"S is for Submission!" -- June 29, 2025

 [15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So let's start up

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received; however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

[15:41]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!

[15:41]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Our moderator for this session will be Vanessa Cannoli

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we continue our walk through the BDSM acronym by focusing on the "s" in D/s

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): After today we have a few more topics to go through: subs vs slaves, the DaddyDom/babygirl dynamic and finally....The Brat!

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And not the kind with saurkraut and mustard!

[15:43] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): brats are a myth

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And of course if there is a topic you feel we could still squeeze out of this, please do let me know!

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol Becky!

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So some exposition on Submission and then we'll go to comments...as thoughts arise, just drop a 'c'  or a 'q' in chat.

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): First, I'd like to point out that there is both overlap and differentiation between Tops/Bottoms and Dominants/subs or slaves.

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): At my First Life club, I'd say 75-80% of the people are Tops and Bottoms. We get together, do perverse, kinky things, and then go home. The Power Exchange is for the hour or so that's given over to that interaction.

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Although I was just there last night, and there a really lovely subby girl there with her Miss on speaking restriction...she could only speak to her Miss.  It was cute and smexy to watch!

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also, the exchange in a one-off scene is very specific -- we will do this and that but not THAT.

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So Top/Bottom is based on scene activity, which we of course do here in SL and Xaara.  D/s, on the other hand, is based on some aspect of a growing relationship.

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The power exchange is stronger but also less directly formalized as the connection grows.  The formality melts into a relationship of shared kinks, desires and growth into each other.

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As we discussed the Dominant over the past couple Klatches, today we come to the submissive, the person who wants to give themselves over to the direction of the Dominant, serve their needs and be whatever it is the Dom/me wants and they come up with together.

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just as Domination is something more than "topping," then Submission is something more than "bottoming." The question is, what is it?

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Why do submissives get such a thrill from being truly submissive to a Dominant person?

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And, what is that gets the Dom/me drawn to the sub type? What do they see, what's the click there?

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Remember, vanillas don't get what we do, they think "Dominants are monsters and subs are doormat types and it's all abuse" (well, some vanillas, to be fair)

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But we know better, so what's the "zing" of submission? Why do we do it, subs, and why do our Dominants like it so much and get their kicks watching us squirm? (No, please don't. do that. No, really. Stop.) </Willy Wonka Voice>

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So with that, my exposition is done....what do you all think?  *sips coffee and looks at the cup for Cs and Qs*

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Rache,l when you are ready, please.

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): wonders if Imy is either sleepy or writing a novella of material.... :P

[15:59] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): I don't know why I am what I am...I think sometimes it's the way I was raised...then I think that maybe it's more hereditary.  I just know it's what I am. #

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hereditary is an interesting term here...do you believe that being submissive is something in your family?

[15:59] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): I do Miss Vanni

[16:00] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): mostly maternal line

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As a sociologist, I accept that both nature and nurture are what drive our personalities and they are deeply intertwined

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so if there are genes that are more prone to 'passiveness' and being led in a person, those will also be reinforced by learned behaviors...they create a sort of feedback loop

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I think the same can be said for Dominance

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So that's a good insight Rachel, thanks for that!

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Madame Koolhoven, s'il vous plait..

[16:04] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): thank you chérie

[16:04] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): Its seeing them squirm that I enjoy. Knowing they, at least, enjoy the challenge I am issuing. I adore impact and shibari, but its not all we do, I am also strong on pony and protocol, which keeps her in line, and makes my domination of her the more enjoyable. She knows how to walk, and where to stand depending on the situation. One example, I was at a tea and tarts event, where we were invited to bring our own cup. I brought a high opaque cup and gave her the order to never let my cup be empty. You can imagine how much I played on that, knowing she couldn't see the bottom of my cup from where she was. I couldn't see her, but I felt her trying to go even higher on her 3 inches heels to see in my cup. A friend later told me how much work she put in it, as he was on the other end of the room, he was able to see all she did. All of this requires active dominance, which I adore. This moment was highly pleasurable, and for me, something I very much look for, playfulness, willingness to go to the end of her task,

[16:04] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven):  and to bring us a good laugh afterwards. That connection that makes us feel like we are dancing together.  (and yes, I did call my girl a tart all along) ♥

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ooo strawberry tart hopefully!!

[16:05] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): we had lemon, choco and berries

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): mmmm

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and yes it's the interplay

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The push this or that way...the reaction...the service rendered and the big smile when the sub hears "good boy/girl/person!"

[16:06] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): praise kink, yus

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I also like how you said that 'active dominance' is required for this

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Being a switch, I know...being a Dominant is hard work!

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just as being submissive is.

[16:07] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): its why we need to switch at times

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right...different but complementary energies

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): doing a lovely dance together

[16:08] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): making sure the wheel of energy keeps on turning

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed!

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Get beat on my caboose to make the paddle in my hand work efficiently! :P

[16:09] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): lol very well said

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):  grins

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Merci beaucoup, ma belle amie!

[16:10] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): ♥ souffle un doux baiser

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): :)

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Autumn, we come to you, please!

[16:10]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I am new to actually being a submissive to a Dominant, but it's something I've wanted for a long time.  What I craved the most was being known.  I don't know how much of it has to do with being autistic and always feeling misunderstood, but to have someone want to know me fully, understand me so they can help me grow and be the best I can be.  There is also the part of being taken care of, as someone with a traumatic past who never had anyone she could rely on, that makes me feel special as well. Along with not HAVING to be in control.  I also LOVE making someone else feel special, so being able to focus on my Master, learn him and know him as well as he knows me, so I can do anything I can for him to help make his life more easy and enjoyable, that makes me happy as well.  For me it's so much more than just the sexual parts, it's the deep emotions that go into it.  #

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All very well said!

[16:11]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): smiles

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): D/s should always be about building up each other, never tearing down in any mean way.  That's abuse.

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now sometimes the Dominant will "break" metaphorically some aspects of the sub's life or personality that are unhealthy.  Johan, I believe you have spoken to this.

[16:13] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Briefly :)

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But this "breaking" is not destructive but constructive.

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sometimes a foundation has to be repoured before the house can be built.

[16:13]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes

[16:14] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): And sometimes you have to tear down the old badly constructed house BEFORE you can fix the foundation to build anew :)

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100%!!

[16:14] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): ♥

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's what I hear you saying, Autumn, that the complimentary aspects of your Master's and your lives connect with each other.

[16:15]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes, he is helping me build better habits, and break bad ones, so I can grow and be the best I can be

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Outstanding!  See, just as Johan said!

[16:15]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Nods

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And your willing submission feeds the aspects he needs to lead, care and nurture your growth...and occasionally do "horrid" stuff to you that none of us would ever do ....*coughs and puts my flogger away ceremoniously*

[16:17]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Laughs "Exactly!"

