[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!
[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: Before I open the discussion, let me post the usual header: Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q. If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"
[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: We generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.
[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: We generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.
[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: While we are a chatty group, lots of extra chat makes it "noisy," so if we can please keep that to a minimum, it would be very appreciated, thank Y/you!
[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: The blog for this munch is: https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/ It holds the archive for our munches here starting Jan 3, 2021.
[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: So today we continue our discussion of the types of D/s relationship with a look at the DaddyDom/Babygirl dynamic, and the less common but still valid other gendered types of that (such as "Mommy/Babygirl" etc
[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: I want to specify something before we get into this
[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: This is a very different idea that "Ageplay"
[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: At least in the BDSM/sex version of it
[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: That's forbidden in SL, even though I'm sure it still goes on sub rosa
[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: And DD/Bg is also different than "Littles" which we will touch on at the end if we have time
[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: So with that said, there are a number of people that really enjoy the dynamic in the DaddyDom/Babygirl (or other) kind of dynamic.
[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: Last week we talked about differences between Dom/me and sub and Master/Mistress and Slave
[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: And based on my observation, the DD/Bg dynamic is a far cry from Master/Slave (or other forms)
[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: I'm not sure polar opposite, but definitely a very, very different dynamic
[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: So as we open the talk here, I have two questions: 1) is there A/anyone here that is into this dynamic (in any gender form), and 2) What are thoughts on it, either from those folks, or in general?
[08:22] Vanni Cannoli: Is this something Y/you enjoy, Y/you would consider, or perhaps for a reason avoid for your own reasons?
[08:23] Ballard: c
[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: Master Ballard, You can start us off please!
[08:28] Ballard: This topic is almost never received with emotional neutrality. I have already granted permission to one person to leave if she starts to feel triggered.
DD/bg style is something I do not do. Because of that I have studied it, talked to people, and even had to write up an essay for my Adept path. The surprising result is that there are, in fact, some relations between this and Master slave. both tend to encourage a strong sense of dependency, and carry elements of TPE.
Why don't I do it? A story may explain it best. A few years ago when I came to Xaara there was a woman here that was a middie baby girl. Damn she was cute! She wore sweet dresses, and wore the right hair styles. I was attracted. But as we became friends I saw the teddy bear, and other aspects of the dynamic she seeks, and frankly I wanted her to grow up. I want women. My thing is adult, sexy, well dressed ladies. More than that, the dependent nature of DD/bg is not something I'm looking for. I prefer strong, decisive personalities. #
[08:30] Vanni Cannoli: I understand that Master Ballard, and that's one of the reasons that some people feel less than comfortable around the dynamic.
[08:30] Vanni Cannoli: But to be fair, not all babygirls are the teddybear carrying, cute type
[08:30] Ballard: Oh no, they come in various styles.
[08:31] Vanni Cannoli: for example, I believe that Shy, Master Erik's girl, does the babygirl dynamic with Him, but she to my knowledge doesn't do the teddybear :)
[08:32] Vanni Cannoli: But yes, I do get Your view on that, Sir. Thank You!
[08:32] Vanni Cannoli: Let's go to Aspen, please!
[08:32] Aspen Diamond: Thank you Vanni
I am very confused because here in SL I was told that I am more like a baby girl. I was very surprised by that and was not sure what a baby girls acts like or with what kind of Master/Dom. I am very confused on this dynamic.. I have always known that I am a slave/sub. That is why the confusion. So is there two different types of baby girl.
[08:33] Vanni Cannoli: "Babygirl" is really more of a generalized type of submissive, Aspen, as "DaddyDom" is a generalized type of Dominant. Or "Mommy" etc.
[08:35] Vanni Cannoli: Which oddly enough brings us to Brianne and her questions
[08:35] Vanni Cannoli: er question
[08:35] Brianne: Thank you, Vanni...
