Being Risk-Aware -- November 1, 2026

 [16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Please note the next line:  Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As usual I have my usual exposition to start

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so as I yammer on a bit please put a C or a Q in the queue and then we'll get to the comments

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Two weeks ago our topic was "Third Party Consent" -- what are the ethical requirements about people our scenes in public?

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We had a rousing discussion on that and it is the current discussion archived on the blog.

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So, the questions for today for this august assembly are:

 

[16:54] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): smirks at Vanni's offer...

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): (the life of a switch..)

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): 1) Do we really need to be "risk aware" in a virtual world? and 2) If so, to what level?  The same as in First Life if we were doing a scene, or is some lesser form based on the people and the scene in question ok?  Would you do something here in SL you would never do in First Life?

 

[16:57] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I think that anybody who pretends that no harm can come in the activities that we or other people do is just fooling themselves .I have been personally harmed by such a cavalier attitude and I know of others that would as well I am not one of the people who believes that a first life is the only thing that's real in fact we have first life we have second life It's all life and it's all very real because the people doing it are real so I think that do care and risk awareness or critical elements in what we do even if it's just to be safe .

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree 100%

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm not going to ask but I will assume that most of us...maybe all...have felt some level of hurt over things that have occurred here.  I have, several times.

 

[16:59] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I think the second part of your question is just as important which is who decides And I think the person who decides is the person who can be hurt worse

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): how so?

 

[17:01] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I think that part of my negotiation and part of what all of those conversations are about is to determine what risk is there and what can I do as a practitioner to minimize that risk if that is taking extra time in order to be sure that my partner is comfortable with where we're going or if there's something else that needs to be discussed I don't take what somebody says in a profile for example like loving consensual non consent as just something that can stand alone I think that a thorough investigation of what could possibly be going on is worth every second when it comes to somebody's security and deriving real joy out of what we do

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, just because it's in a profile, it's not a "contract" or a simple set of instructions that will suffice.

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And god forbid it was an Ikea set of instructions...lol

 

[17:02] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): :)

 

[17:02] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): a whole new level of masochism

 

[17:02] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): hahahah

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Although I'd like to see the little Ikea guy with a flogger and a sub tied on an Ikea frame named "TORTUREDESK"

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ahem

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): sorry

 

[17:03] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu):  giggles

 

[17:03] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): rins

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne that is on spot on and I think very important to keep in mind.

 

[17:03] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *messages Catie 'a whole new thing to do with your gifted and talented burned out brat submissive with a praise kink'  Give them a set of Ikea instructions and then hide 3 of the pieces.

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): *all spot on

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!

 

[17:04] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): writes to Ikea...suggesting the name of a new furniture designer..

 

[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "I tortured her according to the instructions but there are three implements left.....now what..."

 

[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok ok let's get back on track or this will be the IKEA BDSM discussion

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Shayne great start!

 

[17:05] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Consid that a number of people were likely to encounter As we go through our second life we'll have BDSM sounding things in their profiles but turn out to be very ordinary vanilla people who were just trying to attract attention

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yep!

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Or are interested and know *nothing* about the lifestyle.

 

[17:05] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): nos

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but they watch a certain movie *coughs 50shadesofidiocy* and want to jump in

 

[17:06] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): bdsm ala "I watched 50 Shades, and now I tore a hole in my ceiling trying to install a swing"

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Damn it! *…Hands Johan a Coke for the jinx* :P

 

[17:06] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): GMTA :)

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks!  all good points!

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee we come to you please!

 

[17:06] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): For me not it IS necessary I apply the same things I do in my first life as I do here. I am creating real life feelings and such so why should my rules be different? Real harm also comes from not having them, look at all the Gorean escapees if you will who come to Xaara. I have experimented a little bit more here than maybe in real but that is also due to lack of access in rl. Who decides?  all participating parties in their negotiations

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some people...I doubt anyone here...but some people think "negotiation" is not necessary.  Why negotiate, just have fun!

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): They also think a 'Limit' is arbitrary and the "x" at the top is one's safeword.

 

[17:08] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I disagree, you do not go to a strange place without a map of some kind

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oooo...kinky GPS!

 

[17:09] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree Cee!

 

[17:09] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): They I submit they are losing out on the varied nuances of play #

 

[17:09] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): I looked up Hand and Foot once... and went to a Very Kinky place accidently!

 

[17:09] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): rofl

 

[17:10] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *tries to reprogram Sydney's Siri for her car* "Turn right ahead..   Good girl, you know Papa likes it when you follow directions."

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  laughs

 

[17:10] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): #

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): that was a different "hand and foot" Jenine :P

 

[17:10] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu):  giggles badly

 

[17:10] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *tuns around and smiles back at Sire*

 

[17:10] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): just slightly Mistress......

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): maybe had "tied" at the front...

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[17:11] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): The Hand and Foot when you KNOW you are going to be beaten by the Robots, but you like it that way

 

[17:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee, wise words, thank you!!

 

[17:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Jenine you are up!

 

[17:11] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): In a sense Risk Awareness is very real in SL since a lot of us are dealing with some form of Emotional damage or other issues that can hit triggers.

I have to be careful in that I still deal with triggers if someone comes on to strong or pushy in a way that hits my *wait... this is wrong* and I have to sort it a moment to decide if its that persons way of just being themselves or if I'm totally reading it wrong.

