"Taking the Step In!" -- March 9, 2025

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 [15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back after nearly a year!  And better than ever...or maybe more bitter!

 [15:41] Seli (Seliara Elton):   laughs softly. "Needs more cream?"

 [15:41] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   whispers, "Its all about the grind."

 [15:41] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident):   chuckles  I've missed those puns

 [15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I am a Cannoli Miss....

 [15:41] Arella Soren (Arella4 Resident): rimshot

 [15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 [15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 [15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 [15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 [15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 [15:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!

 [15:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Our moderator for this session will be Vanessa Cannoli

 [15:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): The discussion will be run in a C - Comment, Q - Question format.

 [15:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Just type a C or a Q in local to be added to the speaker list.

 [15:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): To withdraw your comment type an R

 [15:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): If you'd like to enter your words anonymously, just touch this box.

 [15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so for today's returning topic, we will go over "How did you get into the scene?"

 [15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We all got into the BDSM scene somehow...it could have been and still is only here in SL.

 [15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Or perhaps Y/you were in the scene in First Life, found SL and jumped in here.

 [15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Or perhaps moved from SL to a First Life place.

 [15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All of us got into it, as we're all here, and it's a road that, fraught with some initial fear and worry, is one that we can never get off of once we start.

 [15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And really, do any of us *want* to go back to being vanilla????

 [15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just vanilla?

 [15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   shudders

 [15:46] Seli (Seliara Elton):   giggles softly

 [15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): wb Miss Nadi, Cors

 [15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I'll start with a short tale...some have heard it before so apologies.

 [15:47] Mx. Ŋaɖi Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ Grɛɣmɣst (NadiLee Halcali): thanks

 [15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Prior to the early 2000s I had heard of "BDSM" and knew a bit about it, but I had no interest in it.

 [15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So in I think 2002 I had a student in my Sociology of Deviance class who asked if she could do her observational study of a deviant place at a BDSM club around here -- her roomie was into it so she thought it a good spot to go observe.

 [15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I told her "sure!"

 [15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Then she turned in a paper of what she saw there and I was like "holy f**k...this is amazing!"

 [15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I asked her if she could get her roomie to get an outreach team from the club to come speak to the class.  And they happily obliged

 [15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You can imagine my class' surprise when I told them "two dominatrixes from a BDSM club are coming to speak to the class"...they were expecting two hot 20 year olds in leather ... and two middle aged nurses came in lol

 [15:50] Parser Lane (Parser Lane):   smiles

 [15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But it was a really good talk and they invited us to visit on 'open' nights

 [15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so I went for a visit and got interested and started reading stuff

 [15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That club closed, but I found another one that had open parties and expos regularly

 [15:51] Bill Talon (BilliamTalon Resident): Hi Arella

 [15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So got involved, became a full member in 2014 and have been a pervert ever since

 [15:51] Arella Soren (Arella4 Resident): Nice to see you Bill

 [15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And been in SL BDSM for almost as long as I've been here.

 [15:52] Bill Talon (BilliamTalon Resident): Hello Grace

 [15:52] Grace (GracieMoonheart Resident): Hello Master Bill

 [15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but had it not been for that student in that class...no kismet and maybe Vanni would still be the vanilla bookworm lol

 [15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So that's my story of slow perverted growth

 [15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Welcome Sir Bill.

 [15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Who's next?  *grins*

 [15:52] Bill Talon (BilliamTalon Resident): Hi Vanessa

 
[15:53] Parser Lane (Parser Lane): Thank you for sharing, Vanessa! (bookworm isn't a bad thing either, but.. yeah)

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm still a bookworm, just a perverted one
 
[15:53] Parser Lane (Parser Lane): best of both worlds! :D
 

[15:53] Arella Soren (Arella4 Resident): it's an honor to know you, Professor Vanni

 
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   tips my head to Miss "thank You Miss!  Likewise!"
 
[15:54] Arella Soren (Arella4 Resident): Smiles .. tyvm
 
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   leans back and waits /// ;)
 
[15:54] Seli (Seliara Elton): I'm just picturing the middle aged nurses pulling out the sterile gloves and going "let's begin, shall we?"
 
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL
 
[15:55] Seli (Seliara Elton): C
 
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well it was a verbally sterile discussion mostly Miss....mostly about what makes people in the scene tick, why we like S/M acts etc.
 
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Miss Seli when You are ready please.
 
[15:56] Seli (Seliara Elton):   shrugs. "Just a quick icebreaker. I actually went the other direction: from online to RL. My start was on what I thought was a pretty bog-standard fantasy roleplay sim on a game called Neverwinter Nights 2"
 
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   has played that...

 
[15:57] Seli (Seliara Elton): "This is well over a decade ago when it still had servers up, and a small team had custom built a whole space, with guilds and so on, and it -could- be very vanilla"
 
[15:57] Seli (Seliara Elton): "But I tried to join the mage guild and they rolled me through an "initiation hall" and I went "why....are there stocks here? Is that for punishment?"
 
[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ooooo
 
[15:58] Seli (Seliara Elton): "And the head sorcerer went 'are you ready to find out? I am looking for an assistant.'"
 
