[08:09] Vanni Cannoli: Ok lettuce go ahead and get started
with a discussion that can't be beet.
[08:09] Brianne: ♫ rimshot ♫
[08:09] Brianne tries to save Vanni
[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: Brianne and I are quite a pear.
[08:10] Brianne: BAH!
[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: but I digress
[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: Good morning and welcome to Koffee
Klatch!
[08:10] RB Quinn: STOP STOP!
[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: Before I open the discussion, let me
post the usual header: Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R
format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q"
if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and
"R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q. If a person has a
question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @
[name]" Puns may be given freely.
[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: We generally will promote questions
directed at a person's comment to the top.
[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: While we are a chatty group, lots of
extra chat makes it "noisy," so if we can please keep that to a
minimum, it would be very appreciated, thank Y/you!
[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: The blog for this munch is:
https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/ It holds the archive for our munches
here starting Jan 3, 2021.
[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: Over the last couple months, we have
been discussing the BDSM acronym
[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: Bondage/Discipline, Sadism and
Masochism, and Dominance/Submission
[08:13] Daelenie McMillan: yes please?
[08:13] Vanni Cannoli: As we've had very specific
discussions on the types, this and the next couple weeks will be devoted to
discussion of *types* of Dominant and Submissive style relationships
[08:13] Vanni Cannoli giggles and gives Dae a noogie
[08:14] Daelenie McMillan: eeps
[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: Today we will look at the
Master/Mistress and Slave relationship, which for the rest of this discussion
we will shorten to "M/s"
[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: the "M" being any gender
[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: Now this is one of those points that
if you ask ten different people what they think is the difference between D/s
and M/s, you're very likely to get ten different answers
[08:16] RB Quinn: .. or more....
[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: A while ago I saw an article on if I
remember correctly Submissive Guide that started "Allow me to give the 7,
384th answer to this question...."
[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: or some odd number
[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: So I'd like to have a quick polling
of the group before we start
[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: How many of our great submissives
here would self-identify as a "slave?" Please raise your hand if you
are comfy doing so.
[08:17] Dijana384 whispers: wb Dee
[08:17] Dijana384 raises hand
[08:18] Iris Seven raises hand
[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: don't give a definition, just if you
would identify as a slave
[08:18] Vic Crowe raises hand
[08:18] Ballard: Let me add one for Rouge.
[08:18] Dee Wolfe
smiles and kneels back down
[08:18] -ღ Sultry Seven ღ- raises hand
[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: Cool! :)
[08:18] Peaches Svenska: before coming to xaara, i would
have said i was a slave
[08:19] Peaches Svenska: when i was in gor
[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: And how many of our fine Dominants
here would self-identify as a "Master or Mistress" in the M/s style
of dominance? If You don't mind self-identifying
[08:19] Sir Jason Oi™: I do
[08:19] Abraham: i do
[08:19] Ballard: I have my
moments
[08:19] Daelenie McMillan hesitantly raises her hand
[08:19] Daelenie McMillan: Sorry, was late slow typing
[08:19] Maverick Broadfoot shakes my head
[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: No worries love :P
[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: ok Thank Y/you all. So we seem split
in the room
[08:20] RB Quinn declines to answer in binary fashion
[08:20] Vanni Cannoli grins
[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: An important aspect of this of course
is "self-identify"
[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: A person may identify as a M/s Master
or Mistress or slave and others will say "Oh, that's not how I do
it!"
[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: Which is fine, each relationship and
person is unique
[08:22] Vanni Cannoli: There are people who may *look* to
others as a Master, Mistress or slave in the M/s way of relationship and would
never self-identify as such either.
[08:22] Vanni Cannoli: so this, like a fine Impressionistic
painting, is a matter of perspective.
[08:22] Vanni Cannoli loves Monet btw, but he's not my
Master...
[08:23] Brianne: but he has master-pieces.
[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: So let's open the floor to
comments...what do Y/you think is the differentiation between the D/s and M/s
styles? And again, this is perspective and opinion. We'll be nice to one
another :)
[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: ♫ rimshot ♫
[08:23] Brianne: *laughs*
[08:24] Candice Svenska: lol
[08:24] Vanni Cannoli: Try the fish!
[08:24] Vanni Cannoli: Ok, Master Ballard, You get to start
the discussion!