Its hard as it changes from day to day with me right now.  Yes we do have the X in the corner, but if its used Everytime something is said or done in here, how can we/I grow?

 

[17:12] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): You're never wrong following your heart and your "spider sense"

 

[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and especially...if something seems "off" and the other won't even discuss it...time to "run, not walk, to the nearest exit."

 

[17:13] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): *nods

 

[17:13] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): Exactly and its led to a lot of learning and growth for me

 

[17:13] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): *hugs Jenine

 

[17:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sadly sometimes we've had to experience something to really "get" it's wrong....I have done that a few times, not followed my "sense" and thought I could deal....led to hurt.

 

[17:14] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): I'm not the fragile girl I was when I first came here anymore, but I've Learned.... #

 

[17:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I love that Jenine!

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I can see the growth in you and it's great!

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♥

 

[17:15] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): i love it too Mistress, its amazing the difference!

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :)

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks for that Jenine!

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan we come to you please!

 

[17:15] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Sneak Attack! Wall of Text!    I think you hit all the nails right on the head in your preamble Vanni.

 

While we don't have the same level of risk physically as we would RL in a (for example) Suspension/Hook/Needle Play scene - we DO still have emotional and psychological risks and harm that can be associated with SL/Online Play.

 

So we SHOULD still be somewhat Risk Aware in regards to our own triggers and/or limits and communicate honestly and openly with our scene partners during the scene in case those do pop up on so, so we can avoid using the Big Red X if at all possible, and hopefully the caring Dominant will mitigate and go into care mode immediately if necessary.

 

As for exploring - there IS a difference between the fantasy and the reality.  At a Beltain campout I once decided "Sure, I'll let XXX Flog me.. I've always held the handle side, let me experience the receiving end..    I learned within 10 strokes that a 'high pain tolerance' is not the same as 'deriving pleasure from pain' .   So caveat emptor  #

 

[17:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): yes!

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think the good thing about SL is it allows us to explore things we might not (or simply can't) experience in First Life

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but absolutely risks and limits matter!

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's both vanilla and BDSM

 

[17:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): one night I was at a club (won't mention what club) and this guy sort of hit on me and wanted me to go home with him...and I was feeling needy so minus any further chat I went....

 

[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): First he says "call me Daddy" and before I could even get out "the only person I called Daddy was my actual Father" he also says "No birth control...Daddy intends to breed his little girl."

 

[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I was right out at that point.  He was not going to include me in his incest fantasy.

 

[17:20] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo):  facepalms.

 

[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Had we discussed it I never would have gone with him...so I was NOT risk aware enough!

 

[17:21] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu):  puts away my not so innocent dark thoughts at that...

 

[17:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): What people do within the TOS is their biz but that shows we need to be a *bit* careful about simply assuming the best of people...

 

[17:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And I think even more so with BDSM.

 

[17:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan great comment!  Thanks so much!

 

[17:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Hestia please!

 

[17:22] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Risk awareness.....yes, and easily, the emotionalntal aspects come to mind because that person at the keyboard is human, and words can be impactful. SO we should learn to use our words carefully and wisely.

 

Having said that.....you cannot always determine that emotionalntal status of the other person.

 

For me that is the main risk awareness. An astute person can swiftly pick out individuals whom are ...for lack of a better term....."unstable".  I tend to avoid those kinds of people because they can go from that victim mentality to viciously vindictive in a nanosecond. 

 

Sadly there are many individuals in SL, with emotionalntal problems. I have said it many times...SL is not the place to fix what is wrong with you. SL can be brutal and mean spirited....when it comes to the emotional aspects of our being.

 

Do in SL?, that is a wide area. Walking? flying? going into space? becoming a vampire? or are we talking SAY things you would never say in RL? If it is the latter...i find that SL allows me the time to choose my words more carefully, re read, and possibly change the wording if it comes across as too harsh. I tend to be blunt and a realist. #

 

[17:23] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *claps*

 

[17:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said!!

 

[17:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think the perceived lack of consequence SL (and social media as well) have allow people to say things and suggest things they would *never* do in face to face communication.

 

[17:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "I want to make my daughter pregnant, you're her, bend over."  Who would say such crap in First Life?

 

[17:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Here, "the b*ch left, find another."

 

[17:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I've written blogs on this very topic :P

 

[17:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But Hestia I really liked how you separated "saying" and "doing" in SL as they really are different things.

 

[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That was really a spot on comment!  Lots of wisdom here so far!  Thanks so much lovely Hestia!

 

[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Lyrah please!

 

[17:27] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I'd like to respond to Jenine's comment about having an "X" to shut down sl.  She said that if you use it every time, how can you grow?.

 

I feel that if negotiated properly with a vetted play partner who has integrity, and I am also a vetted play partner with integrity, then the necessity to have to escape a scene abruptly can be very preventable. 

 

I am so glad to hear that Jenine indeed HAS grown in her journey.

I think all of us do.  Unfortunately for those who don't have or who don't feel the need to educate themselves on how to use the tools of our lifestyle culture to prevent problems from occurring, they do fall deeply into the pit of risks actually coming to fruition.