[15:59] Seli (Seliara Elton): That was eye-opening! And really reallllllly hot. Stayed there for years before making a jump to exploring a bit in RL, and when it shut down, I made the jump with some friends here to SL which is why my full name is so ye olde Fantasye"
 
[15:59] Seli (Seliara Elton): #
 
[15:59] Seli (Seliara Elton): (I think the # is how I say I'm done, anyway, been a while!)
 
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, Miss!
 
[15:59] Seli (Seliara Elton):   fist pumps "Still got it!"
 
[16:00] Parser Lane (Parser Lane):   applauds the cool story! (do we do that here?)
 
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As long as it wasn't a half-orc Top it sounds cool...can I have the 400 year old high elf Domme, please? ;)
 
[16:00] Seli (Seliara Elton): heee, she was an elf!
 
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): \o/
 
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If y'all remember 'The Sims'....my sister had a mod for it where you could put your Sims on bondage furniture
 
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): she showed me a screenshot of a sim on a St. Andrew's Cross lol
 
[16:01] Seli (Seliara Elton): Sims 4 is kinky as hell if you look in the right places
 
[16:01] Seli (Seliara Elton): Not that I would know such places
 
[16:01] Seli (Seliara Elton): <,<
 
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *cough* 'Certainly not, Miss!'
 
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You for that!  Great story of how one dips their toe in!
 
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone next?
 
[16:02] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): C
 
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Joel when you are ready please!
 
[16:02] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): Short, almost vanilla, story:
 
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wooot!
 
[16:03] Arella Soren (Arella4 Resident): Smiles at Joel-Mine and ruffles his hair
 
[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): C
 
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What is 'contra dancing?'  (I know all the perverse stuff but not that...)
 
[16:04] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): Old American folk dance...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_dance
 
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh!
 
[16:04] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): The Folkdance sim has a couple dances a week, scripted by my friend.
 
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes I have heard of this, I just didn't know what it was called
 
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): how cool!
 
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have friends in First Life who do Clogging
 
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lots of fun
 
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Can we do "Contra Spanking" here maybe...
 
[16:05] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): My profile has more info for anyone interested.
 
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hi Miss Zati, CC!
 
[16:06] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell): Hi Vanni, hi everyone
 
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much, Joel!!
 
[16:06] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): YW!
 
[16:06] Seli (Seliara Elton):   waves a hello
 
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Miss Wynter when You are ready please!
 
[16:06] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): A bit of a story, but three parts coming in :)
 
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): bring it!
 
[16:07] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): My entry into the lifestyle began as part of my exploration towards truly discovering myself. It started with fetishes, and crossdressing being one of the big ones for me. Due to some early childhood trauma.. the idea of being transgender was something I made impermissible to me. So I had to play within my "rules" while having this desire that could no longer be ignored to express my feminine side. Eventually I found the sissy community, as it was the largest expression of forced feminization at the time. The idea of kneeling to a Domme and being 'forced' to be feminine.. seemed amazing and I didn't 'balk' at the idea because of my "rules" around gender presentation.
 
[16:07] Parser Lane (Parser Lane):   looks for dances, discovers "emotionally poly" exists
 
[16:07] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): It's not to say it was without it's misconceptions and imperfect ideas. I came in believing that a submissive was lower than.. in general. While that was sorted in time, the idea that someone would be into that in prim and proper Utah just didn't compute in my mind (...how wrong I was about that.. but we'll get there later.) I remembered that I had SL. So.. I started to research in 2010, and by 2012 I was exploring inside SL. During that time, I went to several munches in SLC. There's even a regular fetish club in downtown (Still open today).. Sometimes you never know until you look.
 
[16:08] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Eventually after a move in RL, I find a Mistress here in SL. She does a full transformation on me.. I am on cloud nine, even with the ham hands and flipper feet. Eventually I figure out who I am. Sometimes, things just shouldn't be shared. Telling her I was transgender broke the dynamic, irreparably and forced me back into the closet for a time. That was just over a year. Eventually, I start going to munches in Las Vegas (where I moved) and got into masochism. I kept up with it till about COVID. And now we've come full circle. I returned to SL in 2023, a new discovery as I come back as a trans woman, and explore the world as a Dominant leaning Switch.#
 
[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   cheers!
 
[16:09] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell): Oh Salt Lake has alway had a huge LGBTQ community
 
[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It does!  Which is interesting considering the culture of Utah
 
[16:09] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): And a significant alt religion segment :)
 
[16:10] Parser Lane (Parser Lane): Wow Miss Wɣŋtɛr, what an adventure!
 
[16:10] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell): It had the best Lesbian bar, Puss In Boots, for a long time but years ago
 
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Fab story, Miss...obviously some lows that You worked through and made You stronger in the end
 
[16:11] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Absolutely :)
 
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent, thank You!
 
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone else feel like sharing Y/your "here's how I got into it" tale?
 
[16:12] Seli (Seliara Elton): Puss in Boots is such a good name
 
[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I told you my naughty journey!  *giggles*
 
[16:13] Seli (Seliara Elton): I remember a gay bar called the Tea Room, which still makes me chuckle
 
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ha!
 
[16:13] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): It's ok, the fetish club in downtown was called Area 51..
 
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A scene with a Gray....and not Christian....
 
[16:13] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): It was fitting hehe
 
[16:13] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Nice Vanni :)
 
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   grins
 
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I dunno though, those grays have some exotic bdsm implements
 
[16:14] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Very heavy into medical play, I hear.
 
