[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): alrighty let's get the humiliation car on the road
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and
welcome to Koffee Klatch!
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions
are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if
you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually
directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract
either your C or your Q. If a person has
a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @
[name]"
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in
the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a
person's comment to the top. The
handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks
a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply,
replies to the question will be open.
Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for
this Klatch can be found here:
https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/
It houses current and many older discussions.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of
the way, we'll begin.
[15:41] (Coffee
Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!
[15:41] (Coffee
Discussion Tracker): Our moderator for this session will be Vanessa Cannoli
[15:41] (Coffee
Discussion Tracker): The discussion will be run in a C - Comment, Q - Question
format.
[15:41] (Coffee
Discussion Tracker): Just type a C or a Q in local to be added to the speaker
list.
[15:41] (Coffee
Discussion Tracker): To withdraw your comment type an R
[15:41] (Coffee
Discussion Tracker): If you'd like to enter your words anonymously, just touch
this box.
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Over the past few
weeks we have been going over the BDSM acronym
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we finished B/D
and went into S/M. The last two weeks we
have talked about general ideas of Sado-Masochism.
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I as usual have
some exposition and then we'll go to comments and questions. As they come up just drop the C or Q in as I
ramble.
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This week we
start more specific kinds of discussions, in this case, Humiliation play.
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some people find
humiliation puzzling -- why would people *want* to be humiliated? What kind of kick do they get out of it? Some find it horribly offensive.
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The important
thing is ... here at Xaara, as long as things fall in to SSC kinds of
activities, then what people do is their biz.
We can not like it, we can say to ourselves "I'd never do
that" but we're not going to judge it.
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): When we think of
"humiliation" we usually think of a bottom or sub being trampled on,
their Dom or Top telling them they are
worthless shit, doing Golden or Roman Showers on them.
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just because
that's a typical Saturday night for me doesn't make me strange, ok?
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)
[15:45] Angela (MadamA Himmel): grins
[15:45] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): smirks.
[15:45] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I mean you are
strange, but for altogether different reasons *nods sagely*
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But in all
honesty, more of us do very subtle forms of humiliation than we think, and
people that enjoy this kind of kink are not "strange", they have
their kink and are enjoying it with people who share it. It's all good and yummy!
[15:45] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): googles
'roman shower'...
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): probably
shouldn't ... ;)
[15:46] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): ....I wish
I hadn't
[15:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): tied into a
vomitorium?
[15:46] Gabrielle Zsun (Gabrielle Zsun): i only get showers with out curtains for roman shower
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A vomitarium was
actually the archway that led in and out of a roman arena actually
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as
"vomito" means "to expel, to issue forth"
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but it also has
the more....unfortunate idea...
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ahem
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): moving on!
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's use a
subtle example here: how many subs here
enjoy to be leashed, and how many of our Dominants enjoy putting an S-Type on a
leash?
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): raises
my hand for both being switchy
[15:48] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): raises
hand
[15:48] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): raises
hand
[15:48] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): nods
and raises both hands.
[15:48] Angela (MadamA Himmel): <<<< only in SL
[15:48] Jesseca Littlepaws (Jesseca Littlepaws): raises
hand
[15:48] SylviaAurelia (SylviaAurelia Resident): sure
[15:48] Gabrielle Zsun (Gabrielle Zsun): right Madame Angela
[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So most of us
enjoy either doing something we do to an animal, or being leashed like a dog or
what not...but that's not how we usually *think* of it.
[15:49] Angela (MadamA Himmel): its easier all around
[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But if we walked
around in polite, vanilla society with a person on a leash or on a leash
ourselves, we would be stared at, comments would be made and shock would be
real.
[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And the feeling
of connection that is made via a leash is also a form of external "look at
my sub on my leash, they are mine" or "I belong to my Dom , they have
me leashed."
[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So we get a kick
out of something that is simple in form but meaningful as it's a symbol of
power..and it's also putting the person *on* the leash in their place. It's a symbol of power exchange.