 

Being "Risk Aware" is actually something I LOVE about this lifestyle.  I didn't have a healthy protocol for how to avoid those risks in my vanilla days.  I knew what the risks were, but I didn't have the confidence nor words to say in order to vet someone, or negotiate intimacy needs, or to get out of a situation I'd regretted as it occurred.

I love that in our community consent and negotiation are as important and assumed as they are, as well as aftercare.  There are so many tools we have that are implied in BDSM that aren't in vanilla.  I actually find BDSM safer for play.  Thank you.#

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hear hear!  *claps*

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's all well said and shows the necessity of vetting and negotiating things.

 

[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very well said Lyrah, thanks for that excellent contribution!

 

[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Y'all are spot on today I love it. We need more post-Halloween discussions :P

 

[17:30] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): Thank you.

 

[17:30] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): that is very true Lyrah, SL for me started as the Only outlet for social connection after being isolated for a long time with my job I had..

 

[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): nods at Jenine

 

[17:31] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu):  smiles

 

[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a friend who is homebound due to medical issues and SL is her entire social world

 

[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Alsedel please!

 

[17:31] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Not being aware of the risk or not being situationally aware is like driving 70 mph, in a convertible with no seat belt through Rome. It complainant on you to be aware.  The consequences are emotional here.  This is not RL the keyboard hides and allows so much. SL is filled with predators and mentally deranged people along with amazing ones. So if it looks like  a duck walks like a duck .. Chances are its a duck not prince or princess charming. #

 

[17:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!  It seems the SL and X/Twitter share a lot of the same people lol...some great ones and, to be charitable, some "really not so great ones that make one want to wind sprint away"

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And it really is on us to protect ourselves.  People can easily not be what they seem.  Fronts and facades are easy to put up.

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Not that we have to be paranoid!  Just careful!

 

[17:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): or Risk Aware

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed!

 

[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): too bad there isn't a "risk quotient" above our heads lol

 

[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Oh lord she's a 9, he's an 8"...

 

[17:35] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): You say "Risk Quotient" some say "Oooh Bad Boy must touch the flames" meter.

 

[17:35] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): You mean like the spanking titlers some wear

 

[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh similar Alsedel and that's such a good point Johan!

 

[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but that's really a different topic...why are some good people attracted to obviously not so good people....

 

[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): which may well be a future topic here!

 

[17:36] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): smiles, i´ll look forward to it

 

[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Alsedel!

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We go back to Cee please!

 

[17:37] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): Actually, I find the BDSM here in Sl, especially in Xaara to be a model for our RL dealings. Many people I meet in real have fantasies of being kinky. I have been in the lifestyle 35 years and was raised right if you will but if I were coming into the scene now my ethics and rules in SL would serve me very well in the real world

 

[17:37] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *claps*

 

[17:37] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): #

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Xaara is very much like my RL BDSM place....both are education forward, and very much based on protecting people

 

[17:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some in the Los Angeles scene don't like coming to our club as we're known to have vigilant DMs (Dungeon Monitors, not Masters, oh game geeks like me!) :P that stop scenes if they are out of our bounds

 

[17:38] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I live in a very small community in rural Colo and so have no real community

 

[17:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think while Xaara isn't that strict we definitely push education and safety while many other places don't or pay it some lip service.

 

[17:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That was well said Cee!  Thanks :)

 

[17:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): do we have any other comments or questions on this topic?

 

[17:40] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): other than Risk Assessment is something learned and a lot to be gained from!

 

[17:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Amen!

 

[17:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Not enough to put a C in, but I love that we are all generally on the same page if not the exact same note of sheet music regarding the topic :)

 

[17:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Go ahead Shayne!

 

[17:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and yes I agree Johan, but we are the cream of the crop, the rice on top, uh...leaves out dirty next line

 

[17:42] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *takes psychic damage from the lyric*

 

[17:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[17:42] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Yes I agree with UH Jo I think that it is very significant that we have that orientation and I'm happy to say actually it is surprising how many of the people that I encounter typically in other places in Second Life really wonder why I put such an emphasis on consent and on taking care of them when they seem to just want to get beat up it's that many of them will be

 

[17:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have to save vs Wall of Text regularly!

 

[17:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed

 

[17:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): they just see this as a "game" where their little avatar can be shot and killed and just "respawns" to start again

 

[17:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): they can have their view, I stay away from that

 

[17:44] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): me too

 

[17:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said and I agree with your thinking Shayne!

 

[17:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sarah please!

 

[17:44] Sarah (SarahBabon Resident): i'm glad to be here engaging in awareness on particular topics within the D/s community.

 

[17:44] Sarah (SarahBabon Resident): #

 

[17:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We think it very important Sarah!

 

[17:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We can have fun and be safe.

 

[17:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks!

 

[17:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Any other final comments?

 

[17:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok then, excellent "kicking the can" around!  Thank you all and see you here in two weeks.  Johan's "Easy like a Sunday Morning" is next Sunday at eight!

Third Party Consent -- October 18, 2026

 [15:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok it's time, let's get started

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have some exposition to start us off

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so as I ramble on a bit drop a C or a Q in the queue and then we'll get to comments and questions

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Since we started with this set of discussions in March, we have gone through the entire BDSM paradigm step by step.  We finished that two weeks ago.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Now we move to more general topics

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we discuss the idea of "Third Party Consent"

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): This idea suggests that when we do a scene that is 100% consensual between the parties *directly* involved, the consent of people around also needs to be taken in to consideration.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): For example, when we were talking about the "Brat" style submissive...

