[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The usual blurb
follows....
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions
are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if
you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually
directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract
either your C or your Q. If a person has
a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @
[name]"
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in
the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a
person's comment to the top. The
handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks
a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply,
replies to the question will be open.
Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep
extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for
this Klatch can be found here:
https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/
It houses current and many older discussions.
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of
the way, we'll begin.
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This is the last
discussion in the "BDSM" acronym series
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): when we gather in
two weeks we'll start a series of more general discussions
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but as knowledge
builds on knowledge, what we have discussed here will inform future discussions
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so don't hit
'erase!' 😉
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we discuss
a very misunderstood kind of submissive....The Brat
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): After
"Babygirls" which we discussed last week, Brats tend to cause the
most consternation.
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): There is a very
deep love/hate kind of feeling toward Brats
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A Brat is not
just a 'cheeky sub'
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A Cheeky sub has
a sense of humor, might say some off the wall, sarcastic things, or have some
interesting behaviors that could rub people the wrong way, but doesn't take
things to the level of The Brat.
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Brats are also
often referred to by others as "Attention Whores"
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Which may be in a
way true, as Brats are usually finding new and improved ways to keep their
Dominant on their toes and "make things more fun"...involving some
new screwball kind of behavior.
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So the attention
to detail is often the important parthere
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): An example I've
used before.....
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Master HottDude
says to his Bratty slave "Go make me coffee"
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Slave says
"Yes Master!" and runs into the kitchen
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He can smell the
coffee brewing and smiles.
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ten minutes
later, she comes back in the living room minus coffee, and plops back on the
couch..
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Y'all can see
where this is going..
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Master HottDude
says "Hey...where's my coffee?"
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She looks back
with an incredulous look and says, loudly, "WELL YOU SAID to *make*
coffee. You didn't say you want any!"
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫
rimshot ♫
[15:48] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): smiles
and nods.
[15:48] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): giggles
[15:49] Mal (Pwnography Resident): Not the coffee
[15:49] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): looks
innocent
[15:49] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): i may or may not
have done that before..
[15:49] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): what did he
expect from a brat
[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So unlike the
smart-alek, cheeky sub, the Brat is always looking for a new and improved way
to "make things more fun" and keep the activity rolling.
[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Dominants that
can't handle Brats are completely perplexed by this....WHY would a Dominant
want to put up with such a person who is endlessly finding ways to contravene
orders or do insane things?
[15:50] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood):
Emotional masochism?
[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That said...Brats
are misunderstood by people so perplexed.
[15:51] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): they are not
insane things, brats have a higher IQ than the mass, hence they seem insane ;p
[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): They do intend to
obey and serve...but what I have been told by Brats and read on their worldview
is something like this..."I will obey but not to anyone. Why should I just 'obey' in a mindless, rote
way? Make me obey and I will."
[15:52] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *sighs happily*
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and the kind of
Dom that appreciates Brats are the ones
that like beig 'kept on their toes' so to speak, so they have to find new and
improved ways to gain that obedience.
[15:52] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): shakes
my head
[15:53] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): A mental battle
challenge?
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and of course
before I turn things over....what people
consesually do is their biz. If a sub is
a Brat or not, or a Dom wants to have a
Brat as a sub or not, is all their personal choice. As long as things are SSC and fall under RACK
and PRICK rules, what people do is their concern and all we really want here is
understanding and happiness for everyone.]
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So with all that
said....
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The questions for
the August Assembly today are: 1) Are YOU a Brat, and if so, what
"excitement" do you like bringing your Dominant (or, if you are not
one, what zany stuff have you seen Brats do?) and 2) If You are a Dominant who
likes Brats, or dislikes them, why? What is it about a Brat that either
attracts You or instantly repels You?
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and of course we
do this in a spirit of understanding
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Shae you can
start us when you're ready
[15:56] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow):
"Brat" is as close as anything to an accurate term for my submissive
style
[15:57] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): The main
thing it brings my D type is amusement and a way to initiate some display of
dominance
[15:57] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): Rather
than passively waiting to be dominated. If that makes sense
[15:57] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): *done*
[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, I have had
Brat subby friends say "it keeps the connection going as They have to find
a new way to control my behavior"
[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): rahter than how
they see "instant expected obedience"
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I’m sort of
paraphrasing here of course
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good start! Thanks Shae!