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫
 
[16:14] Seli (Seliara Elton): You have how many kinds of probes?!?
 
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lolol
 
[16:16] Seli (Seliara Elton): I keep wondering how many people these days slide into this by finding something like House of Gord on the internet and going "wait what?"
 
[16:16] Seli (Seliara Elton): There's so much more kink available than when it was just dirty magazines you had to buy clandestinely.
 
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "I was looking for squash recipes!  Not to BE squashed!!"
 
[16:17] Parser Lane (Parser Lane): House of Gord is *so* good...
 
[16:17] Seli (Seliara Elton): Right? Googling whether your outdoor paint will not adhere properly if you put it on in the summer and you type "Hot Latex Bondage"
 
[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!
 
[16:17] Parser Lane (Parser Lane): bondage / bonding, it's an easy mistkae!
 
[16:17] Parser Lane (Parser Lane): *mistake, even
 
[16:17] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident):   chuckles
 
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): until one goes to Lowe's in a full body latex outfit thinking "This is where I can get a new color, right?"
 
[16:18] Parser Lane (Parser Lane): hehe :)
 
[16:19] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell): Oh hardware stores, reminds me of great lines from the movie Jenifer's Body
 
[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   grins
 
[16:19] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): There was also many resources just hiding... IRC chats.. Usenet boards.. most of it hidden away to those not in the know.. the 90's version of the dark web when folks didn't quite grasp the internet.
 
[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh yes
 
[16:19] Seli (Seliara Elton): OMG, IRC chats!
 
[16:20] Seli (Seliara Elton): Firing up Telnet to get kinky
 
[16:20] Seli (Seliara Elton):   giggles
 
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   trolled #submission then back in the day..that was all my real exposure to anything kinky, but then I thought it more ... a subject of study than anything I'd want to do
 
[16:20] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Which is funny.. because we've basically come full circle with Discord.. Every "server" it's own IRC server with channels.
 
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes!
 
[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and Reddit is basically a nicer form of Usenet
 
[16:21] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Yup!
 
[16:21] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): r/BDSM? Far easier to find than alt.sex.BDSM
 
[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol right?
 
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   looks at the cup "So last call...does anyone else wish to share a tale of their entry to our little happy world of naughtyness?"
 
[16:24] Seli (Seliara Elton): My working theory is that this discussion is how the rest of you are getting started.
 
[16:24] Seli (Seliara Elton):   giggles
 
[16:24] Arella Soren (Arella4 Resident): Chuckling
 
[16:25] Seli (Seliara Elton): "This beautiful lady kneeling beside a huge coffee cup started talking and I got intrigued...."
 
[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   blushes a bit
 
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Chats like this do help people start to sort out some feelings and desires, Miss.
 
[16:26] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Sharing of one's self in a public forum.. still one of many's greatest fears. And the mind loves to play on our in securities.
 
[16:26] Seli (Seliara Elton): I'm being semi-serious, honestly.
 
[16:26] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): But sometimes, listening can be very good too, as to what Vanni just said.
 
[16:26] Seli (Seliara Elton): That's why I love these Klatches and I'm glad to be back
 
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   smiles
 
[16:26] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident):   looks around,  hoping for more stories
 
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well blame...or thank...Kely...*giggles*...she asked me a few times if I was ready to get them going again..
 
[16:27] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell): The stories are fun and interesting but mine is kind of boring
 
[16:27] Seli (Seliara Elton): Ohh tell it anyway!
 
[16:27] Grace (GracieMoonheart Resident): mine is too CC
 
[16:27] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I um.. might have floated the idea to Seph too.. when we were getting Johan sorted for his set on the opposite weeks :)
 
[16:27] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): More boring than mine?
 
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I don't beleive anyone's lifestories to be boring
 
[16:27] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell):   winks in recognition to Grace
 
[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   beams at Miss Wynter ♥
 
[16:28] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell): OH my life story is definetly not boring over all
 
[16:28] Zati Kodaly (ZoltanKodaly Resident): CC is not boring, I assue you
 
[16:29] Mx. Ŋaɖi Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ Grɛɣmɣst (NadiLee Halcali): c
 
[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Miss Nadi, please!
 
[16:29] Mx. Ŋaɖi Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ Grɛɣmɣst (NadiLee Halcali): I thought it was about forced sex in SL then I met Miss Wynter and my eyes were opened very painfully in a very wonderful way
 
[16:29] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   smirks.
 
[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I came here for religious services and then came the forced sex....it was a rather...liberal...congregation...
 
[16:30] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   laughs.
 
[16:30] Zati Kodaly (ZoltanKodaly Resident): it's Sunday
 
[16:30] Mx. Ŋaɖi Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ Grɛɣmɣst (NadiLee Halcali): thats how i started too
 
[16:31] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): LIterally...
 
[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   giggles
 
[16:31] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell): I had a therapist give me books on BDSM
 
[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Interesting CC!
 
[16:31] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): My therapist was encouraging, but he didn't give me any books!  ;-(
 
[16:32] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell): books by Janet Hardy and Dossy Easton
 
[16:32] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *now that his hour is up he grins*   Well, we were trying to get Vanni in here even before that Wynter ;)
 
[16:32] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Oh I know.
 