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Even if the Dominant who owns and controls said "Brat" is 100% fine with the bratty behavior...does the Brat get to do their thing in public where others will see it.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As they may not get it and become annoyed

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think we all agree if I started flogging a bottom at the local Costco, that would be out of bounds.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Although it would be my kind of "sample booth" really...

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:44] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident):  giggles

 

[15:44] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  looks for the tenderized rump roast

 

[15:44] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "Attention Costco Shoppers, we have a special demonstration on Paddles today taking place in our Meat Department"

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): What about here at Xaara though?

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We are clearly an adult-rated, BDSM sim.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): How much expectation is there, if any, that we should curtail our BDSM activities in public here?

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Do we need to ask visitors if they mind seeing a sub leashed, or people dressed in provocative outfits?  Or calling their Dominant "Master" or "Mistress?"  Is consent implied when they arrive here?

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So, that's the question for today...is Third Party Consent something we have to take serious concern over?  If so, where and in what bounds?  And if vanillas come to Xaara, how careful do we have to be, or do we at all?

 

[08:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): And...how does this translate to First Life?  If I want to do something sorta kinky out in public, do I have to ask people first?  Or is it my problem if there's an issue?

 

[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): ooo lots of Cs!  I love it!

 

[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): ok Nawa we will start with you when ready!

 

[08:48] Nawa (moringward82): I get Irked /irritaded by Brats, not when they are roleplaying with their Brat Tamers i they own consentual Dynamic, but when they inadvertently involve others that have not consented to it and that happens a lot, I can say from my experience Brats are usually the One role that i see mostly breaking consent with third parties. I love to see good bratting, when this is consentual, and in the correct setting, read the room. #

 

[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): I get that, it can be a bit....frustrating with the really "serious" brats...I think general bratting isn't a problem though, and has to fall into the "we all have our thing".

 

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): But I do want to point out this is more than just brats....

 

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): As an example, a few years ago during the Xmas Tree lighting ceremony we do every year

 

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): this guy shows up, sees the community about the tree and submissives kneeling

 

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): and he goes into a TIZZY

 

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): "Why are these submissives kneeling?  They're HUMAN!  This is an outrage to their persons!"

 

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): We were like..."dude...do you know where you are?"

 

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): he left in a huff

 

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): so did we need to explain to him he might have the HORROR of subs kneeling here?

 

[08:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): I just don’t want to focus on bratty behavior; we did that a few weeks ago :P

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Nawa!!

 

[15:52] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  eyes gleam "burn welcome mat at his feet?"

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Rachel, you're up please!

 

[15:52] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): I just had a small comment.  Xaara has been a really really safe zone for me and I have no fears of others doing things to me without consent...I think there might need extra thoughts of doing anything without consent especially to those that are skittish to begin with.

 

[15:53] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): As far as what visitors see when they get here...they should have expected a BDSM community with leashes, titles of Master/Mistress...but since they are visitor any interaction beyond that I say has to be consent.

 

[15:53] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Miss Vanni if you want to do First Life Kink in public...just remember the RL laws...grins #

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Naturally!

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): In a few weeks we'll do the talk on "Stealth BDSM" again...and how you can be kinky under the noses of the vanillas! :P

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And I do think we agree that getting anyone involved in a scene requires their consent...I can't just go up and start flogging someone

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But some have argued "if they come here they need to give consent to *see* things."

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and that's the crux for today

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Rachel!

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan we come to you please!

 

[15:55] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *Roll for Save Vs. Johan's Wall of Text*

 

[15:55] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): This is a subject near and dear to my heart, and I think there is room for nuance.  For example - its well known this is a BDSM and D/s centric Adult SIM.  I believe there is an expectation of play to be witnessed (Leashed, kneeling, use of Honorifics/Protocols, etc.)    But I also think there are certain expectations of what is considered inappropriate as well.  For Bondage A GoGo you might see in addition to the above more explicit forms of Bondage up to and including sexual play, that might not be as appropriate at the Fountain Gathering or during the Angel/Seraph Ceremonies, or during the Vannis' Koffee KLatch (Feel free to do so publicly during my Easy Like a Sun Morning Set )

To add - in our Guidelines and Rules we expect everyone to be "Respectful" - and to a point sometimes the public Bratting play becomes publicly disrespectful.  What do we do at that point?     In my opinion, we CAN ask/expect to say something IF it becomes disrupting. But otherwise if its not a disruption - we all can use the Mute/Block button freely. #

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hey I don't mind a good sex scene during Klatch...but remember, I'm the East German judge..."no...9.3 only on form, not 10." :P

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): also I've mentioned this before...

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): a few years ago when we were still doing the big Sunday night discussions at the Pier, a couple just started having sex in one of the chairs

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): they said nothing in chat, but they got naked and went at it in the middle of a discussion

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I looked to see if Laz or Jamesen or anyone would say something but nope...they just went at it and we kept going!

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so it has happened!

 

[15:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Yes, I probably should have been more specific of "in local chat" vs. just animation too :)   Great Point!

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): it was interesting to say the least

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but one other point to consider...we do have sex chairs here, at the Pier (or have) and other kinky things about the sim

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and the owners have said "open play is fine"....