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Kat
please
[16:00] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): For me, there's a visceral
delight in being able to radically realign a brat's attitude... the little meep
when my hand goes for a nearby sharp pointy thing and I give her a LOOK
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and the audible
"gulp"
[16:00] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): meeps
[16:00] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): exactly
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hee hee
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent!
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much
Kat!
[16:01] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): It's a
dialogue, of sorts
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Aithne
please!
[16:01] Aithne (Dryantillae Resident): no I do not consider
myself a brat ... If a Dominant prefers their sub that way, I believe that to
be their business...I love to please and if my Master wants a coffee, I wish to
please Him ..I am new here but I would like to also ask a question ..can a
slave also be a brat or is that more for a sub?
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone can answer
her question if you wish
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): no C please just
answer
[16:02] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): nods.
That's a very good question, Aithne. The short is yes, a slave can be a brat,
so long as that's the dynamic that their Master enjoys.
[16:03] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): yes one can be both.... brat is my slave &
also... a brat
[16:03] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): The answer is the
choice of the Dom/Domme and the sub, slave. I know of a few slaves that are
bratty.
[16:03] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): I believe
it's about tendencies - no one has to fit in a nice neat little box. P/people who know me best would say I'm more
slave at times, more babygirl at other times, more non-human role/pet at times,
and brat sometimes too. Labels aren't
the be-all, end all, and people can be anything. :)
[16:03] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): i think people
get tyoo caught up in lables, can a person have both slave traits and bratty
ones, sure they can, im one :p im a brat that at times can be very slave like
in some dituations or mind sets,
[16:03] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): nods
agreement
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Imy, make me
coffee!
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): :P
[16:04] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): dramatically point's at shae behind her back
[16:04] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): Sure thing,
Miss Vanni - but if You want to drink the coffee, I'm gonna need more explicit
instructions. xD
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL
[16:04] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): but in what
condition will you get your coffee, miss vanni? *grins with a wink
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I hoped you would
do some "Harry Potter" thing and turn me in to a cuppa coffee
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "WELL YOU
SAID...."
[16:05] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): Ah, the
caffeine hasn't quite circulated enough for that level of thought xD
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): giggles
[16:05] Mal (Pwnography Resident): Latteus maximus?
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!
[16:05] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): hocus pocus
affine opus! *poof!
[16:05] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): grins
at Sir Mal. Perfection.
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love all you
folks
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you all who
offered an answer.
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and thank you
Aithne
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and welcome to
Xaara!
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok we move to
Imy!
[16:06] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): For me - I
can have brat tendencies, but only really with my own Master (or those
Dominants I'm close to that are ok with such behaviors) and in an appropriate
time/place. Like I'm not going to cause
a scene in a public ceremony, but I ~will +1 Him at every opportunity when W/we
play Skip It, regardless of if His pile is the lowest or not. Specifically so I can hear Him stop mid-sentence
in O/our voice call and say, "Oh, eat my ~whole dick." It makes me giggle. I also try to keep in tune with His mood as
much as I can - if He doesn't respond well to a joke/behavior/etc because He's
tired or stressed from work, I don't push the issue. I think that's the part that F/folks on the
outside who judge brattiness don't see... we're not just indiscriminately being
a dick in public without consent or reason... it's within O/our negotiated
dynamic and I personally try to make sure I'm not forcing third party consent
to my antics in a room full of P/people I don't know, especially when I don't
know how T/they feel about brats or bratty behavior. #
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!
[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That was all
really good Imy...and even the parts that are seen in public are due to do an
understanding between the Dom and Brat
[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But that does
make for a good other point...to what level can a Brat be one out in
public...and if people get mad is that forcing a third party consent
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think soon we
will do a whole discussion on third party consent
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as it's an
important topic
[16:10] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Ooo, that's a good
one.