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):  giggles

[16:17] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): I'd like to add that this can also work the other way around, our subs get to know us so well that they can help us rebuild parts of ourselves

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100% as well!

[16:17]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): That is something I hope to be able to do as well

[16:18] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): ♥

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's always a feedback loop....just as in a vanilla relationship the partners build each other and care for each other...so do the Dom/me and the submissive...just in a more formalized way.

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):  realizes my sociologist stuff is leaking out and tries to beat it back in the toybag

[16:19]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Grins

[16:19] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): control yourself woman! ;p

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much Autumn!  I'd love to hear how things are going if you and  your Master want to share with us!

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

[16:20]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I will let him know

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Imy, thanks for waiting, you are up!

[16:20] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): (To be fair, I am sleepy lol.  But I'm also back and forth getting the final chores done so I can head home soon.)  I say this at least half-jokingly, but there are sometimes that I wonder if I'm truly submissive at all or if I'm simply letting my autism rule and becoming drawn to Dominants because they provide structure and tell me exactly what to do.  xD  I... had more to say but my train of thought has been delayed by my lack of sleep sooo I'll leave it for now.  Also, "good pet" is my favorite gender neutral praise.  Just to add that to the conversation for those Dominants dealing with enby partners - another one for your arsenal to make us squirm a bit.  (The ADHD is ADHD'ing this morning - I'm so sorry lol) #

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): walks over to Imy and snuggles her tight

[16:21] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): ♥

[16:21] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast):  giggles and snuggles back.

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): First, I don't think "truly submissive" is meaningful to anyone but ourselves and the person to whom we connect.

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone outside of that saying "ur doing it wrng" can go fly a kite, to be nice.

[16:22] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): lol, yes

[16:23] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): Sit and spin -nods nods-

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So, how you and your Master connect is 100% right for you, and your being a real submissive is simply "are you happy where you are?"  If that answer is "yes" it's all good.  And I also think that one thing *all* subs desire is structure!

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's a sliding scale, of course.

[16:24] RB (RBQuinn Resident): What is 'enby'?

[16:24] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): Non-binary, Master RB

[16:24] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ty

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Good Pet" is a good one! ♥

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "What does enby stand for? Enby or NB is simply an abbreviated way of saying nonbinary."

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so it's just a written "vocalization" of NB.

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A whole workshop could be made of BDSM and gender variance.

[16:28] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): chuckles.

[16:28] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): and not to be mixed with RB=Rogue Binary

[16:28] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I was afraid it was some far-flung region of the personality classification, beyond INTJ, etc.

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I can see that RB!

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): One thing I've always loved about the BDSM community is how it largely embraces gender variance....people are people and are all welcome.

[16:28] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): nods lots.

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): One night several years ago some d00d came to my First Life club and actually asked the Dungeon Monitor "why are there so many transwomen here?  Is this a gay club?"

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He was told "if you don't like it, the f*ing door is right there."  He left in a huff.

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yeah....but we also get people who think we're a brothel so it's not totally uncommon to get nitwits

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyway, we're going on a tangent

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much Imy!! ♥

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The next comment is an anonymous one

[09:32] Coffee Discussion Tracker: Anonymous message: Q....ive always known i had a sub side since i was a young teen in rl...wit hmy wife iafter a tiem realized shehad a dom side...she didnt acept she had...I told her she had to embrace it..and not deny it...slovly we have tried out our sub/dom  side

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That is very cool!

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And often that is how D/s starts....a vanilla couple start reading about BDSM and realize they have a personality toward one side or the other...then  the other person gets into it..and before you know it...another D/s couple are born!

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "You have 150 lb bouncing baby sub!"

[16:35] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): wooohoo! wet that diaper, girl!

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hey if they're into that...we never kink shame!

[16:36] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): ykinmybik

[16:36] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): maybe one too many letters ;p

[16:37] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ykinmkbykio

[16:37] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): ♥

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a friend that had a side biz for a while making BDSM furniture....he was commissioned by a fellow to make an adult sized crib for him.  My friend quoted a price and the guy paid up immediately, saying he was happy he found someone to make it for him!

[16:38] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): its indeed rare to find good quality in that regard

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): My friend said "I don't care what he does...all I care about is cash...he pays, he gets his crib with a smile."

[16:38] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): at the dungeon, we bought a psychiatry bed, it works

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): oooo!

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks to whoever gave that comment

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok, I have one question to the group to close out

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): No Cs please if you care to answer...just answer

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Is romantic love fully compatible with D/s? Meaning can you be romantically in love with each other and still fully express dominance and submission in a very strict, formal way? Some theorize they are separate from each other...others disagree. What do you think (again..no Cs!) ;)

[16:41]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): For me, it is, if there weren't a romantic connection as well, it wouldn't be the same

[16:41] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): Would that fall into a more Domestic BDSM?

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It might Rachel

[16:42] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): Let's they married for love...but then moved into a D/s relationship...the core is still love..right?

[16:43] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): *let's say

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nods

[16:43] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): many onions to peel in that question Miss Vanni

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Master Jameson and his girl Rhonda here do a 50s form of D/s where she lives as both his 50s style wife and his submissive....and they seem to be very happy

[16:45] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): murmurs about "do not say Leave it to Beaver"

[16:45] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): I think yes, I need to feel a deep connection with my partners. Feeling I am hurting someone I care about, and its consensual is a big plus for me. I also need to have "vanilla" moments, build intimacy, as I mainly seek to grow as well as helping my partners grow. So we need to understand our needs, but also our future aspirations... yes, we can do that without romanticism, but for me, its the way to bliss. Where I draw a line is that any BDSM activity is never centered around sex, if it happens, it does, if not, then its still great. And I agree with Rachel, we could peel a large onion to finally get to a definitive answer.

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): indeed!

[16:46] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I doubt there IS a definitive answer -- it seems much too personal a question to find unanimity

[16:46] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): yusp

[16:47] Georges (NoButNoIf Resident): smiles listening actively

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): People not familiar with the scene are often boggled to find out that the vast majority of scenes at a club do not involve kinky sex

[16:47] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): nods in agreement

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've been a member for over 12 years, never had sex with anyone and only a very few times ever touched a person's "privates"

[16:48] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): dang, I was talking to a guy this spring, new to the dungeon, so I tried to steer him towards kink, get to know him, and the conversation ended with "what is it you are looking for tonight?" "well, if someone was to suck my dick, I'd be happy" lol

[16:48] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *Image RUINED*  /sarcasm

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): omg lol

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ha ha Johan!