[16:32] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): And thank you for the wonderful Display Johan!
 
[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   blushes more
 
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You Sir!
 
[16:33] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Seph/Chew and I were hoping she'd return back in September when I first approached them about "Easy Like Sun Morning" sets
 
[16:33] Moxie (AOXOMOXOA Ansar): novels by Jacqueline Carey     Kushiel's stories
 
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Looooove Kushiel!
 
[16:33] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell (Consuela Caldwell): Me too, read 3 in the series
 
[16:33] Moxie (AOXOMOXOA Ansar): me too, Vanni
 
[16:33] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I was about to sarcastically say that Vanni knows /nothing/ about Jacqueline Carey.
 
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh...I was helping to run a sim based on it but...ran into disagreements with the co-owners, to put it very nicely
 
[16:34] Emma (Theo Jiadom): Kushiel and Naamah both are great series. And now there is a new from Cassiels side of the story right?
 
[16:34] Moxie (AOXOMOXOA Ansar): also Tijuana Bibles  buwahaha   High class reading those
 
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): One book, yes, "Cassiel's Servant"
 
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The story of how Jocelin got involved with Phedre from his perspective
 
[16:35] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I liked the first two books, not enough smut for me personally, but as a story I enjoyed them and suggested them to my RL wife who enjoys Romantasy
 
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The BDSM is part of the story but not central, true, Sir.
 
[16:36] Seli (Seliara Elton):   gasps "Oh I love that word! Never heard of Romantasy, but that rules!"
 
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She is a great world-builder though!
 
[16:37] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): SHe is 100% Vanni, once I finish my Adept program I'm going to finish the rest of her series :)  unfortunately my local library only had the first two (or fortunately as those were the two I needed for my syllabus)
 
[16:37] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident):   nods emphatically to Vanni
 
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm sorry
 
[16:37] Arella Soren (Arella4 Resident): Smiles at fond memories of that syllabus
 
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): someone sent an anonymous "I can share"
 
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have no idea who that was but please feel free to share!
 
[16:38] Bill Talon (BilliamTalon Resident): I think it was me Vanessa
 
[16:39] Bill Talon (BilliamTalon Resident): My first RL experience happened in the mid 90s when I was stationed in the San Francisco area. I young female sailor I worked with asked me to dirve her to The Trocadero Club one night for an event called Bondage a go-go. It was a fetish club that met there every Wednesday night. She would go play and I would sit and watch. I tried to participate one time but not much happened. A gorgeous Domme pulled me in and gae me a few lashes with a cat o nine tales and then I went back to my table, I continued taking the young lady for a long time until I moved back to Florida. #
 
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please, Sir!
 
[16:39] Bill Talon (BilliamTalon Resident): Not much but it was a pleasure to watch
 
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wooot!
 
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Bondage-a-Go-Go..sounds familiar!
 
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hi Kahlan, Sydney!
 
[16:40] Bill Talon (BilliamTalon Resident): Yes, I related the event at a Dom meeting here several years ag o and that's how the Xaara event came about
 
[16:40] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I always want to say "Go GO Bondage FLogger! " when I hear Bondage A Go-Go
 
[16:40] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): hey hi!
 
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Awesome!
 
[16:41] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): waves hello to E/everyone
 
[16:41] Grace (GracieMoonheart Resident): really cute outfit Sydney
 
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You Sir!
 
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok last call!
 
[16:41] Arella Soren (Arella4 Resident): Hello Kahlan and Sydney
 
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone want to get a tale in before we call it?
 
[16:41] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *smiles to Grace and mouths a thank you*
 
[16:42] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident):   smiles at Kahlan and Sydney
 
[16:42] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): good morning Mistress Arella
 
[16:42] Moxie (AOXOMOXOA Ansar):   recognises Sydney's Silvery Boho outfit.  yes, that's cute
 
[16:43] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Hello Kahlan and Sydney :)
 
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): No worries if Y/you didn't share, we just got back and not everyone is into spinning a tale, so we will call it here.  Thank Y/you all for coming back....we'll be back in two weeks...Sir Johan has His "Easy Like Sunday Morning" event every other week at 8...we are opposite here.
 
[16:43] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): Better late than never, fabulous to see everyone
 
[16:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Thank you for attending this discussion.
 
[16:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): The tracker is now off and the floor is open to everyone.
 
[16:43] Seli (Seliara Elton): Thanks for hosting, Vanni. Wonderful as always
 
[16:43] Mx. Ŋaɖi Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ Grɛɣmɣst (NadiLee Halcali): thank you Vanni
 
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We'll have another kinky talk in two weeks!s!

"S is for Sadism" -- March 5, 2023

 [16:09] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[16:09] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Before I open the discussion, let me post the usual header:  Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[16:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.

 

[16:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[16:10] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): While we are a chatty group, lots of extra chat makes it "noisy," so if we can please keep that to a minimum, it would be very appreciated, thank Y/you!

 

[16:11] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The blog for this munch is:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/   It holds the archive for our munches here starting Jan 3, 2021.