[16:10] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): tips
imaginary hat. Happy to help give You
another topic to slate. xD
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but I don't wanna
get into that tangent here and now
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much
Imy (still waits for coffee)... :P
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we move to Aries
please
[16:11] Aries Amore (Aries Amore): thank you
[16:11] Aries Amore (Aries Amore): I agree that people get
to caught up in labeling. Sometimes it
is just a matter of personality. I wake
up sometimes in a playful mood...and some Dominates would perceive this as
being bratty. But to me, I am happy and
being playful. It is the real me...and I
do like the correction parts, even if subtle or gentle, it makes me feel my
submission at my core. If I know a particular Dominate will view me as a brat
or less than sub/slave, I will now feel free to be the real me, all of me. I
will not share this part of me, which I believe can be enjoyable. And I am not
like this ALL of the time,but this part does exist as I can be playful,
(bratty).
[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Several good
points
[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): the line between
"Cheeky Sub" and "Bratty Sub" is sort of muddled
[16:13] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): One persons cheeky is
another persons bratty :)
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): one's cheeky
subby girl or boy is another's "oh jesus a BRAT. let's go!"
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): jinx!
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hands
Johan a coke
[16:13] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): grins
[16:13] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Danke'!
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but spot on
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so that was a
really good point, Aries
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you for
your contribution!
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Magnus, you are
up please!
[16:14] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): First, I want to
commend you on the way you present the topic - the brat thinking that she's
making things more "interesting" and the unprepared dominant thinking
she's being "difficult." That encapsulates the usual viewpoints very
well. For me, that trouble that the brat went through to brew the coffee and
not bring it to me just means that she'll be making two trips, possibly with a
sore bum the second time. I'll preface
this by saying that I've never owned a brat, but I do know a few. I think too
many might view the brat as unnecessarily "attention-grabbing" or any
other number of negative labels. In my personal experience, however, I have
found brats to be fun and witty. Even more so when you get two brats together
and watch them go into conspiracy mode, but I digress. I have neither a like
nor dislike for brats - they're just a form of extra-playful submissive to me
and they require a different kind of handling.
Just as importantly, I'm attracted to intelligence and brats are often
very sharp – almost as sharp as the implements that keep them in line.
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree!
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): not to say of
course that non-brat subs are *not* intelligent or creative
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but Brats seem to
have that....extra push up the ladder lol
[16:16] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): True, true. Did not
mean to imply that.
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I know :)
[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I read something
years ago on a website from a Master that owned a Bratty Sub...he said the
greatest sense of terror he would have is coming home from work...and she would
be in the middle of the living room...kneeling and...grinning...
[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He figured the
ceiling was about to collapse on him
[16:17] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): laughs.
[16:17] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): hehehe
[16:17] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): chuckles.
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so yes...you
speak well of Bratty subs!
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and I do agree
that "attention whore" is a negative term
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): autumn you are up
please!
[16:18] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I am not a brat, I even have a hard time unless
extremely comfortable being cheeky, or even making intentional mistakes, not
sure if that is due to CPTSD, or the tism.
I can see it's appeal, from a subs view, the reminder of being put in my
place, or from a Dom s view, having to re establish the boundaries, but I
couldn't do it myself. I also prefer to
not stand out, even if it's for good things, and I do prefer praise over
discipline. But I can see how others
would enjoy that dynamic. #
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I do not think
that Brats are really trying to make their Dominant "mad"...otherwise
they would not have said Dom . I think
it's more "let's push a bit and give you yet another fun opportunity to
put me in my place."
[16:20] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): nods
emphatically at that last comment
[16:21] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Nods "But even that is out of my comfort
zone"
[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Understood!
[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As a switch it's
not me either.
[16:21] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Smiles
[16:21] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): And there is
nothing wrong with that, Autumn. Your form of submission is just as valid and
valued.
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but I appreciate
anyone's way of doing things that are SSC and consensual....even if it's not my
cuppa tea.
[16:22] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Exactly
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks!
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Becky ma
chere....you are up!