[16:48] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): lol

[16:49] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): so many expect the submissive won't say no, so they see this as a free sex zone

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): : I ask because if a vanilla couple start getting involved in D/s (as opposed to say only bedroom BDSM games) some aspects of what they do will change.

[16:50] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): (I got distracted again, reading back up to the question lol)  For me it's worked.  My love for my Master simply increases my devotion.  I ~have run into more sensual Dominants who find that Their love decreases Their desire to do the more harsh S/m things that I enjoy from time to time, but the openness of my typical relationships allow me to discreetly get that elsewhere if need by.

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Makes sense!

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As RB said, there is no definitive answer

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We aren't here to figure out the "one true way"

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): oh yes 100%

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have several friends who are couples and have kids, and are kinky, and kink is never seen  or discussed with them

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Of course at some point the kids will likely figure out something is up and will ask a question or two...they'll have to handle that when the time comes

[16:54] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): I was never the kid who found their mother's flogger.  I was, however, the kid whose mother found my flogger, and we've just acted like it never happened and haven't talked about it since xD

[16:54] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): awww lol

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I do think raising kids in a family that accepts people and is in general positive about expressions of love and sex would be the best way...then if kids find out their parents are kinky, it's just 'that's what mom and dad do'

[16:56] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): exactly

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just like when they find out...to their SHOCK AND HORROR...they are a result of a sex act of their parents...

[16:57] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): A normal part of their lives?

[16:57] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): Then it's accepted as such...I would hope

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Young people find out what sex is and often get a big squirmy that their parents roll around on the bed together lol

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or at least they used to

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Gen Z might be more "eh..." about it...

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyway, food for thought!

[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): <-- still traumatized by walking into the living room and seeing it though

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): oooops

[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Yeah, not the best vision in the world

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yeah one Saturday morning my parents forgot to shut the door...I got up to watch cartoons and saw them .... what they called 'wrestling'

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I didn't think much of it though lol

[17:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Had to get to Scooby Doo

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and with that we'll close

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks for a great chat today

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): in two weeks..."sub vs slave!"

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): you are all what makes this great

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I just lead it

[17:02] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): merci ma chérie, it was nice to be back and witness such a great event ♥

"PD is for PolyDomination!" -- June 15, 2025

 [15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok let's start up!

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As I said in my announcement, Poly is a rather common thing here in SL....much more than in First Life.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And in the BDSM community even more so.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It isn't uncommon for a Dominant to have 2, 3, 4 or more submissive in a household.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Years ago I was asked to be #8 in this Domme's growing household...which she said would be 20+.....

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I politely passed that amazing chance...

 

[15:46] RB (RBQuinn Resident): smirks

 

[15:46] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): o.O

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If you have to take a number and wait that many days....maybe it's a bit much...BUT, to each their own.

 

[15:46]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Grins

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we talk about a form of Poly that is somewhat less, or maybe a lot less discussed, than the usual "Dominant with multiple subs

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The less common form is Poly-Dominance, where a submissive has several Dom s that they report to, take orders from, and likely even have on their collar as "co-owners."

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm not talking about "open" kind of D/s relationships where Dominants tell their charges, "Go have fun with Sir/Miss Fancypants, and then come back here for further orders."

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That is also pretty common.

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Nor do I mean where a sub or set of subs are with a Dominant couple.

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Who have equal control over then in a negotiated setting.

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I mean the sub is really co-owned by multiple Dom s, in a reverse of how a Dominant is the Master or Mistress of several subs.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We covered this a couple years ago, and the feelings were mixed, so I thought as we are discussing D/s it would be good to bring back and see if the august assembly had new and different views on it.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And before we start, the usual caveat: there is no "one right way," what people decide to do consensually is 100% their biz and that's it. So this isn't a "let's praise or raspberry the idea" as much as talk about it and see.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So what do you think? Good or bad? Does this work or does it not? I'd love to hear both from our Dominants and our submissives, especially if any have been involved in Polydomination.  All views are welcome, naturally!

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): RB when you are ready, please!

 

[15:52] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident):   smiles and greets Sir MansooR from her cushion

 

[15:53] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): Rachel..:)

 

[15:53] RB (RBQuinn Resident): The asymmetry of the usual power direction in a D/s relationship kinda argues against poly-domination.  Subs are accustomed to being directed and waiting their turn.  Dominants (present company excepted) are notorious for NOT being so. #

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Devil's Advocate:  But in this arrangement they don't have to wait!

 

[15:54] Brantlay (Brantlay Resident): Greetings all Dominants and all Submissives, kindly grant me a minute to rez

 

[15:54] RB (RBQuinn Resident): They have to wait if the sub is serving the'other'

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ohhh I see what you mean

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): misread it

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This is true....the sub is split between multiple Dominants and that might cause an issue.

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That is a good point!

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I am glad we're getting both Dom  and sub views in the queue

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good start RB, thank you!

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Lexis please!

 

[15:56] RB (RBQuinn Resident): nods and smiles to Miss Vanni ;)

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[15:56] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): I can imagine quite happily being co-owned by two Dommes, but not two -separate- Dommes... I'd imagine the two Dommes would have to know each other quite well and work closely together as a single 'unit', otherwise there is just too big a conflict of interest. Right?

 

[15:56] May O. Mingzi (MayOMingzi Resident):   nods

 

[15:57] Brantlay (Brantlay Resident): Thank you

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That has been a comment before, Lexis...that the sub may well get contradictory orders

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I do think that communication all around would be necessary.

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Which is what we've always said here.

 

[15:58] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Amen!

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): No talk is no bueno!

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Very good point thanks Lexis!

 

[15:58] May O. Mingzi (MayOMingzi Resident): I think it could work if the two Dominants communicate well with each other so as to avoid conflicting orders for the sub, and are generally not online at the same time, like one is around in the mornings and the other is available in the evenings.

 

[15:58] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Ha! Time share sub

 

[15:59] May O. Mingzi (MayOMingzi Resident):   grins

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yeah try getting out of that...you need a lawyer....oh SUB...not just time share.

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good point thanks!

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ayla, please!

 

[16:00] Ayla (sofiastarlady Resident): Well, IRl, I have seen cases where subs serve specific play areas/dungeons. In that way, they serve multiple dominants. I think it's a good thing, for someone first getting into BDSM. I have seen that, also, with online settings. I think that can be a positive thing; however, I think if a sub was owned by multiple dominants, that could be very confusing. It would take a LOT of communication. Being owned by a couple is nice, though. :) Those are my thoughts on it!

 

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh yes, but I wouldn't call what goes on in a dungeon/club as "polydomination"...That's Top/Bottom fun which has no real D/s connection to it

 

[16:01] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): I can neither confirm nor deny having the 'Dom-couple' fantasy...