[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Before we go to
comments I want to discuss quickly three kinds of humiliation play.
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The first kind is
what termed "Status Humiliation".
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This is some kind
of activity where the Bottom/Sub is moved down the hierarchy to be sure they,
and everyone around knows, that the target is under the authority and rule of
the Top/Dominant.
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Leashing is a
perfect but fairly low key example of this.
[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Subbies, you know
what I mean when a Dominant puts us "where we belong"....
[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Even public
commands, "do this, kneel in this position, take your clothes off, eat
that banana upside down" are all examples of that power exchange done in
public.
[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It can be done in
public orders like "walk two steps behind me" or "kneel at the
Pier Bar and say nothing until I order you to do so."
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All those are
emblems of the power exchange and to make the S-type feel the power of the
Dominant.
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And the thrill
that comes with it!
[15:54] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *melts*
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): See?
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The second kind
of humiliation play is Object Humiliation.
This is when the bottom/sub is turned into some form of object or
perhaps an animal.
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Petplay, PonyPlay
and the like are examples.
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): They create a
"depersonalization" of the S-Type.
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A person can also
be turned into an object.
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Making a sub into
a footrest is a pretty classic example.
[15:56] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Like the
inimitable House of Gord
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): At a RL party I
went to years ago at a Dom's apartment, he had his girl turned into a lamp.
[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She was in her
bra and panties with a lampshade on her head and was holding one of those low
wattage Ikea lights on a cord
[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He gave her a
break every ten or so minutes to move around, drink, use the restroom and
stretch, and then she was back in the corner being a lamp
[15:58] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Whose
bright idea was that?
[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The third kind of
humiliation play is the most dicey one.
Emotional Humiliation. This is
where the Top/Dominant does use some kind of name calling, or humiliating acts,
that are *****NEGOTIATED***** with the sub.
[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Note the big word
there: Negotiated!!!!!
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): For example, in a
scene where I am the bottom, I'm quite happy to be called "Bitch"
"whore" or have certain degrading things done to me that have been
*NEGOTIATED* beforehand.
[15:59] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): nods.
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): OUT of that, if
someone calls me "whore" or bitch where it is not negotiated, they're
gonna find out what a half Sicilian, half Brazilian woman does to show
her...ire.
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Like the guy at a
Flogging Molly concert that grabbed me while really drunk, and I punched him
right in the face and he fell into his buddies who laughed at him.
[16:00] Hettange Ferryhill (Hettange Ferryhill): Smiles.
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It was
satisfying!
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All that said,
with negotiation, Emotional Humiliation can be a fun thing for the Dominant and
sub with proper care and control. But
NEVER do this minus a lot of negotiation, understanding and checking in.
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And during
aftercare talk about it, see how it went and modify the next time, if there is
one.
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok that's my
discourse on this.
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We now throw it
open to the August Assembly...do Y/you enjoy Humiliation play? Avoid it like the plague? If Y/you do it, how is it kept SSC? Have Y/you seen good and/or bad examples of
this?
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Miss Wynter when
you are ready please!
[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Three parter
coming up:
[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): As you rightly
pointed out Vanni, humiliation will show up differently for different people
and dynamics. So much of BDSM and D/s can be a highly mental exchange. The
feeling of the power exchange, the racing thoughts as a submissive is
restrained and waiting for their Dominant's next actions.
[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Where it differs
for me when it comes to humiliation, is that it is not a manifestation of other
actions, but direct mental exchange based upon the interaction of the sub with
others and their Dominant. The "what we do" at this point, is more
mental than physical, and as such, it can be harder to discern when a limit has
been reached. In the past, when I've had a submissive who wanted to be
humiliated, I made sure they knew to use their safeword without hesitation. As
that trust is built, you can figure out where the line is and dance up next to
it, giving a satisfying experience for both parties.
