"Humiliation:" March 28, 2021

 

[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: ok I think it is time to start up

[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: Before I open the discussion, let me post the usual header:  Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: We generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.

[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: While we are a chatty group, lots of extra chat makes it "noisy," so if we can please keep that to a minimum, it would be very appreciated, thank Y/you!

[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: The blog for this munch is:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/   It holds the archive for our munches here starting Jan 3, 2021.

[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: This discussion will end our time on the S/M of BDSM

[08:13] Vanni Cannoli: We talked a couple weeks ago about Sadism and what being a Sadist is all about

[08:13] Vanni Cannoli: and last week was Masochism

[08:13] Vanni Cannoli: Those discussions are on the above blog page for anyone that missed them

[08:13] Vanni Cannoli: Today we come to a specific part of S/M play, Humiliation play

[08:13] Vanni Cannoli: Which is misunderstood by many

[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: Actually, more of us practice this as part of our lifestyle play than we think

[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: When we think of "humiliation," we think of some crazed Top screaming at a bottom/sub, calling them names, worthless, and smearing body waste on them, or something.

[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: Just because I did that last night doesn't make me a bad person

[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: I mean

[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: While I was praying.

[08:15] Brianne: ♫ rimshot ♫

[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: Thank you!

[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: But there are very subtle forms of humiliation play as well, many that are quite everyday

[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: By the way, this discussion is going to morph into a whole workshop on humiliation play, Dijana and I will be working on that together :)

[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: So we are taking careful notes

[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: What I would like to do before opening the floor to Y/you all is to talk about three kinds of humiliation

[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: as I am a sociologist, everything has to be in some form of typology you see

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: The first is what can be called "Status Humiliation."

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: This is some kind of activity where the Bottom/Sub is moved down the hierarchy to be sure they, and everyone around knows, that the target is under the authority and rule of the Top/Dominant

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: For example

[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: Do any subs/bottoms here like to be leashed?

[08:18] flo: yes!

[08:18] Dijana384: nods nods

[08:18] Brianne hand shoots up!

[08:18] Goonie: yes

[08:18] Ƈαţ: yes

[08:18] Teddy tilts his head and yaps happily!

[08:18] -ღ Sultry ღ- nods

[08:18] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα: yes!

[08:18] Daelenie McMillan: hell yes

[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: Ok, so do I.  What we enjoy is having something done to us that humans do to a dog.

[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: That is a form of status humiliation

[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: it doesn't do anything to our self worth

[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: in fact if anything, it enhances it

[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: But it makes damn sure that WE know who is Boss, and everyone around knows that.

[08:19] Sir Jason Oi: It's like "Look I belong to somebody"

[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: Exactly Sir.

[08:20] RB Quinn: Status reinforcement... not degradation, though

[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: Another example could be "Walk three steps behind me, your eyes on my feet, watching where I go."

[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: Or as Iris has this in her profile, and I'm not outing her, how when she is leashed to Sir Zihm, she is not to speak to anyone

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: The second type of humiliation is Physical Humiliation

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: This is when the sub is turned into some kind of "object"

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: such as an ottoman, a couch

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: a chair

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: a lamp

[08:21] flo: or a foot stool

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: an animal

[08:21] Ƈαţ is a practiced ice cream dish

[08:22] Sir Jason Oi: Breakfast table

[08:22] Vanni Cannoli: the idea is objectification when an "object" the sub gets off on not being seen as human, but as what they are "portraying"

[08:22] Sir Jason Oi: Living art

[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: A Domme in my RL community had her girl be a lamp at a party

[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: it was kind of fun heh heh

[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: The third kind of humiliation one is the one where treading carefully is very important

[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: Emotional Humiliation

[08:24] Vanni Cannoli: This is where the Top/Dominant does use some kind of name calling, or humiliating acts, that are *****NEGOTIATED***** with the sub

[08:24] Vanni Cannoli: For example

[08:24] Vanni Cannoli: In a scene where I am a bottom, I love being called "bitch" or "whore"

[08:24] Vanni Cannoli: In a scene

[08:24] Vanni Cannoli: You do that to me outside a scene, you get to meet my Sicilian side which ain't pretty

[08:25] RB Quinn: grins

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: Some people really *need* this kind of verbal attack in order to get off in a scene

[08:25] -ღ Sultry ღ- nods

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: And as long as it's negotiated and carefully done, it's fine

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: but I think we can all see the danger here

[08:26] Vanni Cannoli: Done minus careful negotiation, it's as dangerous as taking a paddle and just wailing on a person with it minus negotiation

[08:26] Vanni Cannoli: its' abuse, pure and simple

[08:27] Vanni Cannoli: Some people are really puzzled by it, some love it.