 

[16:02] RB (RBQuinn Resident): laughs

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The second part of your comment is more what I am getting at...being owned by multiple Dominants

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And your point of confusion is well taken, Ayla!

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've known quite a number of subs that were co-owned by a Dominant couple

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It can be rather tasty for sure *grins*

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ayla, thank you for your comment!

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Autumn please

 

[16:04]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): For me, I don't think I could have multiple doms, it would get too confusing for me.  Some of this may have to do with my autism, but what if there were conflicting commands.  One says I can never do xyz, another says always do it.  Plus, as RB said, what if I'm with one, and another calls for me, how would I know what to do? And what if they don't get along with each other, that would make things worse.  It would be far too overwhelming for me. A couple would be different, they would be working together, but there always would have to be the one that is the final say for me. #

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed, I do think all that is possible in terms of complications, Autumn.

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Again...if there is lots of communication between all the parties it's possible that could be minimized.

 

[16:05]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): For me it would have to be a TON of communication

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All very good points, thank you for sharing that Autumn!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Yua please

 

[16:07] Yua Takeda (Yua Takeda): Before I say anything else at all I would like tl let people know that I am extremely shy, rarely come to these, and when I do, I rarely volunteer to actively comment, but, in this case... this particular topic sort of screams my life.. so.

 

[16:09] Yua Takeda (Yua Takeda): I have spent the past 10 years in a household living under two dominant women.    It works.    We don't bother scheduling things, we don't bother worrying about who gets when.  It just simply works naturally because of people having multiple interests that can draw them away to other things for periods of time.     I will say it is absolutely not for everyone though.  It will fuck some people up emotionally.

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm glad it does work for you Yua!

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But that's why I was sort of differentiating a household with two (or more!) Dominants and their co-owned subs, and a sub who "travels" between multiple Dom s that aren't part of the same household.

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think in general, what you have going is great and has a much higher degree of success.

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's where the sub is shuttling between 2, 3, or more "Households" that more problems seem to arise.

 

[16:12] Yua Takeda (Yua Takeda): I will mention that neither of them are together with each other.

 

[16:12] RB (RBQuinn Resident): And, kudos to you, Yua, for coming out of your shell to tell us about your situation :)

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, your comment is welcome!

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So just to be clear, they are in the same household as Dominants but are not connected to each other?

 

[16:14] Yua Takeda (Yua Takeda): Yep.  One's my wife, one is just her friend.  They're not together as a couple.

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Got you.

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Cool and again I'm glad it works. :)

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you for that!

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Rachel with a question.

 

[16:15] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident):   takes a deep breath...slowly exhales then softly asks the group as a whole.  "First to any subs do you ever feel the need to have another Dom  to protect or give advise when their Master isn't online SL...or in RL situation to be there when unable to communicate with your Dom?...Next...how do the Dom  feel about allowing that protection to their Sub?  I think my question may have been answered in part by May or may not" double  entendre intentional, but if not...#

 

[16:16] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): So for me, I have had and allow certain other trusted Dominants (Sara for example) to be a 'mentor' and or trusted person for Kahlan and Sydney.  I know that she will have their safety and security in mind, and if they cross the line (they haven't yet) she would be quick to snap the finger and pull them back. #

 

[16:17] Yua Takeda (Yua Takeda): My wife once told me having her friend being my second domme is like having a babysitter for when she's away. If that answers that at all..

 

[16:18] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I have a very wide 'white knight' streak, so I often am giving help or advice to subs who do not belong to me.

 

[16:18] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): can confirm

 

[16:18]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I have had owners that had close friends that I was to go to if they were away and something came up #

 

[16:18] May O. Mingzi (MayOMingzi Resident): I believe part of the philosophy of Xaara is that all Dominants are responsible for protecting the submissives here, whether or not they are owned. So any Dominant who is secure is going to welcome someone else helping or protecting one of his or her subs in informal situations. A more established "protection" arrangement between two or more Dominants would require discussion.

 

[16:18] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Yes, a trusted dominant or friend can certainly be asked to provide protection and mentorship when the primary dominant is not online. If either party feels that’s necessary, they should absolutely have an open and honest dialog about what that means.

 

[16:19] Joel Lightfoot (JoelJSA Resident): If I needed help or advice when my Mistress was not available, there are several Doms here at Xaara that I would feel comfortable going to.#

 

[16:20] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident):   smiles gently at all the answers that helped clarify..."Thank you for helping me"

 

[16:20] daks Ravenclaw (Dakota50 Resident): My Dominant shares me with his companion.  I answer to her as my Docent while on sim.  At home she is my Mistress although she has never overstepped Master.  I also have others that I may seek out if needed.

 

[16:20] May O. Mingzi (MayOMingzi Resident): There are Dominants with whom Master has close relationships, like Miss Arella, Sir RB and Miss Seli, to whom I would go if Master suddenly became unavailable for a long time. He has indicated his trust in them, and they know us well.

 

[16:20] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Related question... having another dom look out for and help your sub is one thing... but what about letting them have free reign to 'play with' your sub?

 

[16:20] Seli (Seliara Elton):   blushes happily  and smiles at May

 

[16:20] Christina (Christina Halpin): RB is basically always there for me

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'd say that's up to all the parties, Lexis, but again we're back to commnication.

 

[16:22] RB (RBQuinn Resident): @Lexis:  I have always not restricted my subs from playing with others.  The last few years, none of them have wanted to take advantage of that

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good point!  Being given permission for something and then doing it are often exclusive.

 

[16:23]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): nods

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent!

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): wait I see daks typing (as I used chat bubbles)

 

[16:24] daks Ravenclaw (Dakota50 Resident): hahha

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it really helps in discussions!

 

[16:24] daks Ravenclaw (Dakota50 Resident): I was going to say I am allowed to play with anyone of my choice, but I have not had the inkly to!

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nods nods

 

[16:25] daks Ravenclaw (Dakota50 Resident): kept busy..ahaha

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you all for your comments and answers!

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And thank you Rachel for posing the question

 

[16:25] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): Thank you for allowing it...

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm sweet that way :P

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   giggles

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We'll move on to Johan please

 

[16:26] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I could see it working; but there would have to be even MORE communication and understanding regarding Negotiations and agreements. Both dominants would need to be on the same page as to what they each agree to allow and are comfortable with. Even then I don't think there would be a 50-50 equality in the situation as there would ALWAYS bit some level of partiality towards one or another. Otherwise, just like RB said, you end up with two different 'tugs' on the leash and not knowing which one to follow. Kahlan/Sydney and I tried it early on in our relationship with their former owner Tristan and lets just say it was a hot mess to the point Sydney no longer feels comfortable with two Dominants at all even if one is just 'play friend' Dominant.    It is definitely a HUGE amount of Communication, AND Clarification to make sure everyone is 100% on the same page. #done

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100%!!!!