[16:04] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Kind of like how
you mentioned though, this applies more so towards the emotional humiliation
and potentially degradation that may be done as part of it. If you don't know
the signs of withdrawal and depression, be sure to look it up and understand
it. I can tell when I've gone to far in an SM scene, you can't always tell when
you might have gone too far with humiliation unless you know the signs.#
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): gives
Miss Wynter a 100% on all three parts and a pretty star on the test paper :P
[16:04] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): great
comment
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said Miss!
[16:04] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): giggles.
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I
agree...emotional humiliation is dicey and just as potentially harmful as
physical play...but harder to discern *where* it may have gone sideways.
[16:05] Angela (MadamA Himmel): <<<< avoid it
like the plague :) - I do not consider a stool or a leash humiliation or
claiming status, and while verbal "dressing down" when it is needed,
it may be viewed as humilation be the recievng person, to me that is not
humiliation either, so in essence, Humiliation is not something I engage in
[16:06] Angela (MadamA Himmel): *by
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Which is why I
suggest not only aftercare but check in later, even days later.
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just to be sure
there aren't lingering effects that were not clear right after the scene.
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Of course that
becomes less critical as the Dom and sub
get to know each other and where they stand.
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But definitely at
first
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All very well
said Miss Wynter and spot on, thank You!
[16:08] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Welcome :)
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lexis withdrew
her question...it was answered in what Miss Wynter said?
[16:09] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Kinda, and
with what Madame Angela said... I enjoy the 'theatre' of D/s, leash et al... so
I don't feel humiliated by it in a D/s context.... so is it 'humiliation play'
in that case... I surmised not, it's just 'play'
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I was using it as
an example of a very light form of humiliation play that has become
"mainstreamed" to the point that we don't even really think of it as
humiliating. But try walking around in
polite society like that.
[16:10] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): And even
the objectification I enjoy isn't 'humiliating'
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lexis, Status and
Object Humiliation aren't designed to play with one's emotions. They are designed to either reduce one in
status and/or depersonalize the sub.
[16:12] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): good
distinction
[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If anything
they'll provoke a very positive emotion as the sub is turned into a dog or a
lamp or whatever.
[16:12] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Exactly!
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And emotional
humiliation done *right* can be very positive, but done wrong can be very very
dangerous.
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As the guy at the
concert found out when he went for the titty grab.
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh on the way out
of the concert the security guard came up to me and said "nice shot on
that guy!"
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): NOT what he would
have done had one guy punched another lolol
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyway don't
think of humiliation in this context as 'making the sub feel worthless'...if
it's doing that, it's abuse.
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (if not corrected
at the very least)
[16:15] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): in short,
the question I was going to ask has been answered
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This is a topic
worth expanding on!
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks!
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Sir
Johan please!
[16:15] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): So originally I was
mainly into light sexy time verbal humiliation.
[16:15] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): it; it
may not be 'humiliating' the manner in which we consider it, but it causes SOME
form of enjoyment, perhaps in the 'taboo' of not being the norm. #done
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So is the boot
camp scene in "Full Metal Jacket" solid viewing for this, Sir? ;)
[16:17] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): nods in
agreement.
[16:17] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): oooo,
'taboo', good word, yes, that is certainly an aspect
[16:17] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): 100% but I don't
advocate anymore for the line regarding "Only two things come from
Texas!" unless its specifically
agreed upon using LGBTQIA slurs in a good way
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Or the line about
"fried chicken and watermelon...."
[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but that's a
great way to look at it Sir...what they do in military boot camp isn't to make
the trainees really feel like s**t...it's to force them into conformity so
they're working together in combat, god forbid it were to happen.
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and humiliation
play is thrilling but it's not designed to really make the sub feel like s**t
either...it's to create a kinky "thing" that makes them happy.
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Great analogy!
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You Sir!
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Madam
Angela please.