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so I guess it's the community that decides how open is open

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Johan!

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia you're up please!

 

[16:00] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): NOTE: the RP play observed at Bondage A GOGO last night was thrilling to observe. Well done, hot..and respectful but erotic and sensual at every turn.

This is an Adult rated, BDSM Sim. Thus consideration of the A aspect ..means open sexuality is on display, or can be on display. BDSM might need its own explanation, as some of the Vanilla world does not grasp its full depth and culture.

 

However...if one follows the website, one of the implied tenants is "respect" . This not only means respect by those observing, but respect demonstrated by those observed.

 

IF deep humiliation is your thing, fine, but respect that it might not be everyone’s thing, and if you try to "force" it upon observers, expect to be rebuffed in some manner. There is, of course, a time and place for everything. Me...i simply get up and leave with no comment.

 

One would not take kindly to bad behaviour or a sudden display of open intercourse during the Seraph Ceremony. Or having your "piggie on a leash" suddenly walk on the stage during an XA show. #

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said!

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  sighs and scratches off "Open Intercourse at Seraph Graduation" from the bucket list

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :P

 

[16:02] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): well darn

 

[16:02] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): laughs in RL!

 

[16:02] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  grins "before is okay Miss Vanni"

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh oh ok!

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  rewrites

 

[16:02] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "We can always pretend a ceremony is going on.." chuckles.

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): that was all well said Hestia

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and I think "know your audience" is important

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The website is pretty clear, "Xaara has few rules, we expect everyone to be adults."

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If it were just that easy!!

 

[16:03] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  mumbles "and your partner in sex"

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ha!

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I hope so!

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): 15 will get you 20 years, ya know

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Hestia!

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Salis we come to you please!

 

[16:04] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): At Xaara, as long as we follow any sim rules, or TOS rules, consent from people around do not need to be consulted.  I would also note that I almost never see any real BDSM play going on here. Anyone in SL has the power to block someone at any time. #

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It is pretty rare that anything beyond leashing, kneeling and such "fairly light" stuff goes on openly

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We have playrooms for that and they're pretty lightly used too

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I guess people go home for the flogging and intercourse

 

[16:06] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): a well done public scene is always a joy to observe.

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think you made a good point that as long as we follow the basic rules we're good Salis

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh yes!!!!

 

[16:06] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "That would be a whole wonderful discussion topic I think Vanni, I know Chew had it briefly the other night during the Chew Chat but an in depth one of 'what we expect in public play at a BDSM centric SIM"

 

[16:06] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:06] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): HERE HERE!!!! YES and Yeah varily and forsooth!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): could be a good one!

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): with a demo!

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): any volunteers?

 

[16:07] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): gets in the volunteer line

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok before we get a bunch of wet panties, let's move on :P

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Salis!

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sydney dear you are up please!

 

[16:08] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): Playful short respectful bratting might be ok without 3rd party consent... by short I mean not going on and on ... if the brat is expressing herself in a borderline disrespect or might be embarrassing to her Dom or other Doms/subs around ... it will probably cross the line with others nearby and should not occur. #

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I totally agree Sydney!

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): See there have been some people that have argued "if people have to SEE the scene, they need to give consent"

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Not saying I agree but that has been a point made over the years

 

[16:10] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Sim rules Rule

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a second story I’ll tell later as I want to keep the queue moving but I'll want your opinions when we get to it

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much Sydney! ♥

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Mr. Darrow we are up to you please!

 

[16:11] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): Thank you Vanni- I opine this needs to be taken in context, if one is in a RL Club, then one expects to see RL sexuality- if in Costco- No.

 

Similarly if one is on an adult sim in SL one should expect to see SL sexuality, if you are offended by SL sexuality do not frequent an Adult sim.  The idea that any of us should moderate our SL sexuality to appease others is them kink shaming because of their mindset-that they should determine what is acceptable.  Yet I acknowledge as I began - context is important. (more)

 

[16:12] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): Another thought-in my opinion males tend to abuse women more in IM, then they would dare do in nearby.  By embracing a mentality that we should keep anything past R rated in private, fosters such abuse.  (done)

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree totally with your first point, context is key and we need to all be adults.

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But to be sure I understand the second

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If we tell people "keep your R+ talk in IM" then they have an avenue for abuse....but aren't they just abusive anyway?

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I get the point and approve but I'm not sure how us saying "say what you want openly" would reduce the sick behavior?

 

[16:16] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): as far as abuse goes, even as submissives we need to remember our responsibility to ourselves, if someone gets in private and you do not consent you have to end it (unless I am misunderstanding)

 

[16:16] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): My humble opinion if we are more accepting of open sexuality then abusers will go to another place where they can be in hiding.

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ahhh!

 

[16:17] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Its an interesting thought, and I think I can see it in a manner of speaking. There are people who will behave respectfully and gentlemanly in public - then a complete Monster in private (non-consensual)  who then fall back on the defense of "They were never that way when I saw them... she's making things up"

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, I understand, thanks for the clarification and the thoughts :)

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very good point Mr. Darrow and thanks for the thoughts on it Emma and Johan.  We want NO abuse here at Xaara.  Zero tolerance.

