"D is for Domination" -- June 1, 2025

 [15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As an instructor I like "As" rather than "Cs"....

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:43] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   smirks.

 

[15:43] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins

 

[15:43] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *sad trombone*

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:43]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We continue with our set of Discussions on the BDSM acronym, today going into the middle part...D/s, or "Domination" and "Submission"

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today our topic is Domination.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): D/s is related to but different from being a Top and a Bottom.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Tops and Bottoms are roles in *scenes* -- I go to my local club and usually act as a Top, occasionally a Bottom, in a scene that goes 1-2 hours.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): After the scene is over, the very temporary power exchange ends, we're back to 'neutral.'

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I usually only rarely talk to anyone I scene with live....check ins to be sure they are ok, and then plans for our next disgusting, appalling but oh-so-fun encounter.

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Domination and submission on the other hand are characteristics that transcend the one-off scene.

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): There is a real psychological and sociological aspect to being a "Dominant" or a "submissive".

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So four questions to consider as we move to comments from the August Assembly...

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 1)  What is Domination? Is it an attitude, is it a role, is it a psychology and sociology? A combination and maybe more?

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 2) What is it that makes our Dominants here "Dominant," or what do sub-types see as "Dominant"? How would it be described?

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 3)  Why do Dom s do what it is they do (Dominate in various areas)...what drives Them to wanting that control?

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and 4) why are s-types so attracted to this? Why would they drop what they are doing and to their knees if the right Dom  comes along and just gives them that ***LOOK***?

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You can go with any of these or branch off as long as it relates to Domination!

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So with that...formulate a comment or question!

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   sits back and sips French Roast...

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wynter, when you are ready please!

 

[15:52] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): So I'll start off with the part about what makes a Dominant, "Dominant" and what s-types see as "Dominant." (more)

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *nods*

 

[15:53] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): There are about as many flavors of Dominance as there are flavors of submission. So there is someone out there for everyone. I think the biggest ingredient in Domination, aside from that lingering desire to control someone in some form or fashion, is consent. I have a quote that I love in that regards..

 

[15:53] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): "Dominance is the inspiration and seduction of consent. Dominating someone means leading them to feel safe enough, connected enough, respectful enough or even worshipful enough to say "yes" to your control." - Anton Fulmen

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   purrs

 

[15:54] Seli (Seliara Elton): "Ohhh that's a good one"

 

[15:54] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Well said!

 

[15:54] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): So, I think that plays largely, into what creates that power play.#

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love that!

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and I agree...what separates the Dom  from the bully...among other things of course...is that the s-types *wants* to be led.

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *wants* to be told what to do

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and yes the Dom  inspires that

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hello Alisson!

 

[15:56] Alisson (Alisson Harmony): Hello Miss Vanessa. Hi everyone. Sorry to be late

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well....now you WON'T be spanked today Alisson!  Let that be a lesson to you!  *grins evily*

 

[15:57] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   grins.

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ya gotta know where to hit where it counts when you're a sadist.

 

[15:57] Alisson (Alisson Harmony): Oh bummer. Smiles

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wynter thanks for starting us off! ♥

 

[15:57] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Of course :)

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Brian please!

 

[15:59] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Thank you, Van.  In my world, when conversing with the inexperienced with the Lifestyle, I talk of D/s in terms of energy.  Where vanilla relationships are often rather horizontal, D/s creates a vertical polarity that, in the right measures of skill, needs, experience, etc., creates a synergy that improves both parties.  The need to control as visceral as the need to be controlled, both gain what they need when the understanding phases are completed and the dynamic takes hold in earnest.  Most seem to understand this concept well without much fuss in my experience.

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): omg...you used one of my favorite words...visceral....

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   swoons

 

[16:00] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And yes!  D/s is a *dynamic*....each needs the other!

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): because they are complimentary roles

 

[16:01] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Indeed

 

[16:01] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): I'm finished, thank you #

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Life is so un-nerving for a servant who's not serving"...but a leader who isn't leading is one in name but not necessarily in practice.

 

[16:02] RB (RBQuinn Resident):   hands Vanni an 'e' in case she made his favorite typo.

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lolol

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks!

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Brian, you gave me a visceral reaction with that comment! ;)

 

[16:03] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): ;) happy to help out

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Johan, please!

 

[16:03] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I agree with Wynter;  I consider myself a 'service top' in regards to my style of Dominance.  I enjoy serving the community or my submissives by giving of myself, my knowledge, my leadership and my interest in kinky fun times.  I believe that what makes that more of a Dominant vs a s type; is the leadership aspect of it. While I can and do take instructions and direction well from those appointed over me; I also give and lead others within that same scope who choose to consent to submitting whether that be in a group/society type aspect, or a more personalized 'relationship' aspect. #done

 

[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods emphatically with Johan's comment.

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's a very healthy way to explain it!!

 

[16:04] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): smiles, nodding agreement

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The Dominant person takes the leadership role...but with the consent and even advice of the sub...and no that's not 'Topping from the Bottom.'

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): TftB is taking *over* the Dominant role.

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A healthy relationship is give and take and you explained that well.

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you for that!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Vlad please!