[16:21] Angela (MadamA Himmel): thank you Vanessa
[16:21] Angela (MadamA Himmel): Sorry, I forgot to put in my
C earlier and just typed …. I avoid humiliation like the plague :) - I do not
consider someone being a stool or being leashed humiliation, nor claiming
status humiliation, and while a verbal "dressing down", when it is
needed, may be viewed as humiliation by the receiving person, to me that is not
humiliation either, its a corrective measure … a consequence .... so in
essence, humiliation is not something I engage in. In SL a leash / collar /
being a stool / helps the visual, a visual that is not needed in 1st life in a
lot of cases … it makes interaction easier in SL, something that is not needed
in my 1st life. Some would say that a "consequence" (a dressing down
/ being pulled up short verbally) could be viewed as emotional humiliation, but
not in my case, its just a result, correction, not humiliation. To Johan :) ….
If someone enjoyed it and is bratty to archive such with me, they would be
dismissed as "not compatible with me" … smiles # (done)
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oooo we will get
to Brats in a few weeks, Madam!
[16:22] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Oooh please
definitely let me know when that is so I can plan for it. Brat play is
something I"m super unfamiliar with but learning for my syllabus
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But yes, a sub
that is bratty can be a nightmare to a Dom that isn't prepared for what They're
getting into lol
[16:23] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *hides behind
Master's chair*
[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But just to be
clear again Madam, when we talk about Status and Object Humiliation, it's about
subordination rather than emotion. The
girl turned into a lamp at that party was "humiliated" by being a
lamp, but that was the kink, she found it thrilling to be there like that.
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So Dominants and
subs that find fun ways to play like that are sharing kinks.
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But...it's not
what everyone is into and that's 100% fine!
[16:24] Angela (MadamA Himmel): smiles, there is an element
of difference culturally as well here, so I certainly understand your point
[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Your point is
valid and well taken, Madam!
[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much
for sharing that! ♥
[16:25] Angela (MadamA Himmel): smiles
[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Miss Sylvia You
are up please!
[16:25] SylviaAurelia (SylviaAurelia Resident): It seems to
me that all humiliation play must be emotional, since humiliation is an
emotion. And if the person isn't feeling humiliated by the action we shouldn't
call it humiliation play. And since different people will find different things
humiliating at best we can make a list of things that might be used in
humiliation play, but which may well for some people not actually be
humiliating. Eg. I can imagine two people being lamp posts, and one really enjoys
it and doesn't feel at all humiliated, and another doing the exact same thing
might find it mortifying. And we need to make sure we know which actions which
people really find humiliating so we know how much support they are going to
need.
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I suppose one
could call those "subordination play" ... but as there is a
humilating factor involved to some level, that's what they have traditionally
been called.
[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *Forcing* a
person to be a lamp against their will would be abuse, not play. A person at a party in their undies being a
lamp might make them feel "strange" and looked at....but if they
*want* it, they're getting a kick from it and it's positive.
[16:29] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): I think i
agree with you Miss Sylvia, I think the fact it's 'supposed' to be humiliating
in 'normal' society is a factor, as Sir Johan said, there is a taboo factor
[16:29] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): So that was a thought
I had prior to reading/studying it as well.
The way they explained it in the book is that sometimes you get that
little 'buzz' from the slight 'naughty' that comes from being made to be a
stool, to worship a boot, to being called names, etc. Maybe that 'Emotional Play' is a better
word for it, but its seeking to 'tingle' either the slightly humilating feeling
of being objectified, ignored, or even HEAVILY humiliated as in
watersports/scat play. #done
[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Everyone has
their kink!
[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Vanillas seeing a
regular old "play party" where people are getting enjoyment from
flogging, whipping and beating on others will say "WTF is the matter with
you people, are you nuts?"
[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): No, we get off by
this stuff! Whoo hoo!
[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Same with various
forms of humiliation play. "Who can
get off being a lamp? How the hell can
you enjoy looking and acting like a dog?"
If I'm into it, then turn me on and *bark bark!*
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Miss
Sylvia and Sir Johan! ALL views on this
are valid and welcome!