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And no matter how mature we all are (or think we are.... ;) ) .... jealousy is a real potential issue (not saying you were Johan...)

 

[16:27] May O. Mingzi (MayOMingzi Resident):   laughs

 

[16:27] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Just the opposite actually, Tristan couldn't handle "ME" being their CO-Dominant :)

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But what we idealize vs how it plays out can be quite different.

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ha!

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said and thanks for the comment Johan!

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Magnus we move to you please!

 

[16:28] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): First off, thank you to everyone who has shared, and will share, their thoughts. Especially the shy ones; I appreciate your input more than you know.

In my opinion, and only my opinion, Poly-Dominance (where the submissive serves multiple, non-affiliated dominants) is good or bad only on the level of whether it works for all parties involved. I’ve been involved in situations with girls who have multiple dominants and I’ve found that I don’t like it. I have very specific preferences, and I’ve found that a submissive serving multiple dominants has less depth with each of them. For those who engage in D/s on a scene by scene basis, it worked out just fine. However, for someone like me who wants a deeper connection, a full lifestyle commitment, I’ve personally found that the submissive is too divided to serve with her whole heart. Again, just my personal experience with it. #done

 

[16:29]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Nods hard

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said!

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As I am a sociologist I've studied a bit of polyamory in First Life and that's very much what vanilla people that don't want to be involved in Polyamory say..."How can you 100% love and be connected to multiple people?"  It is a very legitimate question.

 

[16:30] Ayla (sofiastarlady Resident): Smiles and nods softly at those last comments and the pionts made.

 

[16:31] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Ah, but love is different. Love is limitless.

 

[16:31] Yua Takeda (Yua Takeda): What is love, baby don't hurt me~

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But couldn't a sub say much the same?  "If my Master/Mistress has 2 other subs, aren't they 'splitting time' rather than being devoted to me?"

 

[16:31] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): ^5 Magnus

 

[16:32] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Many subs DO say that, and they should stay away from poly type situations!

 

[16:32] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): They certainly could, Vanessa. And it's entirely fair for them to make the choice to not engage in a poly household.

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And love the feeling vs love as action (or praxis) are different I think.

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:32] RB (RBQuinn Resident): winks at Magnus *jinx*

 

[16:33] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo):   chuckles.

 

[16:33] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident):   laughs softly

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Which is why I don't have a lot of respect for Dom s that just "bring home" new subs and say "here's your new sister/brother..."...but I think the people here would all find that troublesome.

 

[16:34]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Nods

 

[16:34] Ayla (sofiastarlady Resident): nods at that last point especially.

 

[16:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think that comes more from Gorean type rp and crossed over into the larger BDSM groups from there.

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Amen, Johan!

 

 

[16:35] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident):   nods and then says "needs a connection for it to work"

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Magnus thank you for those wise words, great comment!

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Brantlay has two questions ;)

 

[16:35] Brantlay (Brantlay Resident): I have only one question the other was a mistypo...

I once met a sub, who said she is an alpha sub, meaning she is sub with master and dom to other subs of the master... would such a situation qualify as polydomination for the beta subs?

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good question!

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): what think y'all

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (remember no C!)

 

[16:36] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I would say 'depends' *laughs*  but chances are yes

 

[16:36] daks Ravenclaw (Dakota50 Resident): a alpha sub does not mean she is dom to other submissive

 

[16:36] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I had that situation years ago, and I don't think either I or my alpha sub saw it as poly-domination.

 

[16:36]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): That sounds more like a switch or service top to me

 

[16:36] daks Ravenclaw (Dakota50 Resident): smiles

 

[16:37] Ayla (sofiastarlady Resident): Alpha subs are pretty common in Ds families, but I never thought of that dynamic as poly domination because at the end of the day, everyone still answers to a Master, Mistress, or Ds couple....but I see the point and it's a good question.

 

[16:37] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): That is a great question, Brantlay. Personally, I don’t believe that it qualifies as poly-dominance because of the assumption that the alpha slave is working strictly within the master’s guidelines. They’re more of an assistant, really.

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed

 

[16:37] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think it could be, if that is how they set up their dynamic.  But in general Alpha subs are more like "First Girl" or "En Slave" in Gor.  Still a Sub, but they have switch rights and can direct the other submissives in what is required.

 

[16:38]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): nods

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think an "Alpha Sub" is a sort of Majordomo of the household

 

[16:38] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): That's a good way to put it, Vanessa.

 

[16:38] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident):   nods in agreement...handles the hosuehold

 

[16:38] Brantlay (Brantlay Resident): I think that explains it... Thank you Mistress Vanessa

 

[16:39] RachelHolt (RachelHolt Resident): Maybe the alsph sub help take away from the pressure the Dom  has

 

[16:39] May O. Mingzi (MayOMingzi Resident): I guess I would be "alpha sub" in our family, but that's partly because Idgie had no experience with D/s until she joined us whereas I have decades. So it's more like a big sister ntor relationship. She takes my instructions because I'm teaching her.

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Brantlay good question!

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And again thank you all for your replies

 

[16:39] Brantlay (Brantlay Resident): Thank you all

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): May you are up please

 

[16:43] May O. Mingzi (MayOMingzi Resident): My comment goes back to the earlier idea that polydominance would be easier if the two Dominants were a couple, and also to the point of some people suddenly bringing in a new brother/sister. A D/s relationship usually doesn't start out with a couple. But the Dominant may fall in love with and partner with someone. Then you have a situation where you have to see if the submissives under that first Dominant feel comfortable having new Dominant having authority over them. You have to build new relationships, which may or may not work. And if it does, great. But then the Dominants may have a divorce - sometimes a very bitter one - and then do the subs still respond to the person who has left the family?#

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh good points!!

 

[16:44] Brantlay (Brantlay Resident): So many angles !

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Bringing in another person to an existing dynamic is always fraught with potential perils.

 

[16:45] Christina (Christina Halpin): and opportunities

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): truth!

 

[16:45] Ayla (sofiastarlady Resident): Great points, May. Lots to consider there. Nods.

 

[16:45] RB (RBQuinn Resident): In the breakups I have been in, I have given the sub involved the freedom to choose.

 

[16:45] RB (RBQuinn Resident): smiles at his unicorn

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): May, what I would say is long before the partnering, there would need to be time for everyone to get to know each other and let the relationships build organically

 

[16:46] RB (RBQuinn Resident): "You can't hurry love . . . ."

 

[16:46] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): "No, you'll just have to wait..."

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A Dominant telling their charges "This is my new Dominant spouse and you WILL obey" is gonna go over like the proverbial lead balloon.