 

[16:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So last week we finished up the first two letters of the BDSM paradigm, "B" for Bondage and "D" for Discipline

 

[16:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we move into the next two, the ones at the end "S" for Sadism and "M" for Masochism

 

[16:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As usual, I have a bit of exposition before I throw it open to the floor

 

[16:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sadism is rather hard to understand for people IN our community, never mind vanilla folks OUT of our community

 

[16:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): People think Sadism is some of mad use of fists and pipes and what not to beat a subject into jelly or something

 

[16:14] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In reality, Sadism in the BDSM understanding of it is far from such cruel behavior.

 

[16:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sadism is obviously as a word derived from the Marquis de Sade, who was imprisoned for lewd behaviors

 

[16:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He was a self-described "libertine" who believed that social rules were nonsense and that one's desire for pleasure always trumps what society thinks you should do

 

[16:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone that has read the published work "101 Nights of Sodomy" know what I'm talking about.

 

[16:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And in that book he hadn't really gotten to the nasty stuff he had planned (it was published with the book as an outline only)

 

[16:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So while these acts bear his name, we are FAR from his ideas in form

 

[16:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Merriam-Webster gives a general definition of Sadism as "the derivation of sexual gratification from the infliction of physical pain or humiliation on another person."

 

[16:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's fine as a general understanding of the word, but rather limited

 

[16:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The online Dominant Guide gives a much better definition:  "Within the BDSM community, the Dominant is most often the sadist, and the  submissive is generally the masochist (who derives pleasure from receiving pain). Also in the BDSM community, unlike most societal descriptions in the medical and psychological community, sadism is widely accepted as a healthy expression of inflicting pain in a safe, sane, and consensual manner to a masochist who seeks such activities as a form of emotional release or sexual pleasure."

 

[16:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let me be clear about something that will color this part of our discussion of BDSM

 

[16:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A Dominant does NOT have to be a Sadist to be a good Dominant, nor does a submissive have to be a Masochist to be a good sub/slave

 

[16:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): D/s and S/M are related to a degree, but a relationship can be totally based on Dominance and submission and not get into S/M of any type

 

[16:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Acts of Sadism seem to puzzle a lot of vanilla people in First Life -- "why do you get off hitting people?"

 

[16:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The answer to this varies from person to person, but in general, the feeling of power, of letting that desire to cause hurt to a person channeled onto a person that is willingly allowing it (nay, deeply desiring it!), and the lovely marks that are left on the willing Bottom with the hands, the paddle, the whip, etc, are the charges that drive the Sadist.

 

[16:22] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sadism is not purely physical either.  Different things turn on different Bottoms, so one Bottom might like being hit with a paddle until his or her ass and thighs are black and blue, while another may not want any physical pain at all, but really gets off on being totally objectified and humiliated in front of people.

 

[16:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): After we talk about Sadism and Masochism in general, we will spend a couple weeks talking about a few types of this that are not physical

 

[16:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): However, today we will stick to Sadism as a physical act, as other forms require a bit more elaboration

 

[16:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Last thing and HIGHLY important

 

[16:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We are NOT discussing a psychological condition here where a person just acts sadistically toward people minus consent.

 

[16:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That is Sadistic Personality Disorder, and its closely related cousin, Antisocial Personality Disorder (although they are different in how they operate)

 

[16:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): : So if Y/you see some person going about saying they're a "sadist" who acts like a total a-hole to people around them, they're not a BDSM sadist, they are a person with some personality disorder that makes them into a thug.

 

[16:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok with all this said...are You a Sadist?  Do you like doing horrific, nasty stuff to S-Types that we...er....THEY like so much?

 

[16:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sir Lngo, please go ahead when You are ready!

 

[16:26] Jade Atheria (Jade Atheria): c

 

[16:26] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): This is a deep topic and it has taken me years to come to my understanding.  

I am a sadist.  Many would be suprised to hear me say that.  And I do meet the devinition of one who enjoys inflicting pain.  

 

However, for me, it must be part of a feedback loop, within a deep trusted relationship, where the emotional and psychological benefits are understood and being enjoyed by all involved. 

 

For me the S/m take the D/s to all new and deeper levels.  And forges a very deep and emotional, Psychological and loving connection ... not possible in any other way.

 

It is transformational - like the process of forging steel.  It takes the living organic - to something deep and spiritual.   

 

[16:27] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I 100% agree Sir that there needs to be a mutual give and take, so to speak

 

[16:27] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): It is really hard to explain

 

[16:28] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): absolute trust too :)

 

[16:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a regular play partner in First Life I like smacking around at the club.  But I know she LIKES it...the last time we went there together she ran to get a room as she couldn't wait to get beat on lol

 

[16:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I couldn't do any of that minus knowing she likes it

 

[16:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): let's move on to Jade please!

 

[16:30] Jade Atheria (Jade Atheria): Just a short comment.....Tickling. It likely fails in comparison to some Sadists acts but it's certainly my torture. After so much laughter my everything hurts in such a lovely way.

 

[16:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): OMG I HATE tickling!

 

[16:30] Humormii (Humormii Resident): OMG I love inflicting it! XD

 

[16:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I am so ticklish, going to the doctor is an act of Masochism for me

 

[16:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As said earlier, Sadism does not have to involve any physical whacks or anything...it can be tickling, objectification, humiliation or any combo of anything

 

[16:33] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The real issue of Sadism is a way to "hurt" a person in a consensual way that gets them into a happy state

 

[16:33] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Whereas Sadistic Personality Disorder is hurting people *minus consent* and getting off on doing that

 

[16:33] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): A sadist can also enter a happy state :)

 

[16:33] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed Sir!