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said and thank you :) ♥

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Emma we come to your comment please

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): here goes lol

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): I had typed my comment up others have kind of said my thoughts somewhat - I think it is a question of respect and expectation. (I have a wall of chat - sorry - I ramble, but this is an important topic I think, I've postponed weekend sale shopping!)

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): When someone comes to a place like Xaara, I believe it's implied consent on what goes on (within set rules and it's up to the person to find out what those are) and they are obligated to respect that or they can go somewhere else. On the opposite side of it, when someone lifestyle goes somewhere where there are different rules & expectations, they should do the same. (my personal experience here in SL has been quite one sided in that).

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): To put it RL terms - you would expect to see leashes, kneeling, awesome leathers & fetish-wear at Hellfire Club in NYC, but not at Tavern on the Green (and odds are they'd make you leave if you tried).

 

[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): I realize this is SL and there are differences of course and more extremes we can safely experience but if we are true in our beliefs about how we live in any life, why would we not want to show people a respectful & true side of a lifestyle with so many misconceptions even here? #

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We appreciate your restraint...on shopping...more restraint let's negotiate :P

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And yes....time, place and context is all super important.

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I was asked to leave Muddy's a couple times because the host/ess thought my "dress was too short" and I had to change or leave....their rules, their show.

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): if I walked in there wearing a harness showing off my bobbiez they'd have a heart attack, and I'd get 30 IMs

 

[16:21] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): and banned

 

[16:22] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): many mainstream clubs actually have written rules against displaying leashes and such

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But at the same time, coming to an Adult BDSM sim and screaming about "kneeling subs!" like Mr. Christmas Tree did is just as absurd as me going to Muddy's in a harness

 

[16:22] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): i once got asked to leave a club because i had GOR groups in my list of groups!!!

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): yes they do Cyan

 

[16:22] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): thats taking vanilla touch far IMO

 

[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's just silly IMO Hestia

 

[16:23] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I mean going to a place in silks with a "Kajira" title...ok maybe

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but just a group?  come on

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Emma that was spot on and I have made two saves vs "Wall of Text" today :P

 

[16:24] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident):  was asked to hide her dirty groups before she could arrive at a specific sim once

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I just wouldn't go there

 

[16:24] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): thank You

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): sensible rules are fine....that's just silly

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa back to you please

 

[16:24] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): I would like to give a few examples that have happened to me here in Xaara,i have just pushed it behind me, and now have a little pick on my Profile that clearly states i do not allow Fantasy Pushing. The first example was, someone i had never met or spoken to neither Public/IM chat, approaches me and tells me to kneel and kiss his feet. Reactions instant block. I believe in building rapport, sorry, sue me im not a real submissive as i´ve read before. The second one was someone making a full on description of what they´d do to me, bound in a latex suit in various predicament positions..etc. reaction - no thank you, again rapport and i don´t know you or have a consensual dynamic with you. third, in a class someone started bratting when others shared their personal stories or experiences.... a big NO for me,  i found that extremely rude/disruptive to everyone present, but since no one else said anything and i was fairly new and still am to the Sim, my reaction was getting up and leave the classroom. Now if you think these examples have broken my consent or not, that is entirely your opinion of what has happened, We all have boundaries we do not allow others to cross, I behave in SL the same way i behave in RL i respect everyone and expect respect in return as long as i/you do not involve others physically/personal by placing them directly in play without consent everyone should be fine and happy to live their dynamics and roles. #

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa, I agree in those scenarios you gave, that was just pure disrespect to you as a person

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Submissives....and women...are NOT some dood's masturbation tool

 

[16:26] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Unless they consent to be that :)

 

[16:27] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): consent, key word

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And over the years I've had similar things in my IM box and I've just muted instantly with no reply

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh sure....for the right person and time and place I might be a really dirty slut....*grins*

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but context matters!

 

[16:27] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Exactly - and Nawa if that happens - blocking/muting, and even reporting them to SIM Management are all good responses :)

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and just going from "Hi" to a wall of text of what you want to do to me.....BZZZZZZZT

 

[16:28] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): a good witty comback often shuts them up. Guy sent me a dick pick...said he would love to see a pick of my vagina. I told him to look in the mirror cause he was clearly a Giant twat..

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!

 

[16:28] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  hands Hestia a gold star

 

[16:29] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *makes a note of that*

 

[16:29] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lol

 

[16:29] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): it was a fugly dick pick too! hehe

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If I WANT to see your thang I'll say so!

 

[16:29] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): (not sure why the ugly ones are usually the ones they want to show off?)

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ego problems

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lack of self esteem

 

[16:30] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): only pick they could show?

 

[16:30] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think my favorite I've seen was someone asked if 'they could talk to it" and the guy said yes.. so they replied with a Gif of Dory from Finding Nemo saying "Hey little guy"

 

[16:30] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): snorts with laughter

 

[16:30] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lolol

 

[16:30] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa excellent points!  And sorry you've had that happen here.  But it's an open sim and we do get some of the bottom feeders.