 

[16:06] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): In my view, dominance is on a continuum- where I fit on that line is in relation to each of us here.  I tend to D on the D/s side of the leash.  Thinking of myself in this way, in relation to others,  has helped me to understand the complexities of my natural tendencies, most of which are dominant, and yet to not shy away from vulnerability.  in my opinion many dominants see vulnerability as submission or weakness, and they miss out on opening themselves to the wonder of real D/s which is an intimacy that cannot be achieved in vanilla ( for the most part).  For Me being a 'dominant' means that to my 's' I match what we need- if a friend ( without benefits- winks) then I only control so much; it is inappropriate in my view to dominate every single  's'.  I see so called dominants do this and it appalls me,.  Much like Vanni's example- in the context of the relationship be it an hour long scene, or a life long commitment, I need to lead our energy within the power exchanged within that relationship for the

 

[16:06] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident):  time period it is offered.  Done

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The bully is the person with anti-social personality disorder or sadistic disorder....they get off pushing around anyone that seems "weak" to them....which is largely everyone else.

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The Dominant might be a strong, even aggressive person, but always tied to norms and human decency.

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And the level of power exchange will vary...from an hour or two to weeks, months, years.....who knows...they work it out as they go along!

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent comment, I am so glad you came in and gave us that wisdom.  Thank you!! ♥

 

[16:10] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): you are as ever - too kind Vanni- who knew :)

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Glad to see we have a couple S-Types in the mix as well...your comments are wanted!

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Em please!

 

[16:11] Em (Em Belfire): What do I, as submissive, see as Dominant?  This is different based on the submissive.  For me confidence, able to admit when their choice or decision may have not been thought through in its regards to its affect on the sub.  You are not hesitant to show a softer side, yet you discipline when the situation warrants it.    Understands their own power over subs even unowned ones they interact with and responds accordingly.  “With great power comes great responsibility”.   Your deep desire to control me should complement the need to protect me.  The seduction of my submission will get you everything you crave as a Dominant, my absolute obedience to your  will.  This is the short comment as this is a detailed subject for me.#

 

[16:12]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): smiles and nods in agreement

 

[16:12] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement with Em.

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love that!

 

[16:12] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins

 

[16:12] Em (Em Belfire):   smiles

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's a relationship...a Dom  that just wants control minus care and protection of their charge is doing a half-assed job IMO.

 

[16:13] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): nods emphatic agreement

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And as most of you know I'm a switch...and I've made a number of mistakes and faux-pas with my charges.  I've never hesitated to apologize and strive to do better.

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The Dominant that can't take responsibility for their actions is back to "bully."...and best avoided.

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wonderful comment Em, that really encapsulated what subs want in their Dom s I think.

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Autumn, please!

 

[16:15]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I have to agree with what Wynter said, finding the right match is key.  I know that I respond the strongest, to the LOOK, and more eagerly want to be my best for my Dominant when I know they truly know me.  When I know rules, suggestions, etc are thought out and for my best interest.  Knowing that they listen and watch to learn me.  That when they push me out of my comfort zone, they will catch me if I fall.  And that they wouldn't do that if they didn't think I could do it.  They want to see me learn and grow.  That I can be vulnerable, and open with them as well.  That will make me swoon anytime they give me the LOOK.  Done

 

[16:16] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins proudly

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yessssssssssssssss

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The strongest Dom  is the one that looks at you, and in that quiet confident voice says "Dear, I want you to do XX" and your heart pounds and you WANT to do it....yes?

 

[16:17]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Very much so, yes

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's Domination and you explained it so well Autumn.

 

[16:17] Em (Em Belfire): Agreed whole heartedly

 

[16:17]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): smiles

 

[16:17] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):   nods

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Goddess I love our lifestyle so much.

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): :)

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you Autumn!

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The August Assembly never fails to give great comments.

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back to Wynter please!

 

[16:19] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I also wanted to segue into the "why" of Dominance because I know the "why's" can vary differently. I am what one might refer to as a nurturing Dominant. I do have my moments of sadism (and as Vanni said, my charges happen to love that appalling oh so wonderful moments) but at the end of the day, I control them in the areas they consent, so that I can improve upon their lives, but it also improves my life.

I am neurodivergent, so structure can do worlds for me, and the creation of that structure is structure in and of itself. I love watching my charges grow under my leadership, watching them soar and discover things about themselves they didn't know. And I protect them fiercely when that exchange of Loyalty is demonstrated by both parties. I am patient when needed, but we all have our limits.

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   gives Wynter an A and a huge star

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Fab!!!

 

[16:20] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins always glad for like minded F/folk

 

[16:20]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): smiles and nods

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It should always be about improvement...making people better

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A Dominant builds up, a bully tears down.

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And yes it's done clearly in that structure of the relationship.

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So well said, thank you Wynter!!!

 

[16:21] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Welcome Vanni :)

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's go to Liss please!

 

[16:21] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): Over time I've had people who have been interested in me and tried to be dominants in the hope that will impress me. My lesson from that is "One can learn to be a better dominant but one can't learn to be a dominant."#

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Aha!  This is a good point.

 

[16:22] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Indeed.

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let me ask a question to the group..and no Cs please...just answer if you want to...

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Do you think that Domination is a characteristic of a person...and if so how can it be improved (again, NO Cs please!...just answer if you wish)

 

[16:24] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): I see it as a facet of personality.  Some have more than the D, thus switches and some are just Ds as some s-folk are more or less in depth of need in their submission.