 

[16:34] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Topspace is quite often a result of having that power and wielding it

 

[16:34] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): PT is by Sadistic with my knee LOL when they are working on me. LOL

 

[16:34] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh

 

[16:35] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Even foodplay can be sadistic!

 

[16:35] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'll leave that to Y/your imaginations! *grins*

 

[16:35] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Jade!

 

[16:35] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Sir Abraham please

 

[16:35] Abraham  عبر Jacobson  (abrahamjacobs2 Resident): There is a Sin T app for just that kine of play. That is why i also servey my girls, to see if any are masochist I have play items for that if i find the right girl and enjoy the power play that comes from it.

 

[16:36] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): /me nods

 

[16:36] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Making sure that a person is a good fit for each other is very essential I agree Sir.

 

[16:37] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This is why negotiation for a scene never mind a D/s kind of connection is vital

 

[16:38] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent, thank You Sir

 

[16:38] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please go ahead Hu when ready

 

[16:39] Humormii (Humormii Resident): I am primarily subby but I definitely am a switch. Ask Rachel. :P I have an intense need to do whatever it is my partner needs to get off. Be it pulling hair at the right moment, slaps, pinching. I am rather green as a Domme so I haven't ventured too far down the rabbit hole wanting to keep things safe and consentual and wanting to learn more before I make costly mistakes. But it's definitely there. #

 

[16:39] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yay!  \o/

 

[16:40] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's never "wrong" unless it's non-consensual.  So where you are going with willing subjects is a fab thing in my book, Hu.

 

[16:40] Rachel Scarlett (ReddyPlayerOne Resident): /me Nuzzles and cuddles on my Hu sis and purrs^^

 

[16:41] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let me ask the group a question on this, Y/you can just answer it, please don't put in a "C":  Can a person who identifies as submissive have also strong sadistic tendencies at least at times?  Or are sub and sadist two self-contradictory ideas?

 

[16:42] Arella McGregor (Arella4 Resident): Depends on the reason behind it.  Some "sadistic tendencies" are merely ventings and reactions

 

[16:43] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's a valid point Mistress Arella!

 

[16:43] Sky (808080Sky Resident): I'd say some subs are very good at inflicting on themselves the masochistic fantasies they need - whether that requires a sadistic mindset... I suppose it actually does.

 

[16:43] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): For me it is never venting

 

[16:44] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also, some might see the "Brat" as a sort of sadist.  But they aren't.  They're trying to set something up

 

[16:45] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): I would be very surprised to find a submissive, on the scale of my Jade, say, with any sadistic tendencies.

 

[16:45] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I ask because in SL I've been told that a "real" sub can't be anything but passive and probably a masochist

 

[16:45] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): Well, THAT is pure poppycock!

 

[16:46] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): oh not always Vanni, i enjoy being sassy to get more erm funishments

 

[16:46] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I serve Master Laz here as his Kinky Secretary and I get off on being told what to do, doing it and hearing "Thanks sweetie" from Him.

 

[16:46] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I also go to the club in RL and look for willing subjets for sadistic experimenation lol

[16:47] RB Quinn (RBQuinn Resident): Vanni, doesn't that make you a switch?

 

[16:47] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): OMG Vanni!!!! I love hearing Master Laz  when he does that. He knows I also get off when he orders me around.

 

[16:47] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That would depend how one defines "switch" Master RB

 

[16:48] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): in an S/M way, yes

 

[16:48] Humormii (Humormii Resident): My dominant side developed out of half necessity and half desire because I was surrounded by sisters who were absent a dominant.

 

[16:48] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I can go either way, either Top or Bottom

 

[16:48] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but I'm not a Dominant person

 

[16:48] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have no desire to control anyone...well except my students, but that's not BDSM :P

 

[16:48] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): That's what all teachers say ... ^^

 

[16:49] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well THEY will say I'm a horrible sadist I'm sure lol

 

[16:50] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok thanks Hu!

 

[16:50] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Mistress Arella, You are up please!

 

[16:50] Arella McGregor (Arella4 Resident): Thank you, Vanni.  I am an Ethical Sadist.  For Myself it isn't about torture or pain, but about impacting the submissive in a way that they desire.  The impact may be physical, mental or emotional.  (My jam is more mental - imagine spiders crawling ...)  Going a step further, it is the way that the impact is interpreted that brings value to the situation.  The sub interprets the particular impact as either pain, endorphin pleasure, a closeness with the D, or any combination of things.  When that connection happens, it is a beautiful celebration and not a freakish form of abuse.  #

 

[16:51] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 1000% agreed Mistress!

 

[16:53] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The key is what You said, Mistress, it's what the people involved value and want.

 

[16:53] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And why we can't pass judgement on anything that is not abuse.  We can always judge abuse...but...what LOOKS abusive often well is not

 

[16:54] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent, thank You Mistress!

 

[16:54] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back to Sir Lngo please

 

[16:54] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Some musings.....

Due to my strange intemate nature on this topic - for me I have learned I cannot be in an S/m connection unless the D/s has already been established.  

 

I too develop a deep emotional connection.  So casual play is really not possible for me.  It has also taken me years to understand this .... at least for me.