[08:24] Vanni Cannoli: ciao, CC!
[08:25] Daelenie McMillan: hugs CC have fun!
[08:25] Vic Crowe: c
[08:26] Ballard: I have never really been fond of this sort
of sub labeling (no pun intended) of the relationships. Yes, slave is a thing. but in an established, longterm relationship, it is up to each
family to build the relationships in a way that works for us, for each
member. Placing a label on one as a slave, another as wife,
submissive or girlfriend is fraught with peril.
The perils being hurt feeling, accidental denigration of one.
Keep in mind that no one person suits every 'type'. So I have a set of rules for each of my girls, they each have a tag in the
house that we have made ourselves comfortable with. While Rouge really is a slave, that means
nothing within our dynamic, it's simply a way to talk about us to outsiders.
[08:27] Brianne nods, very interested in Sirs comment
[08:28] Vanni Cannoli: I think that fits the paradigm I was
just mentioning, Master Ballard, that each person approaches this differently,
and what "sub" or "slave" means is a sort of nebulous
thing.
[08:28] Ballard: All that said I do love to treat as sub
like a slave now and then.
[08:29] Vanni Cannoli: Aha!
[08:29] Vanni Cannoli: So perhaps sub/slaves are roles that
can be taken on dynamically
[08:30] RB Quinn: As can Master/Dominant.....
[08:30] Vanni Cannoli prepares a sociological lecture on
this using Symbolic Interaction and Exchange Theory.
[08:30] Vanni Cannoli: "Please turn to page 36..."
[08:30] Maverick Broadfoot: depending on moods, phases of
the moon
[08:30] Vanni Cannoli: Oh wait...sorry.
[08:30] Vanni Cannoli: Thank You Master Ballard!
[08:31] Vanni Cannoli: Vic, you are up and can share from
the S side!
[08:31] Vic Crowe: This is coming from my rl life as a
slave, to me the only difference is that slaves have total power exchange and
not only submit to the individual but to obedience as well. Service is very important to us. All the negotiations is done upfront and often
takes a lot of time to set the dynamic up and there is no ongoing negoations
after that other than changes the Master wishes in the house. Slaves in rl do
not run around talking in third party lol nor are we mythical like some of the
fictional sims here depict slaves.
Slaves are not just used by anyone, unless that is something they want
and negotiated that way. Other Masters
do not touch another slave without their owners consent or that of the slave if
they are unowend. How Masters talk to
slaves is same as subs, it has nothing to do with how we are treated but rather
the power exchange itself. Just my opinion from my rl experience of a couple
decades lol! Done.
[08:33] Vanni Cannoli: Well what passes in SL for this is
sort of a mutation of a mutation, some of it came from RL Gorean lifestylers
that went to Internet Relay Chat in the 90s, and then came to places like SL.
So some of the "this is what makes a slave" comes from that.
[08:33] Vanni Cannoli: I don't mean this is a downing on
Gor, everyone can have their opinion on it
[08:34] Vanni Cannoli: But the M/s viewpoint here does have
quite a bit of that RL lifestyler stuff from the 90s.
[08:34] Vanni Cannoli: So Vic, may I ask you a follow up?
[08:34] Vic Crowe: of course Vanni : )
[08:35] Vanni Cannoli: Let's imagine that in your First Life
M/s relationship, you had a change in your body that didn't allow you to be hit
with anything harder than a hand any longer (I know, this sounds like hell, but
please bear with me...)
[08:36] Ballard: Tragedy!
[08:36] Vanni Cannoli: As you said you are not allowed any
negotiation, would you have to wait until your Master decided that He would no
longer beat you? You couldn't say "Master, we need to talk about this, I
really need a change?"
[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: (And I do realize a good M type would
deal with the medical needs of the charge here, I'm being hypothetical)
[08:38] Vic Crowe: smiles excellent question! Part of my
life is total transparency to my Master, he would know of my limitations and my
bodys ability. My boundaries are already
known to him pre-dynamic and any changes during dyanic are known and adjsuted
by him. Just because a Master can cross
a boundary, doesnt mean they will.