 

[16:24] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): I think it is and experience is the way to improve. People have been saaying they've made mistakes and learnt from them.

 

[16:24] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I think there is a nature vs. nurture thing here.. some need the right environment, some need the right person, some just come by it naturally... and I think it's very much a spectrum.. it's why we have so many Dominant archetypes.

 

[16:24] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think it can; like you said the difference between Dominance and Bullying. A person may start as a Bully; but if they have the emotional maturity to learn from others (likely another Dominant they respect moreso than a sub) they have the ability to 'do better'.

 

[16:24] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I do not see how it could be otherwise, Vanni.  If 'domination' is just your way to get an easy lay, I doubt any true submissive will fall for it.

 

[16:24]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I think it is, and being willing to learn from mistakes and accept feed back is a great way to "do better" and grow

 

[16:25] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): And if we can't learn and improve ourselves, we have no business attempting to improve others

 

[16:25] Em (Em Belfire): In my personal experience, Domination is a characteristic.  The ones i meet that do not have this are mostly playing or looking for sex.  This is not meant to be a disrespectful at all just be honest about it is all i ask.#

 

[16:25] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement with Brian.

 

[16:26] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Agreed Em;  I used to have a saying at *cough* another lifestyle 'training-rp' SIM..   Some people are Dominants who roleplay; others are roleplaying Dominance"

 

[16:26] RB (RBQuinn Resident):   winks at Em and mouths "jinx!"

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee

 

[16:26] Cyan (Cyan08 Resident): I bvelieve it is a personality trait and that it can be imporved if you are matched well with an s type.  Just as a dominant teaches, guides and portects that person, the submissive can also challenge the dominant to imporve... It is a symbiotic relationship where each feeds off the other..

 

[16:26] Em (Em Belfire):   giggles and smiles

 

[16:26] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Truth, Johan

 

[16:26] Seli (Seliara Elton): That's such a great distinction, Johan

 

[16:26] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): I opine any of us has some 'dominance' no one is 100% slave, yet any of us can improve whatever side of the slash we are on- by our vulnerability to our own journey and by learning, and appreciaitng the gift of any s who offer her pwoer in exchange to us as a D. #

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Nothing wrong with Tops and Bottoms wanting kinky sex btw....as long as 1) it's consensual and 2) it's clear that's *all* that's happening, we're not pretending this is a D/s relationship.

 

[16:27] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):   nods to Cyan

 

[16:27] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I will agree with Em, there is a certain 'energy', 'air', 'vibe' that tends to roll off someone who inspires submission in someone. Someone can criticize me and so long as there's nothing to correct in terms of respectfulness, I'll take that criticism in kind. There are some out there, you tell them a hair is sticking up and you might as well have offended their dearest friend or something.

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so true!!

 

[16:28] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): nods agreement with Wynter

 

[16:28]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): nods smiling

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All excellent replies thank you!!

 

[16:28] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Wynter!  Why are you kicking their puppy!! /teasing

 

[16:28] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   laughs.

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I think we're on the same wavelength here which is why I love our community so much.

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said thanks!

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And thank you Liss for your comment that spurred that!

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we go to Kahlan please!

 

[16:29] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): 'A Dom builds, a bully tears down' ... usually but not always. (hear me out!) Many times as subs, we come with our own flavors of trauma and issues. Sometimes for our own betterment, our Chosen Dom must first do the work of taking us apart brick by painstaking brick in order to build us back up to our truest potential. A bully will just throw duces and a wrecking ball in your direction and give a flying fig about what damage they have done. A Dom that actually wishes to do right by the sub, and their own conscious, will try not to inflict more damage than what was already present. ##

 

[16:30] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Thank you for pointing that process out, Kahlan! You're right.

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I don't disagree with that at all Kahlan.

 

[16:30]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): grins and nods in agreement with Kahlan

 

[16:30] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): I'm in the medical professions and sometimes one has to hurt someone to get real healing going.  That is true in D/s too.

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Tearing down the built facade slowly and replacing it with health *is* Domination.  The bully tears you down, sneers and walks off.

 

[16:31] Connie (Constanse Levenque):   leans back and kisses His hand "Take care Master, see You later"

 

[16:31] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Agreed Monkey;   A book I recently read regarding 'training/protocols' the author likened it to Military Basic Training for the Marines (he was  former Marine after all)    They 'break you down' often quickly and seemingly uncaringly; so that in a quick six week process they can mold you into a Marine.    Dominants can be very similar; though a bully doesn't care about building you back up, They just enjoy the pain of tearing down. #done

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:32] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Yes.

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What the military is doing is personality alteration

 

[16:32] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): *smiles back over her shoulder and grips his ankle in a loving hold

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): to get people into a command-group style of thinking....you can't be 'an Army of One' out in the field...you'll get killed and your squad with you

 

[16:33] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): true that!

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The Dominant is doing something very similar in what Kahlan said.

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): change the personality and facade *for the best*

 

[16:34] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): 'lord, bless this mess' is very true. I've felt like a construction zone at times with all the build Beau does! lol

 

[16:34]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): smiles

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Therapy does that too btw....I was in therapy for years thanks to my emotionally abusive mother...and it was only when I let certain things go that I was holding and broke apart my mental facade that the *real* healing began.