 

Engaging in this level of play requires lasting commitment on my part - and my assessment that my partner also meets my level of commitment.

 

Once I experienced very bad DOM drop (sub left me) and it really took me years to overcome. I never want to do that again :) 

 

What can I say .... I know I am different .... I know I have my own way.... but I just have learned who I am.. and what I uniquely need.  And I realiize that many others are very different.  All appproaches are valid - it really become about compatibility.  I have great respect for you all :)  #

 

[16:56] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): We are all unique beings Lngo, you are not soo different. I fully agree with your statement

 

[16:57] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Very well said, thank You Sir!

 

[16:57] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Aspen, you are up please

 

[16:58] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Thank you Vanni

There are times where I think I am a wanting that pain. I am a sub/slave when it come to pain. There are some 

humiliation and cam play a part with me. I love to also play in public but it depends where. But when it comes to the pain, I want the pain that I can change it to pleasure. I don't really like seeing the marks and in my profile I express that they can only stay on my body for two days. 

I enjoy all of the pain or the high it gives you and release all of the stress build up. Then it flips me into subspace. I am done with all that has been done to me. Like being flogged, spanked by hand or by paddle or ect. then the eating me out, playing with my pussy, forcing his cock in my pussy then have me suck him clean then to do anal. I love it when it is happening. The I am so wipe out. and then it is ready to do it all over again with in an hour. LOL

 

[16:59] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said Aspen!

 

[17:00] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I will say this...at the club I will do pickup play, which can be described as "casual"...but whether I am Top or Bottom, if I don't know the person and have never played with them, that first scene is always pretty light

 

[17:02] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): But you have to watch out of Top/sub Drop.

 

[17:02] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes you do

 

[17:03] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): which is why I always try to get in touch with the other the next day and usually one more to be sure they're ok

 

[17:03] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Due diligence we call it ;)

 

[17:04] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Aspen!

 

[17:04] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Miss Cherry has a question.  Please go ahead Miss!

 

[17:04] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): Thank you Vanni

 

[17:04] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): I have a question for the group. In am probably throwing the stick in the henhouse so to speak (and awakening the rooster lol), but i wonder if sadism is more seen with male dominants than with female ones. I have no RL experience whatsoever, and i can only rely on what i have seen in my 15 years in SL. I have no idea about statistics or scientific research about the topic. I am sure Vanni in her professional modus has more specific data about this. But i just wonder if there are sexe – related differences in fantasies, sources of arousal and practice in the BDSM community. I myself am more of a Control Junkie, but that is another topic hehe.

 

[17:05] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone can answer Miss Cherry's question, please do not "C"

 

[17:07] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): in my humble opinion society as a whole views sadists as female Doms too

 

[17:08] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I will say something but I want to let everyone that wishes to have a chance to go first

 

[17:08] Arella McGregor (Arella4 Resident): Historically, society has envisioned the males as the dominant or giver of pain/pleasure, with the females as subservient receivers.  IMHO that has changed greatly.  What happens behind closed doors may never be completely accurately "surveyed" for many reasons.

 

[17:09] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): Miss Cherry, I have a recommendation for you, if you haven't read it:  The Erotic Mind: Unlocking the Inner Sources of Passion and Fulfillment

 

[17:09] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed Mistress!

 

[17:09] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): C

 

[17:09] Sky (808080Sky Resident): I suspect this might be one of those traits where the male expression is different from the traditional female expression. Say violence at home typically is verbal abuse from the part of a woman, where a male may be more physical. I suspect there are plenty of female dominants that are sadist. The form just may be different for social acceptability reasons.

 

[17:10] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): I'd also agree the stereotype of the femdom is a hard-backed controlling sadist.

 

[17:11] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I will say based on my long time in both SL and RL BDSM circles that women can be some really hard ass Sadistic Tops and Dom/mes

 

[17:11] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And some male Doms have that nurturing touch

 

[17:12] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): I have flogged a dominant in Real World.

 

[17:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That said, I think also male and female subs are different in many cases.

 

[17:12] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): I got off on it.

 

[17:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): if you go to a Femdom community here, you will find the boy subs are often really happy when they can be totally debased in front of a Domme

 

[17:12] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (again, I'm generalizing)

 

[17:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think it has something to do with gender roles

 

[17:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it's a giving up of the expected role of "confident and active, powerful"

 

[17:13] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So the way men and women approach this will temper how male and female Dominants will act and react to their bottoms or subs

 

[17:14] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The answer itself would take a lot of thought and probably a blog or two lol

 

[17:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Great question, thank You Miss Cherry!

 

[17:15] Arella McGregor (Arella4 Resident): Chuckling at the memory of some playtime, then off to the grocery store in thigh high boots and corset.  Lots of stares happened.  The cashier said, "Folks either want to please you or be you."  lol #

 

[17:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): /me grins

 

[17:15] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): LOL Miss Arella!

 

[17:16] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): hehe, I like that cashier

 

[17:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A Dom in my RL community has a girl, and when go shopping he says "Get that oatmeal, get that head of lettuce..."  Just that gets people going lol

 

[17:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Miss Cherry!

 

[17:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lysana you're up please!

 

[17:17] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): Depending on how he said it, I'd stop to fan myself,too.

