"Bondage": February 21, 2021

 [08:10] Vanni Cannoli: Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: Before I open the discussion, let me post the usual header:  Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: We generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.

[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: While we are a chatty group, lots of extra chat makes it "noisy," so if we can please keep that to a minimum, it would be very appreciated, thank Y/you!

[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: The blog for this munch is:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/   It holds the archive for our munches here starting Jan 3, 2021.

[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: I also have a bit of exposition before I start taking comments or questions, but please feel free to put Y/yours in anytime

[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: So a year or so ago we went over the three parts of the BDSM acronym

[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: Today we start part one, "Bondage/Discipline"

[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: We will probably spend two to three weeks going over that, then move to the next.

[08:13] Vanni Cannoli: So today we start with Bondage.

[08:13] Vanni Cannoli: To quote Wikipedia, which knows all, Bondage "is the practice of consensually tying, binding, or restraining a partner for erotic, aesthetic, or somatosensory stimulation. A partner may be physically restrained in a variety of ways, including the use of rope, cuffs, bondage tape, or self-adhering bandage."

[08:14] RB Quinn: Duct tape????

[08:14] Vanni Cannoli waits for the grins, hand-wringing, and happy sighs to diminish

[08:14] Whyiman: cable ties

[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: Oh yes, Sir. Bondage Tape, I have two rolls of pink tape in my toybag

[08:14] Ɗʀᴀᴄʜᴇɴᴀ: somatic is the body in case anyone was wondering

[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: Now, bondage is often an act in and of itself, meaning that the people involved will do that as a scene in itself

[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: At my First Life club, there are many scenes where a person is tied in some way, such as suspension, and that's the scene, and the act in and of itself puts the bottom into subspace

[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: We have some people that are into mumification

[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: getting wrapped in plastic wrap except for their mouth

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: and sometimes that is mixed with suspension

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: we have a nice winch with a bar for exactly that

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: So the bondage in and of itself might be the goal of the scene

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: or it might quite obviously be mixed with some S/M activities

[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: such as typing and spanking, or locking a person on an X Frame and doing "horrid" things to them

[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: In fact, this is how a lot of people get involved with the scene in the beginning -- bedroom games that involve getting tied up and then sex happening

[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: Then it just moves from there to bigger and even better sins

[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: But you gotta sin to get saved, so sin boldly!

[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: and of course, there is a lot of safety involved with this, which we will discuss toward the end

[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: But first I'd like to ask our August assembly two questions:  1) Do you do this (First or Second Life)?  2) What joy do you get from it, as the Top or the Bottom in that particular scene?

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: oh and I guess #1 also includes, "If so, what techniques do you enjoy"

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: So question two is more philosophical than practical

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: #1 is technique and #2 is "why, what gets Y/your motor going"

[08:22] Vanni Cannoli: As Top or Bottom

[08:22] Vanni Cannoli: We'll start with Sir Ballard, please go ahead when ready, Sir!

[08:23] Ballard nods and leans  in to talk.  "Talk about sin.  Well all this talk about bondage is clearly some weird kinky stuff, and we all know that is wrong!  I would never do such a thing.  When a woman asked me to get kinky with her once, I tied her up, whipped her and played with her body..."  voice trails off.  "Gagged her."  nods and starts to get flushed.  "I had to do that to her daily, just to make my point."  He smiles.  "All seriousness aside, bondage is foreplay to me.  It starts things, and gets my motor running.  Bondage has only rarely been the main thing itself, but a scene is rarely complete without it."

I like posts, and cranes, yard stakes and handcuffs.

Shibari is an area of study for me, but not a focus of my play.

It almost always ends  in sex.  #

[08:24] Vanni Cannoli: Well said, Sir!  And for a lot of folks in the scene, Bondage is part but not all.

[08:25] Ḱιrιn StαrۣۣۜLιght Serevι: Took the words right out of my mouth there, Well said Ballard.

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: I did watch a rather interesting rope scene done at the club -- the Top tied his girl to a cage with a rope on her *tongue*...she then had to stand on tiptoe or the rope would pull on her tongue

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: that was the whole scene

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: he kept her there until she looked at him and blinked her eyes five times, then he released her, tongue first

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: it was pretty interesting, and she was a puddle

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: lol

[08:26] Ballard: Nice

[08:26] Vanni Cannoli: went about ten minutes

[08:26] Vanni Cannoli: But yes, I get how You see it as a piece of the puzzle Sir, a lot do!