 

[16:35]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Nods "Therapy for sure does that"

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So what you said was really spot on and correlates in several ways to other ways to do this.

 

[16:35] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement with Vanni.

 

[16:35] Seli (Seliara Elton): My therapist is great, but is also going to be able to put a second garage on her yacht when we're done with me.

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:35] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Heh, ain't that true.

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You can go boating with her lol

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent thanks Kahlan!

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Any further questions or comments on Domination?  we still have a bit of time.

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please go ahead Wynter!

 

[16:36] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): One a bit more specific to SL, but important to consider...

 

[16:38] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I know so very often, we talk in the context of RL, especially here at Xaara. And I love that. But I also think it's important to remember that relationships can be impactful here. So in regards to that, the idea of "with great power, comes great responsibility" can end up on both ends. You're going to run into people from all walks.. one of the beauties, but sometimes one of the potential horrors of SL. You miss a lot of context here that you won't get in RL. (cont)

 

[16:39] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): So regardless of what side you end up on, always be sure to take your time. The kinky will be there, and someone once wisely said, "If they're great for you today, it should stand true that their great for you a month from now."#

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed!

 

[16:39] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): yeeeesss!

 

[16:39] Cyan (Cyan08 Resident):   nods in agreement

 

[16:40]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Very true

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In my RL community we have maybe 400 members but only half that are very active and at any party between 20-50 people show up...so that means word gets out fast if a person is "freaky" and they'll be known and if they keep it up, removed

 

[16:41] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods.

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Here in an online, open community it's not anywhere near as easy to 'vet' people

 

[16:41] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Agreed

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So yes...slow and deliberate is usually the best way to go.

 

[16:41] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):   nods

 

[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Yay classes on Red FLags :)

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *cough as that seems to be the one he teaches most*

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes it's why we have it in both the Angel and the M/M programs

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and suggest *everyone* take it

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Autumn you will have the last comment for the day!

 

[16:42]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): In addition to what Wynter said about the dynamic when it comes to SL, I find it means I need to be even more open and honest, and need the other person to be the same.  I am also Nuerodivergent, so the more clear things are made for me, the more I can be my true self.  Without second guessing or reading into everything.  Done

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed!

 

[16:42] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods a lot.

 

[16:42] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins, nodding

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If people are into mindfucking....that has to be NEGOTIATED and consensual...and checked in on

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Doing that outside of clear bounds is abuse

 

[16:43]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): nods in agreement

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I 100% agree Autumn

 

[16:43] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): nods agreement

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some Dom  thinking they can come here and mindfuck our submissives ain't gonna last long

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): minus consent of course

 

[16:44] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): grins

 

[16:44] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Its good to be a part of a community again that holds these standards true.  We're glad to be here.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I've had some great mindfuck scenes....at a Femdom party at the club three of us sat on a couch and had this boy on his knees unable to speak...and he loved it *giggles*

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   files my nails all Film Noir like

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We are glad you are here to Brian and Autumn!

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The more good people the better.

 

[16:46] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): Thank you.

 

[16:46]  Aυţυмη нαuι (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Thank you, happy to be here

 

[16:46] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement.

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok friends, thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts and wisdome.

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *wisdom...not wis-domme.

 

[16:46] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Hehe

 

[16:46] вяıαη нαuι (Brian Haul): chuckles

 

[16:46] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Thank you Vanni- always so insightful and nurturing, thanks for all the great comments, have a great day Xaara- helps stunning Azalea off my lap and off to wander in Xaara

 

[16:47] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Yes, thanks to everyone for the wonderful input.

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And we'll be back in two weeks.....Johan will be spinning next Sunday at 8am with "Easy Like Sunday Morning"

 

[16:47] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): Thanks Vanni and A/all contributors

"H is for Humiliation" -- May 18, 2025

 [15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): alrighty let's get the humiliation car on the road

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:41]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!

 

[15:41]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Our moderator for this session will be Vanessa Cannoli

 

[15:41]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): The discussion will be run in a C - Comment, Q - Question format.

 

[15:41]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Just type a C or a Q in local to be added to the speaker list.

 

[15:41]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): To withdraw your comment type an R

 

[15:41]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): If you'd like to enter your words anonymously, just touch this box.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Over the past few weeks we have been going over the BDSM acronym

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we finished B/D and went into S/M.  The last two weeks we have talked about general ideas of Sado-Masochism.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I as usual have some exposition and then we'll go to comments and questions.  As they come up just drop the C or Q in as I ramble.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This week we start more specific kinds of discussions, in this case, Humiliation play.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some people find humiliation puzzling -- why would people *want* to be humiliated?  What kind of kick do they get out of it?  Some find it horribly offensive.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The important thing is ... here at Xaara, as long as things fall in to SSC kinds of activities, then what people do is their biz.  We can not like it, we can say to ourselves "I'd never do that" but we're not going to judge it.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): When we think of "humiliation" we usually think of a bottom or sub being trampled on, their Dom  or Top telling them they are worthless shit, doing Golden or Roman Showers on them.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just because that's a typical Saturday night for me doesn't make me strange, ok?

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[15:45] Angela (MadamA Himmel): grins

 

[15:45] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   smirks.