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Autumn thanks for waiting you are up

 

[16:31] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I know I have some kinks that wouldn't appeal to everything, so personally, I do my best to limit certain things, say certain Honorifics when in a group where I don't know everyone, because I don't want to accidentally trigger someone.  Now, somethings vary based on where in SL, or say, even where in Xaara I am.  Some of it to me is as simple as read the room.  I remember in Gor a couple times, girls showing their "need" during formal events, and that is just not the time or place.  But to go to a BDSM sim of any kind, you have to know you are consenting to being around adult themes, it would be like going to a BDSM club in RL and getting offended.  So, there are a lot of factors that come into play, which is why I tend to be more cautious in large groups, read the room, and try not to upset anyone.  #

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said!!

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And believe it or not, a few times over  the years at my RL club, we have had a few new folks show up and get all bent out of shape over scenes they found "distasteful"

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): They were told "go look elsewhere or leave"

 

[16:33] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident):  shakes my head

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the young guys who showed up and thought we were a sex club were funny though

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "what's going on here...I thought we'd get laid?"

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the Dungeon Monitor said "no but you might get whipped, kid."

 

[16:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Meanwhile in my book, I wrote a scene where someone took the FMC to a BDSM Club and he was shocked that there wasn't orgies going on everywhere

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): JINX!

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): art mirrors life, Johan!

 

[16:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *subtle plug you can find my book on KindleU for free*

[16:35] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): get you laid? we are BDSM club, not miracle workers

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL Princess

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  perks at "plug" then settles back in her chair

 

[16:35] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): I went to a RL playparty at a Domme's house, was a regular monthly thing - rules were no sex....sex happened in the room one day - I was a bit put off to be honest lol, I just left the room

 

[16:35] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): but her house her rules

 

[16:35] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): even in on premise swing clubs ...consent is requireed...everywhere but the orgy room (RL experience here)

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yeah we only allow penetrative sex at very specific parties

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): known in advance

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  makes a few notes to speak to Hestia later...

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :P

 

[16:36] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): giggles....am an open book!

 

[16:36] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): yeah...like being "innocent"?

 

[16:36] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): snorts

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): of what exactly?

 

[16:36] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): shhh Rachel!

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Autumn excellent comment!

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks! ♥

 

[16:37] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): grins

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to wombi with a question

 

[16:38] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): What is implied consent and how does this apply here? If you participate in activities, active consent is needed. To watch is giving implied "implied consent". Although, knowing the event you are at. Play is fine, just not in the middle of a discussion. Apropo should be the rule. Also, there should be a warning about "3rd party consent" for visitors. "You may see active BDSM ..." #

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think "Implied Consent" is "if you come to an Adult BDSM sim that is labeled that way in search, you are consenting to dealing with what you see here or leaving."

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Does anyone else think that works or is more or less needed?  (no C just answer please)

 

[16:40] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): Sadly common sense is not so common especially in SL - but do the problem happen often enough to merit more details given?

 

[16:40] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think it works.  Its the same as nude beaches.  go to a nude beach, expect to see nude avi's

 

[16:40] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol, i was just about to say the same Emma

 

[16:40] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): People are idiots. Don't understand "implied" means to them. lol

 

[16:40] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): agreed wombi...people can be incredibly dim

 

[16:40] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I agree, implied consent, for me, means I will leave if something happens that I wasn't expecting.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Stupidity cannot be cured by legislation or education."  -- Robert Heinlein

 

[16:41] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): go to Japan, expect to see people kneeling eating their sushi

 

[16:41] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): I agree with you Vanni, if you land on an Adult sim, you have consented to adult themes, as you said about folks getting offended at a RL Club: new folks show  up and get all bent out of shape over scenes they found "distasteful"

“Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): They were told "go look elsewhere or leave"”

 

[16:42] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Good question my friend!   So we teach the class on "Consent"  which in many BDSM terms we consider consent to be 'explicit'.   (Updating the course soon hopefully to include CCCC model of consent).  So for BDSM activities themselves there is a specific discussion of what is going to occur, and what each party agrees to.    However, Implied Consent does not necessarily apply to BDSM/kink - scenes itself but more of a general idea.   Sydney and I are in a consensual relationship - we agreed beforehand (and often and regularly update our consent) - but there are some things we have 'tacitly' implied are ok.  Her kneeling at my feet, her defering to me as her Dominant, etc. and as Vannis said, when you are in certain space - there is a expectation of social behavior one agrees to in that space.

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Like Emma said..."Our house our rules"...

 

[16:42] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): (sorry recently saw a meme - I'm told I need anger management? , how about setting up some stupid management?)

 

[16:42] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): Ran into a situation where someone was doing RP in chat at an event that was not appropriate. I just left, since it was in an area that I didn't like. I left

 

[16:42] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): that is what i do wombi. i just leave

 

[16:43] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): or i block them!

 

[16:43] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): WE do it, others go full "Karen/Kyle" mode. lol

 

[16:43] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): we already have enough stupid management in Washington

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We always need to remember that what I or we think is "inappropriate" isn't what everyone else might think is "inappropriate" there

 

[16:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): ooh thts a good way to put it, Implied consent is like TOS.  You agree to it when you sign up/show up

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok so I have a short story to end us

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I want your opinions on this

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and a couple of you *may* have heard this

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So a number of years ago I was at a workshop at a local BDSM expo

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and a Dom guy was explaining this thing he did with his sub

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): she LOVES being objectified and humiliated in public

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): totally consensual and she gets really turned on

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so they would go to a restaurant (as an example he gave)

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and he wouldn't let her see a menu

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and when the server came up he would order first for himself

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): then point at his girl and say "IT will have the chicken pasta, and IT will have the garden salad, and IT will have a glass of chardonnay"

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and she said she would get all wet hearing that

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but when I've told this story some people get upset

 

[16:49] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Why?