 

[17:17] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): Thanks, Vanni

 

[17:17] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): First, I love playing with sadists who fit with my masochism. Sensation play, edge play, the sting that spreads and changes... *coughs* Um, where was I? Oh, yeah. I like having some kind of friendship with a dominant regardless of our intended play modes and definitely don't want to go from zero to razor blades on the first date. *grins*

Second, my sadistic side is expressed in service topping. But not often so far. If I were to give a rough label for my approach, it'd be caring, creative, and squeamish. that last may be a newness problem. The one time I provided a dom I was scening with an outlet for his masochism, I knew he'd RPed almost everything twice. So my deep need to not shed any real blood or whatever mixed with knowing this and gave him an experience he'd never had by sheer luck. It doesn't always have to be pain, though. A sub someone left out to be played with was there for edging and teasing. So he got that. His Mistress wanted it. We both had fun. #

 

[17:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes!

 

[17:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I pointed out a bit earlier that Sadism doesn't always imply hitting people

 

[17:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All manner of acts can fall under Sadism

 

[17:19] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): Some people, I recall, adore the mindfuck.

 

[17:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A good mindfuck is a lot of fun

 

[17:20] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): /me remembers one night at a RL Femdom party where three of us were sitting on a couch with a boy kneeling in front of us....and he was in tears and we never laid a finger on him lolol

 

[17:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent Lysana, I'm glad to hear you're expanding in your lifestyle!

 

[17:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sir Lngo again please

 

[17:21] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): Back to Cherry's question...

You may know or not know that my journey led me down the path of submissive for several years.  And I was told - and did learn - that I was really not a submissive :)  (Really I tried)   I found much diversity in female Dommes, some were Sadists and others were not.  But all were about control.  I think there is just a lot of diversity and just like you cannot stereotype Male DOMs you can not do that for Female Dommes.  Really just gets back to compatability.  And not sure it's specifially gender related - or sexual orientation related.  #

 

[17:22] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): very true Master Lngo

 

[17:22] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said Sir!

 

[17:22] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): Thank you for this very enlightening comment Lngo,

 

[17:23] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): To me control is the key , yes

 

[17:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I always point out to my Intro to Soc and Crim classes that we are talking about *generalizations*, but one can't ever infer that any specific person is going to be acting like X based on such generalizations

 

[17:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So as Lysana also pointed out, it's not wise to just infer any Dom/me will act like X type sadist

 

[17:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said, thank You Sir!

 

[17:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Christina, you have the final word for today!

 

[17:25] Christina (Christina Halpin): In my very limited experience, I once had a sub who wanted pain. I asked a bit, and found out the world was beating him up, and I decided to do something else besides inflict pain. Is that reasonable? Or was I just forcing him to go elsewhere?

 

[17:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Did the sub enjoy it?

 

[17:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Did you enjoy it?

 

[17:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Because that's the only critical question

 

[17:26] Christina (Christina Halpin): disagree

 

[17:26] Christina (Christina Halpin): #

 

[17:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's fine, how so though?

 

[17:27] Christina (Christina Halpin): me? I agree, that a dominant could give pain simply because the dominant wanted to and the sub agreed.

 

[17:27] Christina (Christina Halpin): I don't think that way.

 

[17:27] Christina (Christina Halpin): I had reasons every time I gave pain.

 

[17:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If the sub agrees but isn't enjoying it, or wouldn't enjoy X, it's their duty to say "this isn't working out."

 

[17:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Because if they don't it's abuse but the Dom/me doesn't even know it

 

[17:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In this lifestyle, saying "I like X" just to make someone happy is downright dangerous to the self.

 

[17:29] Christina (Christina Halpin): so the dominant tries to find out why the sub wants pain. That's great, like I said my experience is lilmited

 

[17:29] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): /me nods firmly and rapidly toward Vanni

 

[17:29] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): Communication is of the very essenceµ

 

[17:29] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): agrees

 

[17:29] Christina (Christina Halpin): and self-awareness?

 

[17:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right, Christina!  If someone came to me and said "I want you to beat me silly" and can't express what they want, and even more importantly to me, WHY they want it, I'd tell them to think about what they're asking and why

 

[17:30] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): I  know at one time I was cage by one of our Dom's in Xaara at the time and I did say the same thing. He did not let me go because the cage had a timed lock on it. Is that abuse?

 

[17:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If you said "I don't like this, please end it" and the Dominant didn't, yes, that's' abuse

 

[17:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): period.  full stop.

 

[17:30] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): nods

 

[17:31] Lngo Delvalle (Lngo Delvalle): use your safeword to be clear

 

[17:31] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (as opposed to "Oh I hate this, let me out *wink wink, nudge nudge*"

 

[17:31] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): absolutely

 

[17:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Christina, never feel like any question you have, or anything you might disagree with, would ever have anyone throw shade at you here.

 

[17:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We are all learning together.

 

[17:32] Christina (Christina Halpin): I like that. Yes.

 

[17:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I appreciate your candor and desire to talk and learn with us! :)

 

[17:33] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We're a good bunch I think lol

 

[17:33] Lysana Blackwing (Lysana McMillan): mhm... the thing we like to avoid is shaming people for their preferences ㋡

 

[17:33] Christina (Christina Halpin): yes

 

[17:33] Candice Svenska (CandiceElla Resident): sharing is caring :)

 

[17:33] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you A/all for the fabulous comments and questions