 

[15:45] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I mean you are strange, but for altogether different reasons *nods sagely*

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But in all honesty, more of us do very subtle forms of humiliation than we think, and people that enjoy this kind of kink are not "strange", they have their kink and are enjoying it with people who share it.  It's all good and yummy!

 

[15:45] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident):   googles 'roman shower'...

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): probably shouldn't ... ;)

 

[15:46] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): ....I wish I hadn't

 

[15:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): tied into a vomitorium?

 

[15:46] Gabrielle Zsun (Gabrielle Zsun): i only get  showers with out curtains for roman shower

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A vomitarium was actually the archway that led in and out of a roman arena actually

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as "vomito" means "to expel, to issue forth"

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but it also has the more....unfortunate idea...

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ahem

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): moving on!

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's use a subtle example here:  how many subs here enjoy to be leashed, and how many of our Dominants enjoy putting an S-Type on a leash?

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   raises my hand for both  being switchy

 

[15:48] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident):   raises hand

 

[15:48] Rune (FatedPickle Resident):   raises hand

 

[15:48] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods and raises both hands.

 

[15:48] Angela (MadamA Himmel): <<<< only in SL

 

[15:48] Jesseca Littlepaws (Jesseca Littlepaws):   raises hand

 

[15:48] SylviaAurelia (SylviaAurelia Resident): sure

 

[15:48] Gabrielle Zsun (Gabrielle Zsun): right Madame Angela

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So most of us enjoy either doing something we do to an animal, or being leashed like a dog or what not...but that's not how we usually *think* of it.

 

[15:49] Angela (MadamA Himmel): its easier all around

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But if we walked around in polite, vanilla society with a person on a leash or on a leash ourselves, we would be stared at, comments would be made and shock would be real.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And the feeling of connection that is made via a leash is also a form of external "look at my sub on my leash, they are mine" or "I belong to my Dom , they have me leashed."

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So we get a kick out of something that is simple in form but meaningful as it's a symbol of power..and it's also putting the person *on* the leash in their place.  It's a symbol of power exchange.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Before we go to comments I want to discuss quickly three kinds of humiliation play.

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The first kind is what termed "Status Humiliation".

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This is some kind of activity where the Bottom/Sub is moved down the hierarchy to be sure they, and everyone around knows, that the target is under the authority and rule of the Top/Dominant.

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Leashing is a perfect but fairly low key example of this.

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Subbies, you know what I mean when a Dominant puts us "where we belong"....

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Even public commands, "do this, kneel in this position, take your clothes off, eat that banana upside down" are all examples of that power exchange done in public.

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It can be done in public orders like "walk two steps behind me" or "kneel at the Pier Bar and say nothing until I order you to do so."

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All those are emblems of the power exchange and to make the S-type feel the power of the Dominant.

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And the thrill that comes with it!

 

[15:54] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *melts*

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): See?

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The second kind of humiliation play is Object Humiliation.  This is when the bottom/sub is turned into some form of object or perhaps an animal.

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Petplay, PonyPlay and the like are examples.

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): They create a "depersonalization" of the S-Type.

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A person can also be turned into an object.

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Making a sub into a footrest is a pretty classic example.

 

[15:56] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Like the inimitable House of Gord

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): At a RL party I went to years ago at a Dom's apartment, he had his girl turned into a lamp.

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She was in her bra and panties with a lampshade on her head and was holding one of those low wattage Ikea lights on a cord

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He gave her a break every ten or so minutes to move around, drink, use the restroom and stretch, and then she was back in the corner being a lamp

 

[15:58] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Whose bright idea was that?

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The third kind of humiliation play is the most dicey one.  Emotional Humiliation.  This is where the Top/Dominant does use some kind of name calling, or humiliating acts, that are *****NEGOTIATED***** with the sub.

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Note the big word there:  Negotiated!!!!!

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): For example, in a scene where I am the bottom, I'm quite happy to be called "Bitch" "whore" or have certain degrading things done to me that have been *NEGOTIATED* beforehand.

 

[15:59] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods.

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): OUT of that, if someone calls me "whore" or bitch where it is not negotiated, they're gonna find out what a half Sicilian, half Brazilian woman does to show her...ire.

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Like the guy at a Flogging Molly concert that grabbed me while really drunk, and I punched him right in the face and he fell into his buddies who laughed at him.

 

[16:00] Hettange Ferryhill (Hettange Ferryhill): Smiles.

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It was satisfying!

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All that said, with negotiation, Emotional Humiliation can be a fun thing for the Dominant and sub with proper care and control.  But NEVER do this minus a lot of negotiation, understanding and checking in.

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And during aftercare talk about it, see how it went and modify the next time, if there is one.

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok that's my discourse on this.

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We now throw it open to the August Assembly...do Y/you enjoy Humiliation play?  Avoid it like the plague?  If Y/you do it, how is it kept SSC?  Have Y/you seen good and/or bad examples of this?

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Miss Wynter when you are ready please!

 

[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Three parter coming up:

 

[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): As you rightly pointed out Vanni, humiliation will show up differently for different people and dynamics. So much of BDSM and D/s can be a highly mental exchange. The feeling of the power exchange, the racing thoughts as a submissive is restrained and waiting for their Dominant's next actions.