 

[16:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "I mean you can if you pay by the minute..." err.. what?

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But the hyperspeed of SL relationship can often lead to quick things...

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That may or may not work.

 

[16:47] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): and when you add a 3rd or 4th party into that, Hyperspeed is ripe for problems.

 

[Snip movie quotes here!]

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well unfortunately we are getting close to ten so I think we need to cut here

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you all for your amazing input!

 

[16:53] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Thank you all for the engaging conversation.

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In two weeks we'll go into "Submission" in general

 

[16:53] RB (RBQuinn Resident): A discussion for the ages, Vanni!  Thank you :)

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And then we'll talk about a couple forms of D/s....Babygirl/Daddy-Dom and....the Brat!

"D is for Domination" -- June 1, 2025

 [15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As an instructor I like "As" rather than "Cs"....

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:43] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   smirks.

 

[15:43] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins

 

[15:43] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *sad trombone*

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We continue with our set of Discussions on the BDSM acronym, today going into the middle part...D/s, or "Domination" and "Submission"

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today our topic is Domination.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): D/s is related to but different from being a Top and a Bottom.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Tops and Bottoms are roles in *scenes* -- I go to my local club and usually act as a Top, occasionally a Bottom, in a scene that goes 1-2 hours.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): After the scene is over, the very temporary power exchange ends, we're back to 'neutral.'

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I usually only rarely talk to anyone I scene with live....check ins to be sure they are ok, and then plans for our next disgusting, appalling but oh-so-fun encounter.

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Domination and submission on the other hand are characteristics that transcend the one-off scene.

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): There is a real psychological and sociological aspect to being a "Dominant" or a "submissive".

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So four questions to consider as we move to comments from the August Assembly...

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 1)  What is Domination? Is it an attitude, is it a role, is it a psychology and sociology? A combination and maybe more?

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 2) What is it that makes our Dominants here "Dominant," or what do sub-types see as "Dominant"? How would it be described?

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 3)  Why do Dom s do what it is they do (Dominate in various areas)...what drives Them to wanting that control?

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and 4) why are s-types so attracted to this? Why would they drop what they are doing and to their knees if the right Dom  comes along and just gives them that ***LOOK***?

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You can go with any of these or branch off as long as it relates to Domination!

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So with that...formulate a comment or question!

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   sits back and sips French Roast...

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wynter, when you are ready please!

 

[15:52] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): So I'll start off with the part about what makes a Dominant, "Dominant" and what s-types see as "Dominant." (more)

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *nods*

 

[15:53] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): There are about as many flavors of Dominance as there are flavors of submission. So there is someone out there for everyone. I think the biggest ingredient in Domination, aside from that lingering desire to control someone in some form or fashion, is consent. I have a quote that I love in that regards..

 

[15:53] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): "Dominance is the inspiration and seduction of consent. Dominating someone means leading them to feel safe enough, connected enough, respectful enough or even worshipful enough to say "yes" to your control." - Anton Fulmen

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   purrs

 

[15:54] Seli (Seliara Elton): "Ohhh that's a good one"

 

[15:54] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Well said!

 

[15:54] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): So, I think that plays largely, into what creates that power play.#

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love that!

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and I agree...what separates the Dom  from the bully...among other things of course...is that the s-types *wants* to be led.

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *wants* to be told what to do

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and yes the Dom  inspires that

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hello Alisson!

 

[15:56] Alisson (Alisson Harmony): Hello Miss Vanessa. Hi everyone. Sorry to be late

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well....now you WON'T be spanked today Alisson!  Let that be a lesson to you!  *grins evily*

 

[15:57] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   grins.

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ya gotta know where to hit where it counts when you're a sadist.

 

[15:57] Alisson (Alisson Harmony): Oh bummer. Smiles

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wynter thanks for starting us off! ♥

 

[15:57] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Of course :)

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Brian please!

 

[15:59] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Thank you, Van.  In my world, when conversing with the inexperienced with the Lifestyle, I talk of D/s in terms of energy.  Where vanilla relationships are often rather horizontal, D/s creates a vertical polarity that, in the right measures of skill, needs, experience, etc., creates a synergy that improves both parties.  The need to control as visceral as the need to be controlled, both gain what they need when the understanding phases are completed and the dynamic takes hold in earnest.  Most seem to understand this concept well without much fuss in my experience.

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): omg...you used one of my favorite words...visceral....

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   swoons

 

[16:00] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And yes!  D/s is a *dynamic*....each needs the other!

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): because they are complimentary roles

 

[16:01] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Indeed

 

[16:01] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): I'm finished, thank you #

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Life is so un-nerving for a servant who's not serving"...but a leader who isn't leading is one in name but not necessarily in practice.

 

[16:02] RB (RBQuinn Resident):   hands Vanni an 'e' in case she made his favorite typo.

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lolol

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks!

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Brian, you gave me a visceral reaction with that comment! ;)

 

[16:03] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): ;) happy to help out

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Johan, please!

 

[16:03] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I agree with Wynter;  I consider myself a 'service top' in regards to my style of Dominance.  I enjoy serving the community or my submissives by giving of myself, my knowledge, my leadership and my interest in kinky fun times.  I believe that what makes that more of a Dominant vs a s type; is the leadership aspect of it. While I can and do take instructions and direction well from those appointed over me; I also give and lead others within that same scope who choose to consent to submitting whether that be in a group/society type aspect, or a more personalized 'relationship' aspect. #done

 

[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods emphatically with Johan's comment.

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's a very healthy way to explain it!!

 

[16:04] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): smiles, nodding agreement

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The Dominant person takes the leadership role...but with the consent and even advice of the sub...and no that's not 'Topping from the Bottom.'

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): TftB is taking *over* the Dominant role.

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A healthy relationship is give and take and you explained that well.

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you for that!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Vlad please!

 

[16:06] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): In my view, dominance is on a continuum- where I fit on that line is in relation to each of us here.  I tend to D on the D/s side of the leash.  Thinking of myself in this way, in relation to others,  has helped me to understand the complexities of my natural tendencies, most of which are dominant, and yet to not shy away from vulnerability.  in my opinion many dominants see vulnerability as submission or weakness, and they miss out on opening themselves to the wonder of real D/s which is an intimacy that cannot be achieved in vanilla ( for the most part).  For Me being a 'dominant' means that to my 's' I match what we need- if a friend ( without benefits- winks) then I only control so much; it is inappropriate in my view to dominate every single  's'.  I see so called dominants do this and it appalls me,.  Much like Vanni's example- in the context of the relationship be it an hour long scene, or a life long commitment, I need to lead our energy within the power exchanged within that relationship for the

 

[16:06] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident):  time period it is offered.  Done

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The bully is the person with anti-social personality disorder or sadistic disorder....they get off pushing around anyone that seems "weak" to them....which is largely everyone else.