 

[16:49] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Because of the use of IT

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "The server didn't consent.  The people in the restaurant didn't consent.  How could they do that?"

 

[16:49] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): the server

 

[16:49] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so what think y'all?

 

[16:50] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I think if he just ordered for her, with out the use of IT, it would be fine, but by using IT, you are including the server, and that's not ok

 

[16:50] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): because in todays society, it would be seen as borderline abuse of a woman.  and in terms of our chat, it was borderline forcing a kink upon someone whom did not consent to be involved...?

 

[16:50] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): brings up my other thought of the recipient wanting the abuse

 

[16:50] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): I might have broken many times the consent of Waiters in RL

 

[16:50] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter):  agrees with Autumn

 

[16:50] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think I agree that the server didn't consent.  And you could be setting yourself up for "issues" by being asked to leave, etc.

 

[16:50] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident):  thinks the server did not agree to become part of this roleplay, they shuld not be required to listen to it

 

[16:50] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes, because how is the server to know she consented to that, I would first assume abuse as a server

 

[16:51] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:51] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): and reinforces the misconceptions of lifestyle being abuse among those who do not understand as well

 

[16:51] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): wrong place and time in my opinion to do that scene

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): All very good points!

 

[16:51] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Great point Emma!

 

[16:51] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): thank you :)

 

[16:51] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): RL? That idiot was pushing to go to jail. A simple explanation  of "We are doing some RP as a Master and servant". would have helped.

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but (and this was his counter) how could they do it minus just doing it....

 

[16:51] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): this is a very close call for Me---I fall on the side of the use of the word "it" ~ It is too strong of a word to use in vanilla Public; if He said "she" then that falls on the OK side,

 

[16:51] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): i consider it disrespectful but does it cross the line and needs consent?

 

[16:52] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Even could have used They instead of it, and it would have been ok

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I do think that's fine at the club btw, not at a restaurant

 

[16:52] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident):  agrees with Toby

 

[16:53] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Firstly I agree with everyone - but to counterpoint, that could be a scale of egregiousness.  Referring to a person as "It" is between the two and they didn't force the waiter and other patrons to also refer to her as 'it'  - so its really not much difference than if he'd walked her in on a leash or made her kneel by the table out of the way.

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): in fact I've used that line at our club during FemDom parites..."IT will get me a diet coke" and subs go running to comply :P

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That was his logic Johan

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "I'm not making them say anything to her.”

 

[16:54] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I just think in today's society of the "easily offended"  you are setting yourself up for issues...

 

[16:54] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I personally wouldn't do that. Nor do I think Sydney would agree or consent to it,   but its one of those If I were the waiter I'd probably talk shit about them later.

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Likely

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It sort of encapsulates the whole idea of "third party consent" so it's why I tell it

 

[16:54] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): personally I am always in any situation not wanting to make anyone uncomfortable even for my own pleasure or displeasure - so deep no for me

 

[16:55] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident):  nods in agreement with Emma

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): All good points!

 

[16:55] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Because we also are assuming whether the waiter was bothered by it..  I don't think the other patrons in the restuarant would even be aware unless he was LOUDLY using "IT"

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): he didn't say what the server said

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): or did or thought

 

[16:56] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): and the waiter may have gotten over it with a big enough tip? ;-)

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): likely the server just looked at them, thought "weirdos" and kept working

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Food servers see and deal with a lot of strange people!

 

[16:57] Gɾαcєє Lєє (Magen Miles): c to Cyan "yes I remember days we could have a respectful discussion on having different views then a peer and it not turn into offended"

 

[16:57] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident):  nods

 

[16:57] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): Maybe they were already into a D/s relationship and was heavy into BDSM? lol

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the Dom guy and his girl I was talking about, Wombi?

 

[16:58] Gɾαcєє Lєє (Magen Miles): It was something also mentioned at Master Chews Chat how our society easily offened now #

 

[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): If I were the waiter (and not into kink) I would think to myself "what in the 'it puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets eczema again" is going on?"

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lolol

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): well remember we kick the can around here, not solve world peas

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): any final comments?

 

[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Mmmm whirled peas

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):  giggles

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok thank you all for commenting and being here!

 

[16:59] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): it all comes down to respect. :)

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): See you here in two weeks!

 

[16:59]  (Jack O' Lantern Discussion Tracker): Thank you for attending this discussion.

 

[16:59]  (Jack O' Lantern Discussion Tracker): The tracker is now off and the floor is open to everyone.

 

[16:59] Violet Stuer (Violet Stuer): Many thanks, Miss Vanessa

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed Hestia!

 

[16:59] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Great discussion Vanni!  I've been anxiously awaiting this topic to hear it :)

 

[16:59] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): now where is that spanking line????? are there treats????

 

[16:59] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): Thanks E/everyone for the great discussion!

 

[16:59] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh well we'll have the demo in a few weeks :P

 

[16:59] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): Thank you A/all - I've learned a lot and have new things to consider!

 

[16:59] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Thank you Miss Vanni and E/everyone...great discussion