Additionally a Master does not want to hurt their toy. In RL for example I have arthritis, I have
limitations, my Master knows this and adjusts kink time to accomodate that and
I do not kneel rl as I cant, I do other ways of greeting. I hope that clarifies
[08:38] Vic Crowe: Done : )
[08:38] Vanni Cannoli: Very much, thanks Vic :)
[08:38] Vanni Cannoli: Again, I was just using that as a
thought experiment.
[08:38] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks!
[08:39] Vic Crowe: most welcome : )
[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: Let's go to Sir Jason please
[08:39] Sir Jason Oi™: I think the main differences between
D/s and M/s is Power Exchange vs. Total Power Exchange, the number of times and
how often negotiations can typically happen typically a slave will negotiate at
the beginning of the M/s dynamic and usually that's the end of it while a
submissive can have ongoing negotiations, and submissives choose on a per
command basis to submit and obey where as a slave ordinarily does not.#
[08:39] Trasee Darque has come online
[08:40] Candice Svenska: well said :)
[08:40] Doxie Sixpence raises an eyebrow
[08:40] Imogen Veѕpolι has gone offline
[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: That's a good comment, Sir Jason and
an opinion that seems pretty well held in the community.
[08:40] Maverick Broadfoot nods
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: May I ask You a follow up as well,
please?
[08:41] Sir Jason Oi™: Certainly
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: As I'd like a Dominant's view on
this.
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: I'm a Sociologist, and I'm also very
influenced by Buddhist thought. I recognize that humans are dynamic and change
a lot.
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: I'm not the same person I was a year
ago.
[08:42] Vanni Cannoli: never mind ten years ago
[08:42] Vanni Cannoli: In Your view, how does a M/s
relationship deal with the fact that a slave is going to change at some point
in their lives if they aren't going to be negotiating any further past the
original set up of the M/s relationship?
[08:43] Sir Jason Oi™: Any renegotiations would be done on
an as-needed basis or on the Master's time table. #
[08:44] Vanni Cannoli: Indeed Sir! I have always seen it as
this, if I were Your slave in theory, and I wanted an alteration of our terms,
I would have to *ask* you about it, and You would get the final say of yes or
no. On the other hand, a sub can call a "time out" and some kind of
negotiation is expected to happen.
[08:45] Vanni Cannoli: That's my view, I do not know if that
is concurrent to what O/others think.
[08:45] Vanni Cannoli: Thank You, Sir! :)
[08:45] Vanni Cannoli: I love how we hash out discussion
here
[08:45] Sir Jason Oi™: Of course
[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: Go ahead Peaches.
[08:46] Peaches Svenska: I agree with the first part of what
Sir Jason said about the slave but NOT about the second half, that, if i
understood correctly says that a submissive decides whether or not to obey with
each command given..that is so very NOT true..as long as my limits, that are
pre negotiated so to speak , i would not hesitate..deciding IF i was going to
obey would not even enter my mind, i would simply obey instantly
[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: Ok, thank you for that, Sir Jason do
You have a follow up comment?
[08:47] Sir Jason Oi™: Only that in my original comment I said
"typically" and that may not hold true for everyone.
[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: Ok, thank Y/you both for comments!
[08:49] Vanni Cannoli: Let's go to Iris who has been waiting
patiently
[08:49] Vanni Cannoli: Please go ahead!
[08:49] Iris Seven: ok so I sort of have a lot to say on
this subject and I hope it's not unhelpful LOL...I consider myself a slave. My
submission to my Master is as total as he desires it to be. Yet there is
constant negotiation between us as a matter of course. We don't have porch time
formally because we are so comfortable speaking to one another we don't need to
flag time in that way. We just talk and get on with our lives. As such, many
would call me not a slave. I think some of us tend to glorify certain terms and
assign a hierarchy to them. Thoughts like "my submission is more total
than yours so that makes me higher than you." Nonsense if you ask me. As
for an assertion that a submissive chooses to obey or not on a case by case
basis, I have to assert that is not at all my experience either. I assume I
will obey any command by my Master or any dominant UNLESS I have a specific
valid reason not to, such as a physical limitation or a personal boundary#
[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: Agreed!
[08:51] Vanni Cannoli: I think sometimes humans tend to
forget that "I wouldn't do it that way" is not the same as
"You're wrong for doing it that way."
[08:51] Peaches Svenska: perfectly said Iris..thank you
[08:52] Vanni Cannoli: If you self-id as a slave, and Sir
Zihm says "Iris is my slave," then you're a slave, regardless of what
anyone else thinks about how you "do it."