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Miss
Xoralyn please.
[16:34] Xoralyn (Xoralyn Resident): Thank you, Vanessa. I am
not into some sorts of humiliation. Humiliation can easily become abuse and for
that reason I am very careful. I agree that humiliation, to me is NOT about
making the sub feel worthless. I enjoy the mental twisting of words and playful
mind humiliation. I do ensure it is playful and if I sense any form of defeat
or lowering of the sub’s energy, I ask about it and more importantly ensure
open communication during check-in or aftercare.
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes!!!
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100%
[16:35] Angela (MadamA Himmel): mayhem humiliation, fun,
laughter, blushes, I love it ... nods and smiles at Xoralyn
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Much like a
paddling must be done carefully physically, so must humiliation play be done
very carefully to avoid emotional harm
[16:36] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I'd argue even
more so, as there is no one technique fits all.
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I think some
of the misunderstanding about humiliation play that many have is that we equate
the word to abusive behavior. But in the
BDSM context done right, it's kink sharing, not abuse.
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And 100% Miss
Wynter.
[16:37] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): 'Kink
sharing', I like that phrase
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Miss
Xoralyn!
[16:38] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Very much so..
Sometimes that emotional, even the low, is used because the sub may want/need a
cathartic release and tears. Then once
they cry it out and get the 'feelings of worthless' out of their system
(Perhaps they were used to hearing it growing up and now they need to hear it
in a 'safe' environment; Afterwards you
build them back up.
[16:38] Xoralyn (Xoralyn Resident): :)
[16:38] Angela (MadamA Himmel): nods, compatibility is key ,
I agree
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, Sir!!!!
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said!
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You!
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Rune please!
[16:38] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): Mine is perhaps a
comment and question both.
[16:38] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): I have been involved in
various forms of humiliation play: from light status leashing, to middle of the
line stuff, to all out degrading play that I wouldn't want to really try again
unless my life depended on it. What I find interesting is that prior to coming
to this I wouldn't have defined most of my play as "humiliation" but
I realize now what I was engaging in was a shared humiliation kink that many
people have. It's the thrill that defines it, not necessarily an "embarrassment?"
Or maybe its both? In any case, in polite RL company it would definitely cause
me more "humiliation" than in SL where I am able to sit behind my
computer and have some degree of .... control that is a bit more defined I think.
And I think that is something that matters also and gives me pause to think
about. #
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let me give a RL
example
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A few years ago a
fellow brought a girl to our club that was scared to death of being
complimented (of all things). She was
very very very self-concious. But she
agreed to come and do this scene with him (and I talked to her and let me
assure you this was 100% consensual on her part)
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He had her strip
naked, put her on this collar and chain, and then led her around.
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and had asked us
to compliment her
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And we all said
how beautiful she was (and she was!)
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now that was
obviously a form of "humiliation" as she was naked on a chain and
collar.
[16:41] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): Yeah I would die inside
a little doing that lol
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But by the end of
the night she felt very happy, glowing and more self-confident.
[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): <3
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So it was a build
up, NOT a degrading of her self-esteem.
[16:42] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): smiles
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Follow up...she
turned into a total BDSM slut in a couple months LOL
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so the
'treatment' worked! *giggles*
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent points
Rune, thanks! ♥
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back to Miss
Wynter please
[16:43] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Actually, as an
addendum to what you said earlier Vanni, kink sharing is a wonderful term.
While we have a shortage of male submissives here at Xaara, if you end up at a
Femdom sim, many of the submissives may end up in some form of chastity.
Considering how many cultures consider the phallus and phallic symbology a
status symbol, having it caged and unable to release in typical ways can be a
very humiliating circumstance. But in any healthy dynamic, it will always
happen in the space of consent. But as they enjoy the humiliation, I equally
get off on the control I have over them. Just an example to add to the ideas of
humiliation not strictly being abusive.#
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right Miss!