 

[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Where it differs for me when it comes to humiliation, is that it is not a manifestation of other actions, but direct mental exchange based upon the interaction of the sub with others and their Dominant. The "what we do" at this point, is more mental than physical, and as such, it can be harder to discern when a limit has been reached. In the past, when I've had a submissive who wanted to be humiliated, I made sure they knew to use their safeword without hesitation. As that trust is built, you can figure out where the line is and dance up next to it, giving a satisfying experience for both parties.

 

[16:04] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Kind of like how you mentioned though, this applies more so towards the emotional humiliation and potentially degradation that may be done as part of it. If you don't know the signs of withdrawal and depression, be sure to look it up and understand it. I can tell when I've gone to far in an SM scene, you can't always tell when you might have gone too far with humiliation unless you know the signs.#

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   gives Miss Wynter a 100% on all three parts and a pretty star on the test paper :P

 

[16:04] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): great comment

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said Miss!

 

[16:04] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   giggles.

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I agree...emotional humiliation is dicey and just as potentially harmful as physical play...but harder to discern *where* it may have gone sideways.

 

[16:05] Angela (MadamA Himmel): <<<< avoid it like the plague :) - I do not consider a stool or a leash humiliation or claiming status, and while verbal "dressing down" when it is needed, it may be viewed as humilation be the recievng person, to me that is not humiliation either, so in essence, Humiliation is not something I engage in

 

[16:06] Angela (MadamA Himmel): *by

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Which is why I suggest not only aftercare but check in later, even days later.

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just to be sure there aren't lingering effects that were not clear right after the scene.

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Of course that becomes less critical as the Dom  and sub get to know each other and where they stand.

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But definitely at first

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All very well said Miss Wynter and spot on, thank You!

 

[16:08] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Welcome :)

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lexis withdrew her question...it was answered in what Miss Wynter said?

 

[16:09] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Kinda, and with what Madame Angela said... I enjoy the 'theatre' of D/s, leash et al... so I don't feel humiliated by it in a D/s context.... so is it 'humiliation play' in that case... I surmised not, it's just 'play'

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I was using it as an example of a very light form of humiliation play that has become "mainstreamed" to the point that we don't even really think of it as humiliating.  But try walking around in polite society like that.

 

[16:10] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): And even the objectification I enjoy isn't 'humiliating'

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lexis, Status and Object Humiliation aren't designed to play with one's emotions.  They are designed to either reduce one in status and/or depersonalize the sub.

 

[16:12] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): good distinction

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If anything they'll provoke a very positive emotion as the sub is turned into a dog or a lamp or whatever.

 

[16:12] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Exactly!

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And emotional humiliation done *right* can be very positive, but done wrong can be very very dangerous.

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As the guy at the concert found out when he went for the titty grab.

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh on the way out of the concert the security guard came up to me and said "nice shot on that guy!"

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): NOT what he would have done had one guy punched another lolol

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyway don't think of humiliation in this context as 'making the sub feel worthless'...if it's doing that, it's abuse.

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (if not corrected at the very least)

 

[16:15] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): in short, the question I was going to ask has been answered

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This is a topic worth expanding on!

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks!

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Sir Johan please!

 

[16:15] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): So originally I was mainly into light sexy time verbal humiliation.

 

[16:15] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident):  it;  it may not be 'humiliating' the manner in which we consider it, but it causes SOME form of enjoyment, perhaps in the 'taboo' of not being the norm. #done

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So is the boot camp scene in "Full Metal Jacket" solid viewing for this, Sir? ;)

 

[16:17] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement.

 

[16:17] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): oooo, 'taboo', good word, yes, that is certainly an aspect

 

[16:17] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): 100% but I don't advocate anymore for the line regarding "Only two things come from Texas!"   unless its specifically agreed upon using LGBTQIA slurs in a good way

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Or the line about "fried chicken and watermelon...."

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but that's a great way to look at it Sir...what they do in military boot camp isn't to make the trainees really feel like s**t...it's to force them into conformity so they're working together in combat, god forbid it were to happen.

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and humiliation play is thrilling but it's not designed to really make the sub feel like s**t either...it's to create a kinky "thing" that makes them happy.

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Great analogy!

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You Sir!

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Madam Angela please.

 

[16:21] Angela (MadamA Himmel): thank you Vanessa

 

[16:21] Angela (MadamA Himmel): Sorry, I forgot to put in my C earlier and just typed …. I avoid humiliation like the plague :) - I do not consider someone being a stool or being leashed humiliation, nor claiming status humiliation, and while a verbal "dressing down", when it is needed, may be viewed as humiliation by the receiving person, to me that is not humiliation either, its a corrective measure … a consequence .... so in essence, humiliation is not something I engage in. In SL a leash / collar / being a stool / helps the visual, a visual that is not needed in 1st life in a lot of cases … it makes interaction easier in SL, something that is not needed in my 1st life. Some would say that a "consequence" (a dressing down / being pulled up short verbally) could be viewed as emotional humiliation, but not in my case, its just a result, correction, not humiliation. To Johan :) …. If someone enjoyed it and is bratty to archive such with me, they would be dismissed as "not compatible with me" … smiles # (done)

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oooo we will get to Brats in a few weeks, Madam!