[08:27] Vanni Cannoli: It's a personal thing

[08:27] Vanni Cannoli: As long as we are careful, it can be a fine thing in the toolbox

[08:27] Vanni Cannoli: so with all this said, and thank Y/you for your patience, let's go to Y/you.  do you like this kind of play?  Do Y/you avoid it?

[08:27] Vanni Cannoli: What aspects of humiliation play are fun or a turn off?

[08:28] Vanni Cannoli: Dae, you get to start us off today!

[08:29] Daelenie McMillan: Humiliation Play is a big subject, not just due to popularity nut because it covers so many different ways people feel the humiliation. Not everyone is into the same thing and some things are a total deal breaker. For me it's any bathroom play. I will not do it, it sicks me out and I will stop responding.

  There is a fine line between Humiliation play and abuse, sometimes it gets hard to tell the difference especially for those of us that get a turn on from the play. I believe it is one of the most dangerous types of plays because the line is so sharp one can easily cross it even without meaning to. as Vanni has said, communication is key here to avoid it.

 People think just because I like being called naughty names during the act or I like to be told to disrobe in (Appropriate settings and venues) it must mean it's ok to do it outside the scene. That would be.. incorrect. The caveat there is of course how the Dominant and Submissive have communicated and have agreed on their interactions.  #

[08:30] KannaLily is online.[08:30] Vanni Cannoli: Correct, Dae!

[08:31] Vanni Cannoli: This kind of play has to be seen as potentially dangerous as impact play

[08:31] Vanni Cannoli: One wrong "word" or "act" and it goes sideways fast, and can have just as lasting effects

[08:31] Vanni Cannoli pulls on Dae's pony tail playfully a bit and kisses her cheek

[08:32] Vanni Cannoli: Great first comment!

[08:32] Vanni Cannoli: Thank you!

[08:32] ORIOƝ: which is why it's negotiated beforehand, if it's not then yeah it's leading to disaster

[08:32] Vanni Cannoli: Indeed Sir

[08:32] Vanni Cannoli: Ok let's go to Master RB, please!

[08:32] RB Quinn: You can guess from my interjections (I apologize), I have a hard time with at least some aspects of humiliation.  I fear it so often is abused or used when it is only the dominant who wishes and pushes it.  Thank you, Vanni, for your careful explanation of how it can properly be a part of a healthy D/s relationship.  *smiles*    #

[08:33] Vanni Cannoli: It certainly can be.  May I ask a question please, Master RB?

[08:33] RB Quinn: Oh...  yes??

[08:34] Vanni Cannoli: Yesterday You brought Elli to the service station party nude..she's come nude or been tied at least once before that I remember

[08:34] RB Quinn nods, worried where this is going

[08:34] Vanni Cannoli: She enjoys being brought nude to a place where everyone will be clothed, yes?

[08:34] RB Quinn: She does, on occasion

[08:35] Vanni Cannoli: Right, so that's a form of humiliation play with her...that thrill of knowing she will be sort of a spectacle around people.

[08:35] RB Quinn: But when she does, it makes me so damn proud of her.

[08:35] Vanni Cannoli: And You do it safe, sane and with completely consent

[08:35] Vanni Cannoli: So it's healthy and fun

[08:35] RB Quinn nods.... Yes, Vanni.. thank you :)

[08:35] Vanni Cannoli: Now if you *forced* her to do it against her will, that would be a problem.  But it's great how it works :)

[08:36] Taree: Besides, Elli is cute Nakkies

[08:36] Vanni Cannoli: Hell yes!

[08:36] RB Quinn: smiles.... laughs and tickles his Taree

[08:36] ʀᴀᴠєɴ ɢöʀᴍѕѕöɴ: thank you for the insight Vanni

[08:36] Vanni Cannoli: Not that I would EVER want to be cuffed, gagged and brought somewhere on a leash naked.  Goddess NO!

[08:36] flo: laughs

[08:36] Vanni Cannoli passes my time schedule around

[08:36] Ƈαţ: lol

[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: Thank You Master RB for Your comment and being a great Role Model for us Xaarians! ♥

[08:37] RB Quinn blushes... "Thank YOU, Vanni"

[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: Let's go to Sir Jason please!