[08:36] Brianne: This may be the 'dumbest' question I've asked to date, but how does one tell if their a 'baby girl'? I have been 'accused' of being in that dynamic but not sure if I'm into calling anyone 'Daddy'. And I'm not a little girl, but it seems the cutenss and flirtiness and feigned innocence and somewhat-brattiness looks interesting. It seems to overlap with Bimbo a little too. Again, I'm just not sure of what people are talking about with these terms. #
[08:36] Ballard: c @ Bri
[08:36] Vanni Cannoli: M/B! "Master/Bimbo!"
[08:36] Brianne: yaaas!
[08:36] Vanni Cannoli: lol
[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: Well as I said with Aspen, maybe the comments will help to clarify, Brianne
[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: Master Ballard has a comment toward your question so go ahead please Sir.
[08:38] Ballard: Don't let the labels mess you up. Be you. There is no script or program to follow if you enter a relationship, only what the negotiations lead to. So Bri, you have made yourself a cherished member of this community. Any D would be damn lucky to engage with you. Dont try to be something that you are not, just because people love labels. #
[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: Agreed!
[08:39] Brianne: Thank you Sir, I will follow that advice closely
[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: Ok let's move on and see if more comments yield more insight!
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: Laila you are up please!
[08:41] Laila Raines: Similar to Aspen, I have always seen aspects of my submission as 'babygirl' but unlike Mister Ballard's experience, I do not carry a teddy or act in a childish manner, aka have temper tantrums. What I like about the dynamic is the feeling of nurturing I get from a DaddyDom. I feel very loved and protected. I feel like I am 'taught' things. I am spoiled and treated like a princess. I like pretty things and those are provided to me. In return, I do my best to grow each and every day. Some have mentioned to me that this does not make me a babygirl. That I am simply a sub that likes to be sassy on occasion. All I am is me and I look for those that fit well with that.
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: Amen!
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: Right on the money!
[08:42] Vanni Cannoli: And as Master Ballard said, external labels don't apply, we each come up with our own self-definitions
[08:42] Laila Raines smiles happily
[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: and I would say, Laila, that what you are describing is the more common characteristics of "babygirl" that I have seen.
[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: And even when I seen a bg with a stuffed animal, they usually aren't acting like a 10 year old, it's just a cute thing to them
[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: I think it's to create whimsy more than the idea they're a kid
[08:44] Vanni Cannoli: Excellent comment, thank you! :)
[08:44] Vanni Cannoli: Let's move to Sir Sam please
[08:44] Sam Cabot: You're right that DDlg does not have to be sexual. Not saying it can't be, but it's not an essential ingredient. I enjoy this dynamic with a couple girls. One of them is one my most cherished relationships on SL. We have an amazing dynamic. I can feel the difference between her "I'm fine daddy" and "I'm fine daddy" (yeah, they both 'read' the same). People can't believe that in a virtual world, where typed words can't show emotion, they do for me. I think protectiveness and tenderness, eagerness to nurture and encourage are 3 of the driving factors in DDlg. To Brianne's point, yes, the cuteness, and playfulness also contribute to being seen as a babygirl. I find that within this dynamic, the D types like seeing their s type being carefree, and joyful. Without being disrespectful of course.#
[08:45] Vanni Cannoli: Excellent comment as well Sir!
[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: I think the protection and nurture is what really earmarks this kind of D/s style, not that such doesn't exist in other forms, of course
[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: But I think that's the centerpiece of it
[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: Just as a girl can usually turn to her biological daddy for that support, they connect it to a Dominant
[08:47] Brianne nods in agreement with Sir Sam
[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: And of course, other stuff may happen that a bio "Daddy" won't do. *grins*
[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: Well said, thank You Sir!
[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: Let's go to Sultry, please!
[08:48] -ღ Sultry Seven ღ-: Thanks, Vanni! Well said, Laila! My Master has told me that I am a slave first, submissive next and then there's a little bit of babygirl in me too. I think the babygirl comes from me just needing a little intimacy that goes beyond the sexual act. Or that babygirl is just part of my "sassy" as he also says. I enjoy acting a little sweet but not childlike. I think we all crave that a little. I am definitely a woman first and foremost. My appearance may come off as "cute and sweet" sometimes but that is just an appearance and not who I am. I like cute and pretty things but that does not make me cute and sweet! In the end, my need is for the control and dominance of a Master. *grins*#
[08:49] Vanni Cannoli: Well said, Sultry!