 

[16:22] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Oooh please definitely let me know when that is so I can plan for it. Brat play is something I"m super unfamiliar with but learning for my syllabus

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But yes, a sub that is bratty can be a nightmare to a Dom that isn't prepared for what They're getting into lol

 

[16:23] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *hides behind Master's chair*

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But just to be clear again Madam, when we talk about Status and Object Humiliation, it's about subordination rather than emotion.  The girl turned into a lamp at that party was "humiliated" by being a lamp, but that was the kink, she found it thrilling to be there like that.

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So Dominants and subs that find fun ways to play like that are sharing kinks.

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But...it's not what everyone is into and that's 100% fine!

 

[16:24] Angela (MadamA Himmel): smiles, there is an element of difference culturally as well here, so I certainly understand your point

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Your point is valid and well taken, Madam!

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much for sharing that! ♥

 

[16:25] Angela (MadamA Himmel): smiles

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Miss Sylvia You are up please!

 

[16:25] SylviaAurelia (SylviaAurelia Resident): It seems to me that all humiliation play must be emotional, since humiliation is an emotion. And if the person isn't feeling humiliated by the action we shouldn't call it humiliation play. And since different people will find different things humiliating at best we can make a list of things that might be used in humiliation play, but which may well for some people not actually be humiliating. Eg. I can imagine two people being lamp posts, and one really enjoys it and doesn't feel at all humiliated, and another doing the exact same thing might find it mortifying. And we need to make sure we know which actions which people really find humiliating so we know how much support they are going to need.

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I suppose one could call those "subordination play" ... but as there is a humilating factor involved to some level, that's what they have traditionally been called.

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *Forcing* a person to be a lamp against their will would be abuse, not play.  A person at a party in their undies being a lamp might make them feel "strange" and looked at....but if they *want* it, they're getting a kick from it and it's positive.

 

[16:29] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): I think i agree with you Miss Sylvia, I think the fact it's 'supposed' to be humiliating in 'normal' society is a factor, as Sir Johan said, there is a taboo factor

 

[16:29] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): So that was a thought I had prior to reading/studying it as well.  The way they explained it in the book is that sometimes you get that little 'buzz' from the slight 'naughty' that comes from being made to be a stool, to worship a boot, to being called names, etc.    Maybe that 'Emotional Play' is a better word for it, but its seeking to 'tingle' either the slightly humilating feeling of being objectified, ignored, or even HEAVILY humiliated as in watersports/scat play.  #done

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Everyone has their kink!

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Vanillas seeing a regular old "play party" where people are getting enjoyment from flogging, whipping and beating on others will say "WTF is the matter with you people, are you nuts?"

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): No, we get off by this stuff!  Whoo hoo!

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Same with various forms of humiliation play.  "Who can get off being a lamp?  How the hell can you enjoy looking and acting like a dog?"  If I'm into it, then turn me on and *bark bark!*

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Miss Sylvia and Sir Johan!  ALL views on this are valid and welcome!

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Miss Xoralyn please.

 

[16:34] Xoralyn (Xoralyn Resident): Thank you, Vanessa. I am not into some sorts of humiliation. Humiliation can easily become abuse and for that reason I am very careful. I agree that humiliation, to me is NOT about making the sub feel worthless. I enjoy the mental twisting of words and playful mind humiliation. I do ensure it is playful and if I sense any form of defeat or lowering of the sub’s energy, I ask about it and more importantly ensure open communication during check-in or aftercare.

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes!!!

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100%

 

[16:35] Angela (MadamA Himmel): mayhem humiliation, fun, laughter, blushes, I love it ... nods and smiles at Xoralyn

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Much like a paddling must be done carefully physically, so must humiliation play be done very carefully to avoid emotional harm

 

[16:36] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I'd argue even more so, as there is no one technique fits all.

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I think some of the misunderstanding about humiliation play that many have is that we equate the word to abusive behavior.  But in the BDSM context done right, it's kink sharing, not abuse.

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And 100% Miss Wynter.

 

[16:37] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): 'Kink sharing', I like that phrase

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Miss Xoralyn!

 

[16:38] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Very much so.. Sometimes that emotional, even the low, is used because the sub may want/need a cathartic release and tears.  Then once they cry it out and get the 'feelings of worthless' out of their system (Perhaps they were used to hearing it growing up and now they need to hear it in a 'safe' environment;   Afterwards you build them back up.

 

[16:38] Xoralyn (Xoralyn Resident): :)

 

[16:38] Angela (MadamA Himmel): nods, compatibility is key , I agree

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, Sir!!!!

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said!

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You!

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Rune please!

 

[16:38] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): Mine is perhaps a comment and question both.

 

[16:38] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): I have been involved in various forms of humiliation play: from light status leashing, to middle of the line stuff, to all out degrading play that I wouldn't want to really try again unless my life depended on it. What I find interesting is that prior to coming to this I wouldn't have defined most of my play as "humiliation" but I realize now what I was engaging in was a shared humiliation kink that many people have. It's the thrill that defines it, not necessarily an "embarrassment?" Or maybe its both? In any case, in polite RL company it would definitely cause me more "humiliation" than in SL where I am able to sit behind my computer and have some degree of .... control that is a bit more defined I think. And I think that is something that matters also and gives me pause to think about. #

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let me give a RL example

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A few years ago a fellow brought a girl to our club that was scared to death of being complimented (of all things).  She was very very very self-concious.  But she agreed to come and do this scene with him (and I talked to her and let me assure you this was 100% consensual on her part)

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He had her strip naked, put her on this collar and chain, and then led her around.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and had asked us to compliment her

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And we all said how beautiful she was (and she was!)