[08:37] Sir Jason Oi: I do enjoy humiliation play in all three of the forms you mentioned, the thing with emotional or verbal humiliation especially is that you need to get to the core of what causes the submissive shame or embarrassment.

One way in which I like to do a little verbal humiliation play is some verbal banter and lite gaslighting, with my girl.

Also with emotional humiliation much more importantly over the others is proper Aftercare. You really have to build up your bottoms emotional well-being and self-esteem after this type of scene, let them know that you still care about them, that you don't really find them to be worthless etc. #

[08:38] Vanni Cannoli: Yes, 100% correct Sir!

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: For example, Mindfucking is really fun...in a scene

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: Out of a scene that's very abusive

[08:39] ORIOƝ: absolutely vanni

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: So one has to let the sub know that the mindfuck was then, this is now

[08:39] Sir Jason Oi: Yes indeed

[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: Thank You Sir for your insightful comment!

[08:40] Sir Jason Oi: My pleasure

[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: Teddy you are up please!

[08:40] Teddy: i like doing humiliating things and get praise for it. cause am a puppy and puppies don't gotta worry bout things being humiliating for people. But not people calling me horrible things or thinking I’m something bad.i was with a d/s family.an i was the puppy.and there were slaves. there was a NC with rules they didn’t give until 2 month later. it said that puppies was lowest of everyone.an could be treated worthless. less than a human. f'k by anyone anytime no choice cause they nothing. it was like status thing you said? an i didn’t like.so i said no and not there anymore. I like being lowest status. lowest rank. knowing all humans in charge. But not being treated badly or thought of like as worthless. im a nice puppy. that made me feel horrible :( it didn’t feel humiliated.it felt  degrading.an it hurt bad. I got upset felt like people thought I’m a disgusting thing being a puppy :( i think its super important that tell sub about all rules and things before. Not later. not forgetting. cause its not nice an can hurt feelings

[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: Yes, that was abusive status humiliation mixed in with emotional damage

[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: You were right to get out of there as it wasn't negotiated with you beforehand

[08:42] Daelenie McMillan: inside every puppy is a wolf. Never forget that.

[08:42] ORIOƝ: glad you got out of that teddy

[08:42] Vanni Cannoli: btw Teddy, last year the weekend before our club closed for COVID reasons, there was a Dom guy training his fetish girl puppy, she was ultra cute!

[08:42] Ŀuzĭ: ((ops sorry love the chat but has been summoned. thanks for the invite apologies

[08:42] Sir Jason Oi: C @ Teddy

[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: Go ahead with Your comment to Teddy please, Sir

[08:43] Teddy: yay cute puppy!

[08:43] Sir Jason Oi: I am glad you got out of there quickly.

Degradation is a form of emotional humiliation play, however.

[08:44] Sir Jason Oi: But it has to be play.#

[08:44] Vanni Cannoli: Yes, it can be Sir.  And some subs love it.  But there are people with emotional issues that aren't really "playing" but getting even further damaged by what the Top/Dominant might see as "play."  It's a real fine line as Dae said.

[08:45] Vanni Cannoli: So it takes real high levels of communication to be sure what's happening is healthy

[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: Or the Top/Dominant ends up being unwittingly abused as they pile what they thing is "fun" on someone that is really in an emotional bad spot

[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: I've seen this a few times

[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: Unhealthy people that need help, not a scene. ":/

[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: And then the Dom/me is like "I didn't want to hurt them!" Because they didn't!

[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: anyway enough of my soapbox

[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: Thank Y/you both!

[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: Candice you are up please!

[08:47] Candice Svenska: thank you Vanni :) I'm the same as most i think, call my anything in a scene, but yes random and out side theres a time and place and mood depends to, otherwise its going to get disliked, also triggers and health need considering too :) #

[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: Indeed!

[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: Well said, thank you! :)

[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: Ok let's go to Cat please!

[08:48] Ƈαţ: Thanks Vanni!  I was thinking that if you had asked me before this talk if i was into humiliation I'd have said No.  But, the fact is I love the leash, I think its hot to be called a slut in bed, I've had D's put the most horrid, disgusting stuff in my collar float text and thought it hilarious, etc... To me, humiliation has always meant something that genuinely makes me feel bad about myself, demeans and undermines my self-esteem.  I know myself well enough to know that I dont have alot to spare, thats a hard limit for me. And it's MY responsibility to know that.  lol  So, like with anything knowing each others definition of things, and negotiating carefully is key. And I guess, all said and done, I do like some kinds of humiliation.  :)

[08:49] Vanni Cannoli: Right!