[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: And I agree that each dynamic is different, so some may have a great deal of the DD/Bg connection, others might have it as part of a mix of things
[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: Humans are dynamic, which is why we sociologists don't like making typologies of *people* but of *behaviors* that many people might connect with
[08:51] Vanni Cannoli: Very good comment, thank you!
[08:51] Vanni Cannoli: Ok Dae, you are up!
[08:51] Daelenie McMillan: Thajnk you, It's a bit of a ramble since I had to rewrite a couple times. Everyone has made several of the points I was thinking but here goess...
[08:52] Daelenie McMillan: Despite the facty I like dressing in ELlegant Gothic Lolita style once in a while, I have never been in a DD/bbg relationship. I do know several people that are and have but, I have never really understood it.
While I have known people in RP sims that play kids, the sons or daughters of other characters, I never understood that either. I don't judge though even if I would never do that type of RP. Although, I'm a dragon and a Cat sometimes so I figure it must be something like that. A total removal from your norm and a different mindset than the usual(?)
As for the bbg thing.. is it a feeling of being cherished and cared for that does it? I have seen many bbg that try the Way of the Brat and it works for them mostly. Sometimes it fails miserably. I have seen many who do the sweet and innocent but yeah, like aspen it confuses me too.
Would I do a DD/bbg? I don't know, maybe if I met the right person and they wanted to do that. But like Aspen said, I don't realy know how to act that way. Kudo's to
[08:52] Daelenie McMillan: those that are and can.
sorry for the ramble it was just thoughts.
[08:52] Daelenie McMillan: It's realy just the questions I have to pose I guess. In th eend thouogh if DD/bbg is your thing go for it!
[08:52] Daelenie McMillan: #
[08:53] Vanni Cannoli: DaddyDom/BabyDragon?
[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: Anyway I agree with what you said, and it's always clear that any dynamic that is enjoyed by five people will be a puzzle to five others
[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: But as we've said here, each of us does it how it works for us
[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: DD/Bg is enjoyed by many, and as long as everything is SSC, it's great!
[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks Dae!
[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: Aspen, you are back up please
[08:57] Aspen Diamond: Thank you Vanni
I feel the same way as Brianne about NOT Calling a Master or Mistress Daddy and Mommy. I am a grown women.
Thank you Master Ballard for your comment. That helps me also look at this a different way. And yes it is oh how you set up your relationship with negotiations from the start. I know that I don't act in a childish manner but at time it is the emotions of words from that person saying things. That is what I get caught up in. No Tebby bears here.
I have always thought that D/s was the kind of protection and nurture to make her improve herself worth and serving her Master. D/s vs DD/s is that sex is a part of that relationship but it is the way it is set up I guess.
Sultry, you hit it right on the noes for me that is how I feel. First being the slave I am, the my submission and my submissive come next and them I guess the a little badygirl comes out. It is the Intimacy is what I crave for. I love trying to be sexy for my Master all of the time and meet his needs that he has.
[08:58] Brianne applauds!
[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: All well said
[08:58] harry: well said Aspen
[08:59] Vanni Cannoli: and I want to reiterate that not all babygirls act like kids, it's more the protective/nurture kind of thing that drives the dynamic primarily
[08:59] Vanni Cannoli: I guess it's more "where is the focus"
[09:00] Aspen Diamond: Yes!! and the focus is where it is Vanni
[09:00] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks Aspen!
[09:00] Vanni Cannoli: Go ahead, Laila :)
[09:01] Laila Raines: I feel like the bigger part of the DD/bg dynamic is the Dom/me themselves. I tend to follow their lead. What are others thoughts on that?
[09:01] Vanni Cannoli: anyone can answer without a C if Y/you wish
[09:02] Sir Jason Oi™: I would think that the D-type leads no matter what the specific flavor of power exchange
[09:02] Becky Summerland: I always cringe when someone implies its more the Domme or the sub... its a relationship and both have to put in who they are and build it together.#
[09:03] Daelenie McMillan: The "Daddy" would be, would have to be at least half the equation but for someone that identifies as a babygirl, she'd just be that way with or without. Maybe a bit more undirected without but it seems it's just part of that person to be that way. Just a thought though.