[08:26] Vanni Cannoli: Thank You for Your comment!

[08:27] Vanni Cannoli: Sir RB, your comment please!

[08:27] RB Quinn: I have enjoyed kinbaku shibari since I first heard about it.  Over the past year I have gotten more into the process of tying, the interaction with the one being bound and the closeness it can engender, rather than just the static beauty of the final pose.  Of course, playing with the bindee is still a great joy *smiles warmly to his lanky,lovely lass and folds her tightly in his arms* #

[08:28] Vanni Cannoli: I've never actually done shibari, but watched it, and I agree Sir, the art and the intimacy of it is really amazing

[08:28] Alessandra Doria is offline.

[08:28] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell: Nods to Sir RB

[08:29] Vanni Cannoli: So I am glad You and Your charges enjoy that, Sir!

[08:29] Vanni Cannoli: We goto Miss Drachena with a question.  Please go ahead, Miss.

[08:30] Ɗʀᴀᴄʜᴇɴᴀ: This is question for the subs.  If, when being bound, you wonder, for even a second, if you fully trust the person binding you, to what degree does it ruin the experience?  I've always been curious about and I like to hear the different opinions.

[08:32] Becky Summerland: its a question of building prior trust... I adore being tied up.... I have an amazing roper in FL, that I miss dearly because of covid, but we met for many coffees and increased the intensity of our visits before I fully let him tie me up and make me completly helpless, by then, I had no doubt I was safe... or...

[08:32] Taree: One reason I left Gor is because you get tied up a lot, then nothing happens.  Very frustrating!  In SL the danger is a big part of the appeal.

[08:32] Becky Summerland: as I told myself the first time I realized I was completly at his mercy... the worse that can happen is I will die, so enjoy...

[08:32] Candice Svenska: lol

[08:32] Becky Summerland: hence, that question is never an issue when the steps are respected

[08:33] Becky Summerland: #

[08:33] Ɗʀᴀᴄʜᴇɴᴀ: Thank you Becky.

[08:33] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα: here or rl, id not put myself in that situation unless I truly trusted the one doing the binding. for if there was even a hint of doubt, not only would it not be enjoyable.. it coudl also result in something bad as well #

[08:35] Vanni Cannoli: I can say having been bound a few times at the club *cough*...for science of course...that there is a bit of a mental trick.  On one hand, one knows that something bad could indeed happen -- you are at the mercy of another person.  On the other hand, the mind also knows that the chances of that are remote, so one can delve into the scene.  But there is always that "watchful eye" in the back of the head going.

[08:35] Vanni Cannoli: but if subspace hits, all bets are off

[08:36] Candice Svenska: can say with a smile have always had complete trust, never once even thought of using my safe word..smiles back over my shoulder

[08:36] Ballard pets her hair

[08:36] Ɗʀᴀᴄʜᴇɴᴀ: Thanks everyone.

[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: Thank You Miss, that was a really good question.

[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: Brianne, you are up please!

[08:37] Brianne: I love all techniques, probably, but I think but ropes and tape rise to the top of my list.  I like predicament bondage, or ridiculous amounts of it.  Mummification and tight cages.  Or just simple cuffs for a long while (especially elbow cuffs alone).  I've only done the less complex stuff in RL.  But maybe wishes do come true...

[08:37] Brianne: Bondage works in RL and SL differently but it always works.  I melt at the loss of control, the dependence, and the hint of danger.  It can also be extreme comforting to be bundled up and helpless in the hands of someone that will protect me.  And when I see someone get pleasure from capturing me and toying with me, I feel so happy and purposeful!  I feel like the work of an artist., my body molded my ropes or devices, my speech and actions limited, turned into something for display.  The power exchange has so many possibilities.  Bondage and sensuality go hand in hand. #

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: As I think it captures the idea of the Bottom's reaction so perfectly

[08:39] Brianne: I'm... I'm 'into' bondage, I guess.

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: Well aren't you just the little pervert

[08:39] Brianne: *laughs*

[08:39] Brianne: YAAS!

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: Nice to meet you!