[16:22] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): thank you chérie ♥
[16:22] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): My comment is in
line with what many already said, adding some of my vision and some precisions
(It is the resume of a paper I wrote recently for my local dungeon.) In general, we tend to see brats as all about
defiance—challenging authority, pushing to seize control of a situation, even
blurring into what some would call topping from the bottom. Bratting done well is none of that. At its
best, it’s a playful, skillful dance that never seeks to take the reins away
from the dominant. The brat may tease,
provoke, and push, but always with the intention of enhancing the connection,
not undermining it. Some brats can be full-on mischief until a single clear
order—or even a quiet “hush”—switches them instantly into full obedience. They’re not there to derail; they’re there to
make the power dynamic richer. Many
dominants love brats for exactly that reason: they know the brat fully
acknowledges their authority and will respect it without question. Of course, give a brat idle time and expect
some creative improvisation, what else do you expect?
[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): stands
and claps
[16:24] Mal (Pwnography Resident): knows
those dashes anywhere
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Brava! Brava!
[16:24] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow):
Excellent summary!
[16:24] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): applauds. Very well said.
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Spot on Becky
[16:25] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): its a subject
close to heart, as I brat from both sides of the slash ;)
[16:25] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): grins
and nods nods at Miss Becky.
[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Because in the
end communication is always the thing
[16:25] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): I am loud, and I
need attention, I love being looked at
[16:25] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): communication is
the skeleton key to anything we do
[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed!
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you so much
for that!
[16:26] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): nods
excitedly at what Becky said
[16:26] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): ♥
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Draya, we move to
you please!
[16:26] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): i am a
"brat", and im sure everyone that knows me know that, although i am
many things, many aspects all rolled into one, but one thing i hate though especially in SL
(more rare in RL lifestyle) Brats get a bad name not just for what you spoke of
with lack of understanding, but also by those out there being
"assholes" to others and then just saying they a brat, being a brat
is not about being an asshole, its never about breaking rules, a brat that
breaks a rule is doing it wrong, (in my eyes) its about skirting that line, but
never crossing it, following the rules to the letter at times, so much so that
the Dominant has to adjust, think of a Brat like a genie, if you make a
wish/command, you better be sure you word it exactly right, hehe, As has been
said it keeps things flowing more naturally, my Old Daddy used to say "if
I have a sub that always dose exactly as they are told all the time, how can i
improve my ability to dominate," it
keeps things going, always evolving, not getting stagnant like some can, its
not an all the time thing and its often best if its not, then you can take your
Dom by surprise and thats even better hehe,
But being a Brat is hard, balancing that line takes skill,
especially with a good Dom that can close them loopholes, but thats part of the
fun,
As for the attention grabbing, what sub does not want the
attention of their dom? Brats are just more "active" about it, its
not about being needy or attention seeking, its a dynamic that flows well back
and forth, it can look negative to anyone outside, but then that can be said
for any D/s Dynamic, a masochist being beaten brutally may look cruel to those
that are not masochist.... anyway sorry
il shut up now :)
[16:28] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Draya, you just answered my question, I agree that
is why they get a bad name
[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): makes a
saving throw against "Wall of Text" :P
[16:28] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): giggles
[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All very well
said Draya!
[16:29] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Well said, Draya.
Maybe we need a discussion on "responsible bratting".
[16:29] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): checks
Miss Vanni's throw. "Nat 1, sorry,
Miss."
[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol Imy
[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And to vanillas,
if they came in this room and saw subs kneeling, they might flip out at all
this perceived "abuse" of people....so your point about everything
being relative is an important one
[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): one person's
abuse is another night of fun in the dungeon
[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): whooo!
[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much
for all that!
[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Jason-Lenore you
are up please!
[16:31] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): Thank
you Vanni. Personally I'm not a fan of the brat dynamic. It's not that I don't
like laughing and joking and playing around being silly, I absolutely do... but
the idea of "make me obey" coming from a dynamic to me is baffling.