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The Dominant might be a strong, even aggressive person, but always tied to norms and human decency.

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And the level of power exchange will vary...from an hour or two to weeks, months, years.....who knows...they work it out as they go along!

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent comment, I am so glad you came in and gave us that wisdom.  Thank you!! ♥

 

[16:10] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): you are as ever - too kind Vanni- who knew :)

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Glad to see we have a couple S-Types in the mix as well...your comments are wanted!

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Em please!

 

[16:11] Em (Em Belfire): What do I, as submissive, see as Dominant?  This is different based on the submissive.  For me confidence, able to admit when their choice or decision may have not been thought through in its regards to its affect on the sub.  You are not hesitant to show a softer side, yet you discipline when the situation warrants it.    Understands their own power over subs even unowned ones they interact with and responds accordingly.  “With great power comes great responsibility”.   Your deep desire to control me should complement the need to protect me.  The seduction of my submission will get you everything you crave as a Dominant, my absolute obedience to your  will.  This is the short comment as this is a detailed subject for me.#

 

[16:12]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): smiles and nods in agreement

 

[16:12] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement with Em.

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love that!

 

[16:12] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins

 

[16:12] Em (Em Belfire):   smiles

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's a relationship...a Dom  that just wants control minus care and protection of their charge is doing a half-assed job IMO.

 

[16:13] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): nods emphatic agreement

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And as most of you know I'm a switch...and I've made a number of mistakes and faux-pas with my charges.  I've never hesitated to apologize and strive to do better.

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The Dominant that can't take responsibility for their actions is back to "bully."...and best avoided.

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wonderful comment Em, that really encapsulated what subs want in their Dom s I think.

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Autumn, please!

 

[16:15]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I have to agree with what Wynter said, finding the right match is key.  I know that I respond the strongest, to the LOOK, and more eagerly want to be my best for my Dominant when I know they truly know me.  When I know rules, suggestions, etc are thought out and for my best interest.  Knowing that they listen and watch to learn me.  That when they push me out of my comfort zone, they will catch me if I fall.  And that they wouldn't do that if they didn't think I could do it.  They want to see me learn and grow.  That I can be vulnerable, and open with them as well.  That will make me swoon anytime they give me the LOOK.  Done

 

[16:16] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins proudly

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yessssssssssssssss

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The strongest Dom  is the one that looks at you, and in that quiet confident voice says "Dear, I want you to do XX" and your heart pounds and you WANT to do it....yes?

 

[16:17]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Very much so, yes

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's Domination and you explained it so well Autumn.

 

[16:17] Em (Em Belfire): Agreed whole heartedly

 

[16:17]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): smiles

 

[16:17] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):   nods

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Goddess I love our lifestyle so much.

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): :)

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you Autumn!

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The August Assembly never fails to give great comments.

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back to Wynter please!

 

[16:19] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I also wanted to segue into the "why" of Dominance because I know the "why's" can vary differently. I am what one might refer to as a nurturing Dominant. I do have my moments of sadism (and as Vanni said, my charges happen to love that appalling oh so wonderful moments) but at the end of the day, I control them in the areas they consent, so that I can improve upon their lives, but it also improves my life.

I am neurodivergent, so structure can do worlds for me, and the creation of that structure is structure in and of itself. I love watching my charges grow under my leadership, watching them soar and discover things about themselves they didn't know. And I protect them fiercely when that exchange of Loyalty is demonstrated by both parties. I am patient when needed, but we all have our limits.

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   gives Wynter an A and a huge star

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Fab!!!

 

[16:20] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins always glad for like minded F/folk

 

[16:20]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): smiles and nods

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It should always be about improvement...making people better

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A Dominant builds up, a bully tears down.

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And yes it's done clearly in that structure of the relationship.

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So well said, thank you Wynter!!!

 

[16:21] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Welcome Vanni :)

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's go to Liss please!

 

[16:21] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): Over time I've had people who have been interested in me and tried to be dominants in the hope that will impress me. My lesson from that is "One can learn to be a better dominant but one can't learn to be a dominant."#

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Aha!  This is a good point.

 

[16:22] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Indeed.

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let me ask a question to the group..and no Cs please...just answer if you want to...

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Do you think that Domination is a characteristic of a person...and if so how can it be improved (again, NO Cs please!...just answer if you wish)

 

[16:24] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): I see it as a facet of personality.  Some have more than the D, thus switches and some are just Ds as some s-folk are more or less in depth of need in their submission.

 

[16:24] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): I think it is and experience is the way to improve. People have been saaying they've made mistakes and learnt from them.

 

[16:24] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I think there is a nature vs. nurture thing here.. some need the right environment, some need the right person, some just come by it naturally... and I think it's very much a spectrum.. it's why we have so many Dominant archetypes.

 

[16:24] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think it can; like you said the difference between Dominance and Bullying. A person may start as a Bully; but if they have the emotional maturity to learn from others (likely another Dominant they respect moreso than a sub) they have the ability to 'do better'.

 

[16:24] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I do not see how it could be otherwise, Vanni.  If 'domination' is just your way to get an easy lay, I doubt any true submissive will fall for it.

 

[16:24]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I think it is, and being willing to learn from mistakes and accept feed back is a great way to "do better" and grow

 

[16:25] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): And if we can't learn and improve ourselves, we have no business attempting to improve others

 

[16:25] Em (Em Belfire): In my personal experience, Domination is a characteristic.  The ones i meet that do not have this are mostly playing or looking for sex.  This is not meant to be a disrespectful at all just be honest about it is all i ask.#

 

[16:25] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement with Brian.

 

[16:26] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Agreed Em;  I used to have a saying at *cough* another lifestyle 'training-rp' SIM..   Some people are Dominants who roleplay; others are roleplaying Dominance"

 

[16:26] RB (RBQuinn Resident):   winks at Em and mouths "jinx!"

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee

 

[16:26] Cyan (Cyan08 Resident): I bvelieve it is a personality trait and that it can be imporved if you are matched well with an s type.  Just as a dominant teaches, guides and portects that person, the submissive can also challenge the dominant to imporve... It is a symbiotic relationship where each feeds off the other..

 

[16:26] Em (Em Belfire):   giggles and smiles

 

[16:26] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Truth, Johan

 

[16:26] Seli (Seliara Elton): That's such a great distinction, Johan

 

[16:26] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): I opine any of us has some 'dominance' no one is 100% slave, yet any of us can improve whatever side of the slash we are on- by our vulnerability to our own journey and by learning, and appreciaitng the gift of any s who offer her pwoer in exchange to us as a D. #

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Nothing wrong with Tops and Bottoms wanting kinky sex btw....as long as 1) it's consensual and 2) it's clear that's *all* that's happening, we're not pretending this is a D/s relationship.

