quotes...from Herman Hesse

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  looks at Titan....

 

[16:30] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Perks up..."Food?"

 

[16:30] Titan (Titan Hawksby): First....  "It is not our purpose to become each other; it is to recognize each other, to learn to see the other and honor him for what he is."

 

[16:30] Titan (Titan Hawksby): and I change that to "him" or "her"

 

[16:31] Titan (Titan Hawksby): and.. second...  this..  as well. "Some of us think holding on makes us strong; but sometimes it is letting go."

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree with that!

 

[16:31] Titan (Titan Hawksby): and final quote from Thomas Edison...   “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ― Thomas A. Edison

 

[16:32] Jenine Kuu (Illana Kuu):  sniffs looking around... Cheesecake.... with Strawberry's.... mmmmm

 

[16:32] Titan (Titan Hawksby): and with a comment on that..  we fail miserably at times..  but we come up only muddied..    wash off. and stand tall..

 

[16:33] Titan (Titan Hawksby): thank you for allowing me to comment and participate.. I settle back comfortably and a pleasure to meet you all

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thank you Titan!

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I love Hesse's work, good quotes

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cheesecake is good, but lemon cake will turn me into a ...wait I can't let out my secrets....

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): belay that cake

 

[16:34] Jenine Kuu (Illana Kuu):  giggles

 

[16:34] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): chuckles

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): excellent thanks!

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): MansooR we come to you please

 

[16:35] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): so slave/sub is a spectrum........i still dont get what in abolute terms (not the dictionasy meaning) is for a slave.....in other words.. who is a 100% slave?

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Do you mean in the legal way of understanding it?

 

[16:36] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): no.. not legal.. in the 'osicla aspect of bdsm'

 

[16:36] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): social

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well there is no "100% agreed upon definition"

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): one person's slave is another person's sub, and vice-versa

 

[16:37] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): great...:)

 

[16:37] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): nods..just wanted that to be cleared

 

[16:37] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): thanks#

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Now on Gor....well...there it's either/or *grins*

 

[16:38] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): does that mean we don't really have the language we think we have?

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It means we construct terms based on our psychology and social meaning created via discourse

 

[16:38] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): *nods in agreement

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  pulls out the powerpoint and prepares to go on about "communicative action" :P

 

[16:39] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): to me that is part of a negotiation when a power relationship is the goal

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): exactly!

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Dynamics change over time too, as Nawa pointed out

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): What starts as "Dominant/sub" can become "M/s" or vice versa

 

[16:40] Lexis Evertied (Lexis Doll): Its the difference between literal and figurative... someone who says they are '100% slave' is speaking figuratively... because they love the idea of being that..., it's their fantasy. And I'm not going to piss on their chips... to use a vulgar English colloquialism

 

[16:40] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): change?? NO my ducks must be in a row!

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): humans are dynamic creatures

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol lexis

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks MansooR!

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee back to you

 

[16:40] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): Would you like the FetLife definition of slave?

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): sure

 

 

[16:40] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): In BDSM, a slave is usually person who gives up total control to someone who they are in an agreed-upon dynamic and/or relationship with. The term slave is not gender specific. You can use “female slave” or “male slave” to make a distinction between genders.

 

[09:40] Cee (purringfox.mcmillan): In BDSM, a slave is usually person who gives up total control to someone who they are in an agreed-upon dynamic and/or relationship with. The term slave is not gender specific. You can use “female slave” or “male slave” to make a distinction between genders.

 

While all slaves are submissive, the term often implies a deeper level of authority granted to the dominant partner, sometimes called a Master.

 

In these dynamics, the slave may agree to give the Dominant significant influence over aspects of their life, such as behavior, appearance, routines, or other personal choices. But these arrangements are still based on consensual agreements and negotiated boundaries.

 

The term is often used to signal a strong commitment to service and authority within the dynamic, rather than a universally defined set of rules. What “slave” means can vary widely between individuals and relationships.

 

Slave is a self-chosen BDSM identity, not a level that someone "graduates" to by submitting enough. Some people use it to express ownership, devotion, service, or extensive power exchange. Others may practice equally intense submission and strongly prefer never to use the word. #

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's all well said!

 

[16:42] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I love their Kinksionary

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I appreciate the "consensual agreements and negotiated boundaries" part, because even a self-described slave went into the thing consensually and still has human boundaries

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): which is what a trafficked "slave" does NOT have as all their consent and human dignity has been ripped from them....grrrrr

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  won't describe what she would like to see happen to human traffickers.

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Cee!

 

[16:44] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): yvw

 

[16:44] Lexis Evertied (Lexis Doll): bet it's not give 'em cheescake

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne you get the last comment for today

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh yes...with rat poison mixed in!

 

[16:46] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): viewed from outside their power relationship, it is important to remind ourselves that we are outside it and really understand that it is what they chose for themselves. It makes them happier and more appreciative of their power play.

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Right agreed!

 

[16:47] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): it might not be for us, but what makes people happy, as long as the C in SSC and RACK (consent) is followed....it's all good!

 

[16:48] Lexis Evertied (Lexis Doll): ... you put that way better than I did... and no chips were harmed

 

[16:48] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): whew

 

[16:48] Kendra (Kendra Chemistry): C standing for CNC in my case :)

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): indeed!

 

[16:48]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Thank you for attending this discussion.

 

[16:48]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): The tracker is now off and the floor is open to everyone.

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok great discussion everyone!

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): In two weeks our topic will be "Third Party Consent"