If you have already submitted then in my mind the Dominant shouldn't have to
force obedience, I shouldn't have to be on the look out for booby traps in my
coffee. I can see for a scene that cashing in those ass checks that the mouth
writes, being a fun aspect to play, but for day to day life? Hell no. If I am
telling someone in my collar to do something, I expect it to be done, not that
I'm gonna have to force them to complete a task or get my damned beverage. Now
go ahead and make snarky comments, grumble and complain....don't care just get
the shit done, I'll cash in more ass-checks during scene time. I don't have the
time for disobedience, nor do I want to waste my time on a power struggle, it's
exhausting. That is not what I got into this Lifestyle for, if I want that kind
of defiance then I'll go get a vanilla partner with an attitude to not do what
I want them to do. Hard pass. But maybe that's just the Leatherman talking, I
like my rules, protocols, and decorum. #
[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I was thinking
coming from the Leather Community, "Brat" would be seen as not
something all that positive
[16:32] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): wonders
whether "brat" was even a concept in Old Guard culture?
[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and again,
everyone has their preference and as long as we do our thing and respect others
doing their thing, disagreement is fine
[16:33] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): grins
at shae and nodnods. Some understand it.
[16:33] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): smirks
"yeah Sir Jason is a grumpy man, he dont even like my glitter i got
special for him... " sulks
[16:33] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood):
Closest thing to a brat in Leather now are the pups
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have no desire
to be a slave....zero...but I appreciate those that get fulfillment from
"slavery" to a Dominant
[16:33] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): That
makes sense, Master Jason
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Different
strokes...for different folks...."
[16:34] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): Snark
don't bother me as long as there is successful execution of commands
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): actually can we
talk about "strokes" at a later date *giggles*
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's fine!
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And subs in your
dynamic will be attracted to that
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move to Sydney
please!
[16:36] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): As a brat I am
fishing for a response from my Master.
Usually I already have some idea what type of response I want and gauge
my jest aiming for that outcome. Past
experience with different types and levels of brattish behavior elicit various
expected comeback. Being cheeky,
disobedient, and naughty is fun. It creates a sense of playfulness that can be
missing. A Brat must understand her Master's limits and where he draws the line
... the Dom also needs to understand how I view my jesting and how I use
it. It can be a fun dance between
us. But ... I also feel apprehensive
about being a brat in public. Other Doms
in the area might have different limits and consider my remarks as
disrespectful. Having someone think I
was disrespectful or caused harm to my Master would be extremely painful. Bratting should be seen and used as something
that is playful as long as it is maintained within my Master's limits and adds
to his delight and happiness in the relationship. #
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and that is how
it works for you and how Johan and you set that up
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So it works
[16:37] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): he seems to
like my brat
[16:37] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I like all of you :)
[16:37] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): giggles
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I also think
if Johan said "Sydney not tonight" for whatever personal reason, you
would quickly change said behavior.
[16:38] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): nods
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so the dynamic is
important
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): smiles
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much!
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): spanks
my bratty hand
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Kahlan! you are up please
[16:39] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): [09:26] Kahlan ღ Dark
(wobbles08): here is my comment, if i'm not back, please post it for me
[09:26] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08): Bratting and Babygirl
both have such negative connotations on the whole. I have been called both and
because of it being such a loaded word when either is directed at me I wince
and have to wonder 'did I go too far this time, was it actually funny or come
out sounding mean and rude.' There have been many a time that I did something
thinking I was making others smile and laugh and just being lighthearted (such
as my bio-degradable glitter confetti that is easy clean up) and in turn was
called a Brat because one person didn't find it funny. It sent me in a spiral
wondering if I actually wasn't funny, wasn't 'good', wasn't obedient... I'm now
at a point where I ask others, Dom and sub, that witnessed the interaction if I
was too far off base. But most times I only really 'let the glitter fairy out'
when I'm comfortable with those I'm with so to have Brat thrown in my face when
I do makes me question more than just myself. So when something comes up i mark
it for later to be a little bit 'less' around these people the next time.
This is perhaps not exactly the slant you were looking for
but this has been my experience in the realm of bratting. ##
[16:40] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): nods
nods at Kahlan in understanding.
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think that all
makes perfect sense
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Even the
"cheeky/snarky" sub that isn't really a brat knows when and where it
might not be appreciated
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and can dial it
down
[16:41] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): If
the glitter doesn't hurt the leather then I'm ok with it, but that metal
glitter is a hard limit for me.