 

[16:27] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):   nods to Cyan

 

[16:27] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I will agree with Em, there is a certain 'energy', 'air', 'vibe' that tends to roll off someone who inspires submission in someone. Someone can criticize me and so long as there's nothing to correct in terms of respectfulness, I'll take that criticism in kind. There are some out there, you tell them a hair is sticking up and you might as well have offended their dearest friend or something.

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so true!!

 

[16:28] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): nods agreement with Wynter

 

[16:28]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): nods smiling

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All excellent replies thank you!!

 

[16:28] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Wynter!  Why are you kicking their puppy!! /teasing

 

[16:28] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   laughs.

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I think we're on the same wavelength here which is why I love our community so much.

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said thanks!

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And thank you Liss for your comment that spurred that!

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we go to Kahlan please!

 

[16:29] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): 'A Dom builds, a bully tears down' ... usually but not always. (hear me out!) Many times as subs, we come with our own flavors of trauma and issues. Sometimes for our own betterment, our Chosen Dom must first do the work of taking us apart brick by painstaking brick in order to build us back up to our truest potential. A bully will just throw duces and a wrecking ball in your direction and give a flying fig about what damage they have done. A Dom that actually wishes to do right by the sub, and their own conscious, will try not to inflict more damage than what was already present. ##

 

[16:30] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Thank you for pointing that process out, Kahlan! You're right.

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I don't disagree with that at all Kahlan.

 

[16:30]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): grins and nods in agreement with Kahlan

 

[16:30] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): I'm in the medical professions and sometimes one has to hurt someone to get real healing going.  That is true in D/s too.

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Tearing down the built facade slowly and replacing it with health *is* Domination.  The bully tears you down, sneers and walks off.

 

[16:31] Connie (Constanse Levenque):   leans back and kisses His hand "Take care Master, see You later"

 

[16:31] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Agreed Monkey;   A book I recently read regarding 'training/protocols' the author likened it to Military Basic Training for the Marines (he was  former Marine after all)    They 'break you down' often quickly and seemingly uncaringly; so that in a quick six week process they can mold you into a Marine.    Dominants can be very similar; though a bully doesn't care about building you back up, They just enjoy the pain of tearing down. #done

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:32] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Yes.

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What the military is doing is personality alteration

 

[16:32] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): *smiles back over her shoulder and grips his ankle in a loving hold

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): to get people into a command-group style of thinking....you can't be 'an Army of One' out in the field...you'll get killed and your squad with you

 

[16:33] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): true that!

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The Dominant is doing something very similar in what Kahlan said.

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): change the personality and facade *for the best*

 

[16:34] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): 'lord, bless this mess' is very true. I've felt like a construction zone at times with all the build Beau does! lol

 

[16:34]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): smiles

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Therapy does that too btw....I was in therapy for years thanks to my emotionally abusive mother...and it was only when I let certain things go that I was holding and broke apart my mental facade that the *real* healing began.

 

[16:35]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Nods "Therapy for sure does that"

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So what you said was really spot on and correlates in several ways to other ways to do this.

 

[16:35] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement with Vanni.

 

[16:35] Seli (Seliara Elton): My therapist is great, but is also going to be able to put a second garage on her yacht when we're done with me.

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:35] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Heh, ain't that true.

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You can go boating with her lol

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent thanks Kahlan!

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Any further questions or comments on Domination?  we still have a bit of time.

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please go ahead Wynter!

 

[16:36] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): One a bit more specific to SL, but important to consider...

 

[16:38] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I know so very often, we talk in the context of RL, especially here at Xaara. And I love that. But I also think it's important to remember that relationships can be impactful here. So in regards to that, the idea of "with great power, comes great responsibility" can end up on both ends. You're going to run into people from all walks.. one of the beauties, but sometimes one of the potential horrors of SL. You miss a lot of context here that you won't get in RL. (cont)

 

[16:39] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): So regardless of what side you end up on, always be sure to take your time. The kinky will be there, and someone once wisely said, "If they're great for you today, it should stand true that their great for you a month from now."#

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed!

 

[16:39] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): yeeeesss!

 

[16:39] Cyan (Cyan08 Resident):   nods in agreement

 

[16:40]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Very true

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In my RL community we have maybe 400 members but only half that are very active and at any party between 20-50 people show up...so that means word gets out fast if a person is "freaky" and they'll be known and if they keep it up, removed

 

[16:41] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods.

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Here in an online, open community it's not anywhere near as easy to 'vet' people

 

[16:41] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Agreed

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So yes...slow and deliberate is usually the best way to go.

 

[16:41] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):   nods

 

[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Yay classes on Red FLags :)

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *cough as that seems to be the one he teaches most*

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes it's why we have it in both the Angel and the M/M programs

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and suggest *everyone* take it

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Autumn you will have the last comment for the day!

 

[16:42]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): In addition to what Wynter said about the dynamic when it comes to SL, I find it means I need to be even more open and honest, and need the other person to be the same.  I am also Nuerodivergent, so the more clear things are made for me, the more I can be my true self.  Without second guessing or reading into everything.  Done

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed!

 

[16:42] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods a lot.

 

[16:42] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins, nodding

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If people are into mindfucking....that has to be NEGOTIATED and consensual...and checked in on

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Doing that outside of clear bounds is abuse

 

[16:43]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): nods in agreement

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I 100% agree Autumn

 

[16:43] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): nods agreement

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some Dom  thinking they can come here and mindfuck our submissives ain't gonna last long

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): minus consent of course

 

[16:44] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins

 

[16:44] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Its good to be a part of a community again that holds these standards true.  We're glad to be here.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I've had some great mindfuck scenes....at a Femdom party at the club three of us sat on a couch and had this boy on his knees unable to speak...and he loved it *giggles*

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   files my nails all Film Noir like

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We are glad you are here to Brian and Autumn!

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The more good people the better.

 

[16:46] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Thank you.

 

[16:46]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Thank you, happy to be here

 

[16:46] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement.

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok friends, thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts and wisdome.

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *wisdom...not wis-domme.

 

[16:46] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Hehe

 

[16:46] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): chuckles

 

[16:46] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Thank you Vanni- always so insightful and nurturing, thanks for all the great comments, have a great day Xaara- helps stunning Azalea off my lap and off to wander in Xaara

 

[16:47] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Yes, thanks to everyone for the wonderful input.

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And we'll be back in two weeks.....Johan will be spinning next Sunday at 8am with "Easy Like Sunday Morning"

 

[16:47] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): Thanks Vanni and A/all contributors