[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: I had to go to "Perversion Anonymous"

[08:40] Brianne winks to fellow clubmember Vanni

[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: "My name is Vanni, and I'm a pervert."

[08:40] Brianne: "It's been 12 months since I did anything vanilla.!

[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: Oh you get your handcuff cake for one year of avoiding vanilla!

[08:41] Brianne: *laughs*

[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: and remember, call your sponsor anytime to come tie you up if you feel like you're gonna go vanilla

[08:41] Brianne: check!

[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: omg this is great idea

[08:42] Vanni Cannoli: anyway!  So well said Brianne!

[08:42] Vanni Cannoli: Let's move to Cryolynn please!

[08:42] Cryolynn Dulce: I've done light bondage in 1st and much heavier here, what I love about it is being so completely helpless towards someone I trust and love. I get enjoyment out of that feeling that they could do whatever they want and knowing they won't abuse that.

[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: Nicely said!

[08:45] Vanni Cannoli: Excellent!  Great comments today

[08:45] Vanni Cannoli: Sir Ballard has another comment, go ahead please Sir.

[08:45] Ballard: As you mention trust, and subspace, let me add this.  I and I alone have to be responsible for the safety of my bindee.  I need to feel that she is safe, has good circulation, and will not suffer lasting harm from my efforts.  Once a person gets into altered head states, that is even more important, as they often have a diminished capacity to express concerns.  Even in SL, where the physical risk is not existent, I still will ask, and check.  This becomes much more important if the sub is doing any mirroring.  I always want to know if they are.  All of this adds up to expressing your desire to respect the safety of your partner, and this builds trust.  Tops need to keep that in mind.

#

[08:46] Vanni Cannoli cheers and will go bake Master Ballard his favorite cake after this

[08:46] Brianne: Extremely wise, Sir Ballard.

[08:47] Ballard eyes Vanni, imagining her trying to cook while wearing hand cuffs.

[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: Yes, everything You mentioned Sir, is exactly what is important about any bondage scene

[08:47] Candice Svenska: wonders if apron worn?

[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: Well Maggie Gyllenhaal was able to do coffee serves in "Secretary" while wearing an arm binder, so I suppose it's possible

[08:52] Vanni Cannoli: Let's go to Aspen please

[08:53] Aspen Diamond: Thank you Vanni,

When I started out in Real was being tied up on a four poster bed spread eagle. Then it went to being leashed tied to with enough leash to do the house work. Then I knew when he got home I would be tied to the X-cross to be flogged. Being tied does put me in my mind set of being a sub and have complete trust. I have had rope corsets on and being hobble like a horse. It is a freedom to be getting out of my head and my mind on my Master to meet his needs and do it for him. It is complete trust with that Master who is tying you up. He has all of the tools for getting you out of it if you do panic or needing to safe word.

I have always had rope on me which I alway prefer. It has been over 14 years for me not being tied in Real. I do love bondage too.

When I left Roissy there was a Master there and he knew what I needed at the time. I had known him at Roissy so I knew I could really trust him. Like Master Ballard is safety first and most. I was very glad that this Master could take me to

[08:53] Aspen Diamond:  complete subspace and out of my head. I think that was one mindset that started me on this adventure path here at Xaara. Bondage does do something to you  and I do like the feeling of safety with a Master who I can turn over all of my control expect for safewords. to him.That is what makes a good Roper is the Master is always watching and reading the sub.

[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: You realize, Aspen, you just rattled off every bondage bunny's Christmas List?

[08:55] Aspen Diamond: Know wonder why Rope bunnies falls for their Masters.

[08:55] HB's Phoenix: mmmm rope

[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: That's really cool....I'm sorry you haven't had First Life experience for a while, but at least you get it here

[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: And you definitely know the joys of it

[08:56] Aspen Diamond: Thank you

[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: You mention leashing, and sometimes it's easy to forget that a "simple" leash can be such a turn on, First or Second Life, that feeling of being owned and controlled

[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: it is a form of bondage, but a subtle one

[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: I'm sure that no one here likes leashes, right?  *grinning*

[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: Or does it give you a new "leash" on life?

[08:59] Vanni Cannoli: Miss Drachena again, please!