[08:52] Peaches Svenska: exactly
[08:53] Vanni Cannoli: Well said, Iris, and all comments are
welcome and give us insight :)
[08:53] Vanni Cannoli: Thank you!
[08:53] Iris Seven: :)
[08:53] Vanni Cannoli: We go back to Master Ballard, please.
[08:53] Ballard: This whole issue about negotiations, once
and forever is problematic. And here is
where a slave is no different than any other submissive. A slave wants me to command her. They want to be controlled, taken, used and
enjoyed. They want to be made to serve,
and in doing so they gain great satisfaction.
All of that is just as true for any submissive. So let me ask you all. That said,
in what way is a slave any different from any other submissive? I have my own ideas, but I'd like to hear it before I say it.
[08:54] Ballard: so I do have a follow up statement.
[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: Anyone who wishes may give a comment
minus a "C"
[08:54] Maverick Broadfoot: clairvoyance?
[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: go right ahead and give Y/your
(please short) view on this.
[08:54] Teddy: i think my C to peaches says my answer?
[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: then go ahead Teddy
[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: as well as A/anyone else
[08:55] Teddy: i was thinking maybe its down to perception
of thought.causeeven tho we feel like our actions an reactions are
instaneous.it isnt that we dont make choices.its just that the speed an
efficiency of thought process is so fast that we dont notice them.we dont look
back to analyze how it went from A to B to C.cause of comfort level in what we
did.maybe the feeling of obeying instantlyis like. more to do with comfort in
obeyingo the master/mistress obeying for? maybe less consideration for own
wants is how a slave is different?
[08:56] Ballard: Vanni,May I conclude my thought?
[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: Does anyone else have a
comment/answer to Master Ballard?
[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: I don't see any typing in the bubbles
so I don't think there are other answers?
[08:57] Ballard: To my old style mind, a slave is never restricted. While they may retain consent, and require
negotiations, a slave is eager to sever the community, and live within the
community as an open and available resource to serve. A submissive might be every bit as submissive
as any slave, TPE and all, but monogamous, or in a closed family
situation. If I see a slave tag I will
still ask consent, because I always ask consent, yet assume they are open to
service. But a submissive tag means
generally to be very careful how they are approached, assume nothing. I realize that this definition is at odds
with current conventional wisdom. #
[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: I think that's a very valid way to
look at it, Master Ballard!
[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: Go ahead please, Sir Jason
[09:00] Sir Jason Oi™: Openness or poly isn't a factor in
either submissive or slave. A slave isn't more available to be used by the
community than a submissive would be. #
[09:01] Vanni Cannoli: I *think* Master Ballard may be
referring to Community Slaves here?
[09:01] Ballard: Actually not really. This is my 20th century idea of a slave, as
compared to the newer 21st century idea of any TPE is a slave.
[09:01] Ballard: Things have changed
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: Aha
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: :)
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: Ok thank Y/you all for that!
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: We need to move on to get everyone in
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: Doxie, your comment please
[09:03] Doxie Sixpence: Perhaps i have slave-like tendencies
as i would rarely think to disobey my Master. Once i commit then i have made my
choice to obey. But when i first encountered BDSM Master Lucian asked me
whether i am a slave or a submissive. He had to then tell me how he defined
those two roles before i could answer. I have stayed with submissive as,
ultimately i reserve that right to say "no" even if i do not expect
to have to use it. #
[09:03] Vanni Cannoli: I think even a slave can say
"no" if what the M type is about to do is out of the limits that were
at least originally negotiated, or at least "yellow" and talk about
it.
[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: A BDSM slave isn't chattel, after all
:)
[09:04] Peaches Svenska: exactly
[09:04] Candice Svenska: totally
[09:04] Peaches Svenska: limits is the decision maker
[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: That was a very good comment Doxie,
and I think you really have a keen insight into it
[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks!