[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: Agreed!
[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: I do tend to think it's both, as the sub has to be interested in that dynamic, Laila.
[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: I think a Dominant saying, minus negotiation "You're now a babygirl" would be abusive, just like a sub sort of demanding that in their interactions
[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: but they work together on the dynamic and how they will interact
[09:06] Vanni Cannoli: But as a sociologist I tend to think EVERYTHING humans do is pretty dynamic!
[09:06] Vanni Cannoli: And synergistic
[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks for the question!
[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: Master Ballard we come back to You
[09:08] Ballard: Thank you Vanni, for this interesting topic. I have RL work to do, and must be off. One last comment I want to make is that because this dynamic is 'not my kink' I really like to hear people talk about it. Only by listening can we be tolerant and empathetic.
I wish you all well! My girls, I will be back later today. #
[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: I agree Master Ballard!
[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: Please go ahead Miss Becky
[09:11] Becky Summerland: Speaking from the perspective of a trainer, I get many demands for training and I refuse a lot of them, for this reason... You got to know who/what you are to train and get out of them the best of their abilities... it would be foolish to train a cat to be a dog and vice versa, so, if they are not into what you can train them to be, they better move on to another trainer and the trainer to another trainee... its simple maths, if what your possible partner enjoys is not what you can teach them or enjoy doing, it won't work. This can be said of every dynamics, even in the vanilla world. Some girls will never be babygirls, no matter how much you train them, and some dominants are not the nurturing type, so, they will never be a Mommynant or Daddynant.#
[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: Agreed, Miss Becky!
[09:11] Lisa Summerland: Well said Love
[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: The Scorpion will always surrender to its nature ;)
[09:12] Becky Summerland: so said the fox ;p
[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: Trying to be something we're not is pretty much never going to work
[09:13] Lisa Summerland: Be yourself, everyone else is taken
[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: So I have a final point to make
[09:14] Vanni Cannoli: Babygirls (or the rarer boys) are different than Littles.
[09:15] Vanni Cannoli: And by "Littles" I am NOT talking about the "Big Baby" fetish. That is very un-nerving to some so let's avoid that, please. By "Little" I mean a subby type that *really* likes acting like a kid, like in grade school.
[09:15] Vanni Cannoli: One night my RL club got invaded by littles
[09:15] Vanni Cannoli: A bunch of them showed up for an open community party
[09:15] Vanni Cannoli: like 15 or so
[09:15] Vanni Cannoli: they were running around yelling, screaming, roller skating
[09:16] Vanni Cannoli: playing jacks and hopscotch
[09:16] Vanni Cannoli: one brought in a red wagon and was giving rides
[09:16] Vanni Cannoli: so the DMs herded them into one room and said they had to stay in there
[09:16] Sir Jason Oi™: I'd have wondered if someone spiked my beverage with acid
[09:16] Vanni Cannoli: oh it was nuts
[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: now that said, we do have some littles in my RL community that like to come in, dress in kid style clothes, ribbons in their hair, and sit in our "break room" and color and play with play dough
[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: So most of them are in no way obnoxious
[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: In general they say they somehow missed out on childhood, so being a kid in a bdsm setting lets them live what they missed
[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: it was just that one night with the pack of them, Aspen, most of the littles I've encountered don't cause problems
[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: Also, based on my time in the RL community, I have not seen any of the littles doing anything sexual or kinky with anyone. it's mostly just acting like a kid and being able to enjoy that
[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: If they do stuff at home, it's their issue
[09:20] Joanne: ((have a lovely day all, hugs and kisses))
[09:20] Becky Summerland: stay safe Joanne ♥
[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: So I guess my point is that we often mix up Babygirl and Little, and they're really two different things
[09:21] Aspen Diamond: I am thinking that I can't control what is going on but be a where what is going around you that you can control.
[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: So thank Y/you all for coming!
[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: Next week we'll talk about everyone's favorite...the BRAT
[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: and not the Bratwurst
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