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now that was obviously a form of "humiliation" as she was naked on a chain and collar.

 

[16:41] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): Yeah I would die inside a little doing that lol

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But by the end of the night she felt very happy, glowing and more self-confident.

 

[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): <3

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So it was a build up, NOT a degrading of her self-esteem.

 

[16:42] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): smiles

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Follow up...she turned into a total BDSM slut in a couple months LOL

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so the 'treatment' worked!  *giggles*

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent points Rune, thanks! ♥

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back to Miss Wynter please

 

[16:43] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Actually, as an addendum to what you said earlier Vanni, kink sharing is a wonderful term. While we have a shortage of male submissives here at Xaara, if you end up at a Femdom sim, many of the submissives may end up in some form of chastity. Considering how many cultures consider the phallus and phallic symbology a status symbol, having it caged and unable to release in typical ways can be a very humiliating circumstance. But in any healthy dynamic, it will always happen in the space of consent. But as they enjoy the humiliation, I equally get off on the control I have over them. Just an example to add to the ideas of humiliation not strictly being abusive.#

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right Miss!

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It is interesting how many male subs at Femdoms are really craving forms of humiliation at the hands of women (not all, but many!)  I think it's all about power play and gender roles.

 

[16:44] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods, "Definitely so."

 

[16:44] Xoralyn (Xoralyn Resident): Agreed, Wynter.

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But it must be done carefully as You say!

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (gotta speed up a bit to get all the comments)

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You, Miss!

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back to Miss Sylvia, please!

 

[16:45] Angela (MadamA Himmel): yes, it happens a lot and I run the other way :)

 

[16:45] SylviaAurelia (SylviaAurelia Resident): One problem I find with humiliation play, such as being stripped naked, is that unless I am feeling the burning heat of embarrassment and the pounding of my heart, it's not really working. But if someone has seen me naked a dozen times before, then it doesn't really effect me the same any more. #

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   giggles

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Everyone gets different reactions as You say, Miss.  I mean I've been butt naked around Xaara plenty of times.  It has very little effect on me to be running around naked here.

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now in First Life...rather different lol

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Even though at our club there is ZERO body shaming.

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone does that, they're out...but we've never had an issue in my experience.

 

[16:47] Angela (MadamA Himmel): humiliation would be to be fully dressed at Xaara Vanessa ? winks

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   giggles

 

[16:47] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Oddly... I'm actually a little self-conscious of my avi, so being naked in SL -does- have an effect on me

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): No...NOT CLOTHES!!

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sure Lexis...everyone is different!

 

[16:48] Angela (MadamA Himmel): nods at Lexis

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And we all must respect those choices.

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Miss Sylvia!

 

[16:48] Angela (MadamA Himmel): that can have an affect,, I agree with Lexis

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to the lovely Kahlan please!

 

[16:48] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): Setting and circumstances, time and place... all of these are factors in this play. Something done in the privacy of your home and family can be just fine. Naked at home while Beau calls me his slut and anything else he can think of. Though Different set of circumstances: sending me off to be on the fountain but using the same words 'time to pose, my slut' .... I would flat out die. There would be no fun buzz like i got at home. It would send me into spirals questioning things I thought were facts and have me shut down while I tried to process.    Switch it again, exact same thing but I knew he was going to say it cause he wanted to get a reaction out of someone else. Well that turns into another type of game.     So making sure that everyone is on the same page and understands the parameters is crucial. #

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100%

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   gives Kahlan a huge star on her paper too

 

[16:49] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   nods in agreement.

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All of that is spot on Kahlan.

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Context is critical.

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Very well said!

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go back to Sir Johan for what is likely the last comment of the day please.

 

[16:50] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): It can also be used to de-sensitize as well. I was involved with a submissive who due to emotional/verbal abuse hated the word slut. H A T E D.

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   nods big time

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Being called a 'good slut' in the proper context....mmmmmmmmfffff.....*dreamy look*

 

[16:51] Angela (MadamA Himmel): I can see that Johan

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Call me a good slut with NO proper context, knuckle sandwich time.

 

[16:52] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   smirks memorably.

 

[16:52] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): #amen, lol

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So yes, time and place matter big time.

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You Sir!

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And thank Y/you all very much for this intelligent conversation on this rather controversial topic!

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What we do is learn from each other and grow.

 

[16:53] Angela (MadamA Himmel): it was a delight Vanessa

 

[16:53] Tom (Zirsnveblis Resident): Thank you for the discussion Vanessa

 

[16:54] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Thank you as always for the wonderful discussions Vanni :)

 

[16:54] Hettange Ferryhill (Hettange Ferryhill): Excellent discussion, Vanni.

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please remember Xaara in Y/your giving plans...tip jar is on the bar.

 

[16:54] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): Thank you so much, Vanni :)

 

[16:54] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): And to everyone else as well for your wonderful input!

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back in two weeks with another kinky topic!