[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: Brianne you have a question please
[09:05] Brianne: I live for submission and objectification,
and I obey first and sincerely, but don't think of myself as a slave because I
don't feel like 'only property' even though I feel owned. Is there any clean definition of what a slave
is at all? (I think that Sir Ballard is
on to something. The close inspection
caused by labeling is a rat hole) It's
kinda frustrating because I would like to communicate effectively. If it takes me an hour to describe my role to
someone, that's a major turn-off. (Of
course, maybe my floating title usually does the work for me. hee.) #
[09:06] Vanni Cannoli: Due to time, Brianne, I will answer
that by saying "no, there is no clean answer," As we've seen,
everyone has a different view on this, and as long as everything is consensual
and happy, really outside opinions aren't going to do much.
[09:06] Iris Seven: r to Brianne
[09:06] Vanni Cannoli: go ahead Iris
[09:07] Brianne: so that means the word 'slave' is useless
in a practical way
[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: Between contexts, probably
[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: in a particular relationship, it is
very important
[09:07] Iris Seven: I'm not only property either but I am
property...being treasured as such doesn't diminish the essential fact that I
am#
[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: I"m going to promote Aspen as
she needs to go soon, then Teddy have ready whatever you want to say.
[09:10] Aspen Diamond: Thank You Vannie,
A D/s relationship Like Master Ballard expressed about
saying what the S means in his house. It is up to the Dominate to make that
discussion because he and only he can make that final naming each girl who fits
it..Or what his expectation are for each girl..
For the Power
exchange of a True Real World Slave as Vic decided is very true. I have seen this with the
couple who got me into SL.. Total Power Exchange to me means that you first
negotiate at the very start of your D/s relationship. You and your Dom/Master
would have set time to revisit the negotiation. as the change to both of you.
It does happen if for example you Dom/Mistress gets sick or if you get sick.
You have to be KINDA flexible. Again Master Ballard is right on with his
comment about the slave needing that control. I was at a REAL LIFe munch last
night and we were discussing the very same thing. As a slave slave I do need
that control. Being a Dommie during the day with school and the kids and I have
to be a Dommie to
[09:10] Aspen Diamond:
them I am very tired when I get home. Wishing to have that Dom here for
me in real to take full control of me would be a blessing to me.
Master Ballard, I do agree with totally because maybe it is
our age. We are very old style of thinking.
With the new 21st thinking to TPE of a slave/sub even you
have to try to explain.
I have to look at myself as a slave when I do things and
then seeing my submissive side and to mix them together. That is me.
[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: Thank you Aspen, I always like how
you get your First Life experience connected to SL
[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: Good comment! :)
[09:12] Aspen Diamond: Thank you
[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: OK Teddy, you're up, get it all out
[09:12] Teddy: idk how to identify as slave or sub.cause i
just think in puppy. an i say sub if asked.cause idk what else to say. people
say slaves dont say no (mostly). an always obey. rarely think about something
somone tells me to do.i just do it.because puppies should do that for humans.
an i do that.so should i say slave?but i say puppy. but can you be both? idk. i
get confused. ithink maybe i dont want to identify as either of them because
its too confusing.but i have to because being puppy doesnt make sense to lots
of people #
[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: Well Teddy, as I said, if you id as a
slave, and your Dominant says you're a slave, then you're a slave.
[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: Period. Full stop.
[09:14] Teddy: whatwould you do if you felt one way an your
dominant said you was another way?
[09:14] Ballard: Negotiate
[09:14] Vanni Cannoli: We can all disagree on how *we* would
roll with it, but really, no one is in a position to tell others how they roll.
And I think that is something we exemplify here at Xaara. Tolerance of how
others roll.
[09:14] Vanni Cannoli: Right, negotiate and communicate
about it
[09:15] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks Teddy!
[09:15] Vanni Cannoli: Pure, do you have a comment?
[09:16] Pure: Personally, WHO I am with my Master is up to
us. Every relationship is different. There is no "pattern" or
"rules" for building a relationship. I am submissive because I know
who I am and not because I have a "title". We have negotiated and we
"renegotiate" according to the needs of each person over the course
of daily life (RL or SL). Nothing complicated. Once again, it is communication
and openness that allows us to live harmoniously. We are not defined by a role.
Master highly appreciates my submission and my obedience. I belong to him, but
I am not a "property". And I am fully aware that I need a steady hand
to guide me. Not from someone who is going to want to "define" who I
am and say to me: "you are going to be my slave"
[09:16] RB Quinn: Well said, Pure!!!
[09:16] Vanni Cannoli: That totally makes sense, Pure.