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It is interesting
how many male subs at Femdoms are really craving forms of humiliation at the
hands of women (not all, but many!) I
think it's all about power play and gender roles.
[16:44] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): nods,
"Definitely so."
[16:44] Xoralyn (Xoralyn Resident): Agreed, Wynter.
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But it must be
done carefully as You say!
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (gotta speed up a
bit to get all the comments)
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You, Miss!
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back to Miss
Sylvia, please!
[16:45] Angela (MadamA Himmel): yes, it happens a lot and I
run the other way :)
[16:45] SylviaAurelia (SylviaAurelia Resident): One problem
I find with humiliation play, such as being stripped naked, is that unless I am
feeling the burning heat of embarrassment and the pounding of my heart, it's
not really working. But if someone has seen me naked a dozen times before, then
it doesn't really effect me the same any more. #
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): giggles
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Everyone gets
different reactions as You say, Miss. I
mean I've been butt naked around Xaara plenty of times. It has very little effect on me to be running
around naked here.
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now in First
Life...rather different lol
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Even though at
our club there is ZERO body shaming.
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone does that,
they're out...but we've never had an issue in my experience.
[16:47] Angela (MadamA Himmel): humiliation would be to be
fully dressed at Xaara Vanessa ? winks
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): giggles
[16:47] Lexis Evertied (Lexisevertied Resident): Oddly...
I'm actually a little self-conscious of my avi, so being naked in SL -does-
have an effect on me
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): No...NOT
CLOTHES!!
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sure
Lexis...everyone is different!
[16:48] Angela (MadamA Himmel): nods at Lexis
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And we all must
respect those choices.
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Miss
Sylvia!
[16:48] Angela (MadamA Himmel): that can have an affect,, I
agree with Lexis
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to the
lovely Kahlan please!
[16:48] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): Setting and
circumstances, time and place... all of these are factors in this play.
Something done in the privacy of your home and family can be just fine. Naked
at home while Beau calls me his slut and anything else he can think of. Though
Different set of circumstances: sending me off to be on the fountain but using
the same words 'time to pose, my slut' .... I would flat out die. There would
be no fun buzz like i got at home. It would send me into spirals questioning
things I thought were facts and have me shut down while I tried to
process. Switch it again, exact same
thing but I knew he was going to say it cause he wanted to get a reaction out
of someone else. Well that turns into another type of game. So making sure that everyone is on the
same page and understands the parameters is crucial. #
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100%
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): gives
Kahlan a huge star on her paper too
[16:49] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): nods in
agreement.
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All of that is
spot on Kahlan.
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Context is
critical.
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Very well said!
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go back to Sir
Johan for what is likely the last comment of the day please.
[16:50] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): It can also be used
to de-sensitize as well. I was involved with a submissive who due to
emotional/verbal abuse hated the word slut. H A T E D.
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nods
big time
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Being called a
'good slut' in the proper context....mmmmmmmmfffff.....*dreamy look*
[16:51] Angela (MadamA Himmel): I can see that Johan
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Call me a good
slut with NO proper context, knuckle sandwich time.
[16:52] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): smirks
memorably.
[16:52] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): #amen, lol
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So yes, time and
place matter big time.
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank You Sir!
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And thank Y/you
all very much for this intelligent conversation on this rather controversial
topic!
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What we do is
learn from each other and grow.
[16:53] Angela (MadamA Himmel): it was a delight Vanessa
[16:53] Tom (Zirsnveblis Resident): Thank you for the
discussion Vanessa
[16:54] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Thank you as
always for the wonderful discussions Vanni :)
[16:54] Hettange Ferryhill (Hettange Ferryhill): Excellent
discussion, Vanni.
[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please remember
Xaara in Y/your giving plans...tip jar is on the bar.
[16:54] Rune (FatedPickle Resident): Thank you so much,
Vanni :)
[16:54] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): And to everyone
else as well for your wonderful input!
[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back in two weeks
with another kinky topic!