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Blowing up a
glitter bomb at a wedding or funeral for example....no bueno
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee...good
point Jason-Lenore!
[16:42] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): I believe that
metal glitter is technically called shrapnel.
[16:42] Aries Amore (Aries Amore): Exactly, we are
conditioned over time to hide the playful parts of our personalities in public
settings over time.
[16:42] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): Yes
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Kat back to you
please!
[16:46] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): I will say, I think it
takes a lot of mutual understanding & great lines of communication... a
good brat can read when, how far etc... and in shae & my case, we had a
much more traditional Owner/property relationship for *years* and had built up
a LOT of understanding of each other .Dynamics sometimes evolve as needs do
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100%
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we are
humans...we change
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm not the same
person I was a month ago, never mind five years ago
[16:48] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): smiles,
nodnodding.
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so to think that
any relationship is just static is not in line with human experience
[16:48] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): you are still as
amazing in my eyes ♥
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): blows
Becky a kiss
[16:48] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): giggles
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks Kat!
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan, we come to
the third Dark family member please!
[16:48] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Thank you for this
discussion Vanni, I'm working on a write
up as part of my Adept Syllabus specifically on Bratting and Brats & their
Tamers. When I first came into BDSM, Bratting/Brat Play, wasn't common or
openly acknowledged. It was only within the past 10-15 years that its become
more common on SL and the larger D/s community that I've seen online. My initial encounters with brats was
non-consensual. They would purposefully misbehave and act like well... spoiled
little children, in clubs and chats, and then pull the "Nyah nyah, you
can't do anything to me, My Owner likes me this way and they won't listen to
your complaint anyway so STFU!" Which
understandably left a bad taste in my mouth for the past decade regarding
brats. Only through owning/partnering
Sydney have I become more understanding that its more about being 'playful' and
'impish' and well... ME.... I am
DEFINITELY a Bratty Dominant; I don't
want to give much more of my own upcoming Community Chat away on Brat play, so
I hope those who are interested will keep an eye out for it and attend. :) (shameless self plug )) #done
[16:48] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood):
That's why we have dynamics
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): undoubtedly there
are annoying Brats that act like s**t and they give all Brats a bad name
[16:50] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): Same
to Johan's experience.
[16:50] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Excellent
observation, Johan. I look forward to your chat.
[16:50] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): they are what i earlier referred to as "assholes"
[16:50] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): I was just about to
reference your comment, Draya.
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): there are plenty
of vanillas that I would strangle if it were legal LOL
[16:51] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): right...
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so again it's a
bell curve...most are ok but it's the outliers that get the most viability and
so affect perceptions
[16:51] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): One suggestion,
lets stop calling these "assholes" brats, cause I don't think they
are... and the fact they quite often act without prior consent doesn't feel
like they deserve a second of our time, mine at least.
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): agreed
[16:52] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): I agree, Becky.
[16:52] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): nods
[16:52] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): head
moves up and down fast
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but at the same
time there are "brats" that push thing far beyond what's acceptable,
often in public, and that gets back to what Imy referenced....third party
consent
[16:53] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): nods
nods.
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): sure y'all do
what you want at home...
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyway we'll get
back to that
[16:53] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *massages Imy's neck
to make sure it doesn't have a kink in it*
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan thanks for
that!!
[16:54] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): grins
gratefully back at Master Johan.
[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Imy back to you
please!