[08:59] Ɗʀᴀᴄʜᴇɴᴀ: For me, bondage and sex are completely different things, and one does not necessitate the other.  They may be combined, but the bondage is the act itself.  I enjoy the control, of course, but also get pleasure from knowing that the bindee fully trusts me and derives pleasure from it.  The acknowledgment of that trust and control builds the intimacy of the relationship.  That intimacy enhances any sexual act that might come after, even though I may not do anything sexual, because denial is also an enjoyable form of control for me. #

[09:00] Brianne: omg, you're fantastic!

[09:00] Vanni Cannoli grins at Miss Drachena

[09:01] Vanni Cannoli: You have the technique down quite well, Miss!

[09:01] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell looks around at the puddles that used to be submissives

[09:01] Brianne: *laughs*

[09:01] Brianne: I think Miss Drachena said what every sub wants to hear from their Dominant.

[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: I would like to ask the Dominants in the room a question please, and You can just answer, no "C" required -- is it the control You get over the bottom/sub in bondage that is the real turn on, or the look of it, or both combined?

[09:03] Ballard: It is mostly the control, and the willing submission to the control.

[09:03] Ɗʀᴀᴄʜᴇɴᴀ: There is definitely an aesthetic to the bondage so I would have to say both.

[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: I would say, as I tend to top a lot in First LIfe, it's really the look of it for me, although I know it does more for the bottom.  I just like being obeyed when I top.  Like I'll put the bottom up against a frame and say "you move your arms until I say so, we stop."  and I do, which just gives me more control bwahahahaahahaaha

[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: but it does look nice to see a bottom cuffed...raaaawr

[09:06] Vanni Cannoli: *if you move your arms until I say so

[09:06] Vanni Cannoli: Go ahead Aspen

[09:06] Becky Summerland: I live the same in pony play Vanni, an obedient pony is an amazing gift and reward for the time invested

[09:06] Becky Summerland: I live the same in pony play Vanni, an obedient pony is an amazing gift and reward for the time invested

[09:07] Aspen Diamond: Gigging at Vanni so you are a control top.

[09:07] Aspen Diamond: I want to add that it is the control that I would be giving to the Dom/Domaa the trust I would have if they were doing knives on me also. It is that same feeling as a sub you get.

[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: I am NOT pantyhose, thank you! ;)

[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: although tying up a girl with her pantyhose is actually quite fun

[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: um

[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: for science

[09:07] Brianne: ba-dum bump, Vanni

[09:07] Aspen Diamond: Could not help myself Vanni I love you

[09:07] Ḱιrιn StαrۣۣۜLιght Serevι: c

[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: Knife play is one of the ultimate acts of trust, Aspen

[09:08] Aspen Diamond: done

[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: it's certainly not for everyone

[09:08] Ḱιrιn StαrۣۣۜLιght Serevι: For me it is a huge turn on, however that also has to do with the chemistry and how the sub is reacting in the moment. Watching that as I manipulate the situation is a great joy for both the Master and the Sub.

[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: Yes, Sir :)

[09:08] Brianne nods nods

[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: By the way, just to be clear, knife play does not equal blood play

[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: in knife play there is some scraping but NO cutting, if a cut happens, the scene stops immediately and the cut is tended

[09:09] Candice Svenska: absolutely

[09:09] Aspen Diamond: No it does not Vanni mean blood play

[09:10] Vanni Cannoli: Although I'll tell a funny story to close

[09:10] Vanni Cannoli: A well known, long time domme in my first life community LOVES both knife play and mindfucking

[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: so in a scene, she blindfolded the bottom and starting doing knifeplay and scraped her skin with the knife

[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: then poured some warmed, red tinted honey on the scrape and said "whooops"

[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: so the sub takes off the blindfold and went into a short panic as Miss D licked it off

[09:12] Aspen Diamond: OMG wonderfull Vanni Giggling

[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: to be clear, they *both* were laughing in that scene

[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: once the intiial shock came off

[09:13] Candice Svenska: hahaha!

[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: she wouldn't have done that with anyone she didn't know and hadn't played with before

[09:13] Brianne: days later

[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: Give Miss D a chance to mindfuck you...she will.

[09:14] Vanni Cannoli: Any other comments or questions on Bondage?

[09:15] Vanni Cannoli: We are back next week to go over Discipline, and our favorite dichotomy...Punishment vs Funishment!