[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: Good point, thanks Pure :)
[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: Sultry, you are up please
[09:17] -ღ Sultry Seven ღ-: Thank you, Vanni! Of course, I agree with Iris as usual, and
many others. I have recently done quite a bit of changing over the last few
months and I am finding I am identifying more as a slave. However, my Master has also identified me as
submissive and small part babygirl (although this I keep to a teeny tiny
part). I am not going to identify myself
in comparison to others as I may have done before. I am serving my Master in any or all of these
ways as he and I interact. I know I will
continue to grow the longer I serve him, and the more my wants and needs
change. I think negotiations will always
be a factor in any dynamic.#
[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: Well said!
[09:19] Vanni Cannoli: Again, my personal take is, the more
one slides toward "Slave" the more they are dependent on the will of
the Dominant to decide how the relationship will go.
[09:19] Aspen Diamond: Vety Ture Vanni Smiling
[09:19] Vanni Cannoli: But I also think any M-type worth
their salt will always take into consideration the needs and changes in their
slave, even if They are the ones making the decisions how thing will go
[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: And TRUST is highly implicit here
[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: A slave has to TRUST their M-Type
will always do right by them
[09:20] Dijana384: completely Vanni
[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks Sultry!
[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: Master Ballard again please!
[09:20] Ballard: Vanni, this is a great discussion every
week. It reaches many time zones and
regions. We almost waylays run
over. I would like to suggest that you
start to schedule this for at least 90 minutes, if not 120. Who wants to be rushed? it's Sunday!
((Disclaimer: This suggestion came from Peaches and
Candice, and I agree)) #
[09:21] Sher: Agrees with Ballard
[09:21] Pure: Agree!
[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: We seem to go to almost 9:30 every
day lol
[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: We can schedule it for 90 mins and
anyone that needs to leave can always just head out
[09:22] RB Quinn: Many discussions I find myself wishing it
was over. Vanni's I feel the exact
opposite.
[09:22] Vanni Cannoli: Ok Teddy, go ahead
[09:22] Vanni Cannoli: then I have a final point to make
[09:22] Teddy: i was told that the tel of like how good a
dominant is.is how they control themselves an look the other when theygot full
control over them.so like. they can do anything within limit.but they chooseto
consider things.even tho they dont have to?#
[09:23] Vanni Cannoli: I think a good Dominant of any sort
does that Teddy!
[09:23] Vanni Cannoli: ok so I have an example
[09:23] Vanni Cannoli: I'd like to see what Y/you think of
it
[09:24] Vanni Cannoli: A Domme in my RL community, Miss D,
has a slave named Mo/e, who is gender fluid, so at times is Mo and at times is
Moe, if that makes snese
[09:24] Vanni Cannoli: Mo/e is her slave.
[09:24] Vanni Cannoli: But Miss D says that Mo/e is NOT
submissive at all
[09:24] Vanni Cannoli: I couldn't grok that at all so asked
Miss D about it
[09:25] Vanni Cannoli: And she said "A slave just wants
to serve. Mo/e gets off coming to my place and doing my laundry and cooking
food for me and cleaning."
[09:25] Vanni Cannoli: But Miss D said that in other areas,
Mo/e has no desire for any control at all
[09:25] Dijana384: interesting
[09:25] Vanni Cannoli: In fact, Mo/e has a girl that they
have a kinky love affair going with, and acts as a Dominant toward
[09:26] Vanni Cannoli: I thought that was an interesting
take on it
[09:26] Dijana384: yes very
[09:26] Vanni Cannoli: Slaves just want to serve
[09:26] RB Quinn shouts: Scorecard! Can't tell yer M's from D's and s's from s's
without one.. Scorecard!!!!
[09:27] Vanni Cannoli: Mo/e just wants to come over and
serve Miss D.
[09:27] Vanni Cannoli: That's it, that's how they define
Mo/es "slavery"
[09:27] Dijana384: a special dynamic
[09:27] Pure: more a servant than a slave
[09:27] Vanni Cannoli: Mo/e will do anything Miss D demands
about serving her. But Miss D has zero control over any other aspects of their
life.
[09:27] RB Quinn: Interesting, but hardly 'typical'
[09:28] Vanni Cannoli: I just offer it as an example of how
open ended this can be
[09:28] Vanni Cannoli: Anyway thank Y/you all for coming
today!
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