[16:54] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): One thing
that S/some here might remember, depending on how long you've been on the
educational side of the Lifestyle community here in SL, is the community called
Solace of Submission. There, a group of
submissives came together and formed what was called the Brat Pack, which Y/you
would think would be a nightmare for the Dominants, but it was actually the
exact opposite. What I believe Sir
Magnus mentioned about discussions on responsible bratting... that was kinda
what the Brat Pack was for. It was meant
to be a representation to the Community of what ~actual bratting was, to help
combat some of that stigma that Draya mentioned that comes from those who just
want to be assholes in public and then hide behind the "brat"
label. It was a lovely group for the
time it existed, and some of the most submissive people I've met were a part of
it. Which just went on to show that brat
does not equal un-submissive. Also, to
avoid instilling any unnecessary fear in folks who are bratty/have brat
tendencies, the assertion that the
closest thing to a brat in Leather are pups isn't necessarily true. Like everything, each community and/or House
has its own way of doing things. For
example, the Master and Mistress of the House I trained in in RL were quite
appreciative of bratting, when the circumstance allowed. They didn't train it into Their slaves or
anything, but in the right context and time/place, They allowed it. It's probably where I got my
"time/place" awareness from, rather than just being a brat anywhere
at any time. Contextual bratting, if Y/you will. xD #
[16:54] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): you maybe there
for a while Sir Johan... Imy ha lots of "kinks"
[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol
"contextual bratting"
[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and omg
"Solace of Submission"
[16:56] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): I
found that place my 3rd day in SL
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): that was
Bucephalus Beaumont wasn't it (spelling)
[16:56] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): shakes
head. Mikhail Borgin.
[16:56] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): More
than 13 years ago
[16:56] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): ♥
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ah!
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it all washes
together after 20 years!
[16:57] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): ^ facts
[16:57] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): nods.
The Communtiy sim some of us lived on still exists - it houses A Meeting
Place/A Place to Meet now. :)
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): a person being a
jerk in public and hiding behind any label is no bueno
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some Dominants do
that too
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): None here of
course
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Imy
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok we have two
more comments and we have to close
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Aithne back to
you please
[17:01] Aithne (Dryantillae Resident): I personally find to
be truly happy we have to accept our nature and follow that nature but I am of
the opinion that in daily life we all
constantly grow ..people call me sometimes a cookie cutter slave but
personally I like being in that box...strict constraints suit me well ..to
follow those after a bad at work or a bad day in life is challenging.. I do
have a question again..if a bratty slave acts bratty in public...and their
Owner gets a complaint...can that also add to the hhmm ''spicyness'' that a
bratty slave can bring? I am speaking in general as I want to learn
[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok I am going to table that question for a minute as we are running late and I know that some
people need to move on
[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so let's get
Jason-Lenore's final comment, then anyone that wishes can stick around to
answer
[17:02] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): Thank
you Vanni. More to what Johan spoke of....That whole "This is the way my
Dom/Daddy likes me and you can't do anything about it." UGGGHHH Yeah I'm
not your Dominant and you don't have to listen to me.....BUUUT I also do NOT
consent to you playing with your brat kink with me. "Go brat over there
and leave me alone.", has been my response to those that insist on being
disrespectful like that. Again I don't mind cutting loose and all that but when
I give tasks, commands, etc. I expect it done to a certain standard....how it
gets done isn't exactly my concern....go ahead and get creative as long as the
task is done right . #
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed!
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Bratty behavior
ain't your thing and that's fine :)
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just like Aithne
said that acting bratty ain't her thing
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and the Darks
enjoy it
[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as long as
everyone is happy that is the key
[17:04] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): someone that is
disrespectful is not a Brat, end of story,
[17:04] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Nods in agreement
[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so subs in your
house, Jason-Lenore, would understand to obey and not flit about
[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): which is totally
bueno!
[17:04] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): They
can flit, as long as they do their tasks and aren't an annoyance
[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee
[17:05] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): There is a time and
a place for bratting.
[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): agreed
[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): again
communiction is key
[17:05] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): I
enjoy flitting about
[17:05] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): nods
lots at Sir Magnus.
[17:05] мαяιѕѕα
(RougeLaroux Resident): even those of us who visit Masters home with
permission of course, know where the lines are, and also the consequences of
cross them.
[17:05] Aries Amore (Aries Amore): agree with Draya and a
playful (bratty) submissive would NEVER want to bring disgrace or disrespect to
her Dominate as that would be very painful to her
[17:05] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): Time
and place
[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now if anyone
wants to answer Aithne's question, feel free.
here it is again...".if a bratty slave acts bratty in public...and
their Owner gets a complaint...can that also add to the hhmm ''spicyness'' that
a bratty slave can bring? I am speaking in general as I want to learn"
[17:06] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): It would
be generally poor ettiquette in any BDSM community to brat to a D type you
don't already have some relationship (and consent to)
[17:07] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Personally, I
believe that question runs right into the third-party consent problem. That
person that she's bratting at, forcing them to bring a complaint to their
Dominant, likely didn't consent to being involved in that dynamic.
[17:07] Mal (Pwnography Resident): I think as long as the
brat is not crossing a line and being bratty with somebody they do not belong
to, it's not something to be concerned about, generally. Some people have bad
days, some people do not like certain things. you can't control everybody in
public scenarios. However if you do something that affects somebody else and
they complain, it should be regarded.
[17:07] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): I would
never embarrass Kat like that
[17:07] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): I
mean I guess I could see that in a blasphemous confession/punishment/atonement
sort of dynamic......
[17:07] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): that would depend
on the dynamic and the Dominant, some doms want to project power when out in
public, so they want their subs on their best behaviour, others.. less so,
there is a chance for anything in the D/s community, any combinations of
things, its just finding the right fit for your needs and agreeing to a working
dynamic,
[17:07] мαяιѕѕα
(RougeLaroux Resident): looks out her nuns outfit for Master Jason
[17:08] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): Do i
need to put on my confessional?
[17:08] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): I can only
answer for the dynamic I have with my Master, but I suppose the nature of the
complaint would determine His feelings about it. If I was truly being an asshole in public and
He got a complaint, it would absolutely be a situation where a chat and
discipline were necessary, because I did not represent Him well. But if Someone is just up Their own ass and
think They're allowed to have an opinion on something that isn't Their
business? Then He'll give a generic,
"Thank you for letting me know" and we'll have a good chuckle about
it and move on.
[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Even a brat has
some expectations. if a Dom says "what we do here is fine, in public
I expect this kind of behavior" and the Brat pushes it in public, that is
grounds for real punishment IMO
[17:08] Mal (Pwnography Resident): I agree.
[17:09] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): agreed, as i said
before, a Brat will never disobey their dominant, thats not the game, doing so
makes you a bad sub not a brat
[17:09] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood):
Vanni! Why do these mentions of religious RP come up here so often?
[17:10] Cedric Harcourt (Cedric Harcourt): personally I
think a respectful response would be for the brat to self correct as soon as
she sees her actions are being percieved by another D as being
disrespectful. I would question her D if
he didnt expect the same - just my
thought
[17:10] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): Like Miss
Vanni's example about the coffee thing earlier that She thought I would make a
snarky comment about turning her ~into coffee.
If She didn't hav a problem with it and She wasn't the one
complaining? No one else's opinion would
really matter to my Master if They tried to complain, so long as I didn't
interrupt the discussion and derail it.
But if Miss Vanni truly asked for coffee and I turned Her into coffee
and she didn't like it and complained? Discipline
would ensue. :)
[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Tann that used to
come here to Xaara had a sub, Aoisle who was a total brat. they enjoyed the dynamic in public to an
extent. But Aoisle also knew when to
peel back because if she pushed things too far in public and Tann got a real
complaint (rather than "your sub is really annoying" kind of generic
stuff) they'd have a talk.
[17:11] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): I
remember them :)
[17:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good folks :)
[17:11] Rachel (RachelHolt Resident): I usually ignore an
obnoxious brat
[17:11] Rachel (RachelHolt Resident): best way to shut them
down
[17:12] Mal (Pwnography Resident): It's very easy to ignore
people here.
[17:12] Rachel (RachelHolt Resident): and some brats just
hate that
[17:12] Mal (Pwnography Resident): Here being second life.
[17:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I regularly use
"Block" to people who are real arseholes
[17:12] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): nods
lots at Sir Mal.
[17:12] Rachel (RachelHolt Resident): yeppers...me to
[17:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This was a great
discussion!
[17:13] Mal (Pwnography Resident): I liked it. Thank you,
Vanessa.
[17:13] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): block is my friend
[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks all so
much for your insights and thoughts
[17:13] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Excellent
discussion. Thank you so much for this, Vanessa and everyone.
[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): in a couple weeks
we'll get to more general discussion topics
[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but "third
party consent" is coming soon
[17:13] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): Thanks Vanessa, this was
very thought provoking & fun as always
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