[08:49] Vanni Cannoli: Like anything, this is a spectrum, not a single "thing"

[08:49] Ƈαţ: can  i just add

[08:49] Vanni Cannoli: sure

[08:49] Dijana384: I'm the same Cat!

[08:50] Ƈαţ: to clarify, Its important that i know my limitations around that and be honest with myself.

[08:50] Ƈαţ: before i can agree, or not, to anything

[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: That's 100% correct

[08:51] ORIOƝ: well said cat

[08:51] Ƈαţ: :)

[08:51] Vanni Cannoli: Humiliation play, done right, can even be freeing.  Done with an experienced Dominant and carefully, it can make us face things we really want to avoid about ourselves in a fairly safe way.  That's all predicated on LOTS of communication with one's Dom/me.

[08:52] Vanni Cannoli: For example...

[08:52] Vanni Cannoli: A dom guy in my RL community got a girl he was working with to really understand she LIKES giving blow jobs by making her admit it

[08:53] Vanni Cannoli: Rather than some thing she *thought* was sick.

[08:53] Vanni Cannoli: it was rather interesting to have her go around the club saying "Hi, my name is _____ and I really like oral sex, Master ____ wanted you to know."

[08:53] Vanni Cannoli: Of course, he negotiated that with her and told us what was going to happen

[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: Sultry you are up please

[08:54] -ღ Sultry ღ-: This is a sensitive area due to my RL abuse.  I have found that I agree with Vanni in that I enjoy being called the more naughtier/nastier names during play, however, outside of that you would also see the feisty and spicy Mexican side of me show her claws in an instant.  I think the only issue I have would be when the humiliation is done purely for a Dominant's ego, simply to push his/her dominance with no regard for the feelings of the submissive without consent, of course. I am very submissive but when I feel disrespected in anyway my defenses will flare up immediately.  Oh, and I love being leashed and put on display! *grins*#

[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: The key phrase you used Sultry was "without consent"

[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: Minus consent, that's abuse, pure and simple.

[08:56] Vanni Cannoli: And yes, just as there are submissives that should avoid humiliation play, there are Dominants that should as well

[08:56] Vanni Cannoli: They're in it for the wrong reasons

[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: And it's not that hard to spot them, they get to abuse pretty quickly

[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: Thank you!

[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: Teddy you had a comment to me?

[08:57] Teddy: yus

[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: I saw that just as I was calling on Sultry

[08:57] Teddy: o.o the freeing thing about blowjob you said. so.i had put this head harness with dildo on that move in an out.blowjob trainer thing. on me. an training for bone sucking >.< an wore it all over SL.with tag on bone sucking trainee. had to admit i loved bones to his friends. an it was humiliating.but it was freeing.like said.an fun. an loved it. cause i was praised loadsan they loved it. but if i wasnt scene. an i wasnt puppy. noway i could ever do it.way too shy o.o XD lol ##

[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: There you go!

[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: After that girl came to us and said she liked giving head, we all said "We love that about you and you are such a good, wonderful girl"

[08:58] Brianne: awwwww

[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: As what she needed was an affirmation that she was totally normal and wonderful

[08:59] Vanni Cannoli: so I see that in what you just said :")

[08:59] Vanni Cannoli: Thank you!

[08:59] Vanni Cannoli: Ok let's go to Sir Sam please!

[08:59] Sam Cabot: When someone is into humiliation, triggers become a VERY important factor in negotiations. They may enjoy every demeaning word (during the scene of course), but one word might make them snap out of it. And like some  subs have said, what is arousing in a scene can earn a trip to the ER when said outside of the scene. Sometimes you have to go with the "treat her like a princess, fuck her like a slut" approach. The motivation for humiliation play should be mutual enjoyment or growth, not one person's ego needing a boost.

Humiliation play does not always work out the way we expect it, so both parties have to be prepared to stop the scene in an instant and provide aftercare. It is important to remind the s type their true value, and keep following up to show they are valuable to the dominant. Call me weird (and I'll wear it as a badge of honor), but I prefer providing "on going care" as opposed to aftercare. #

[09:00] Brianne nods in enthusiastic agreement

[09:00] Vanni Cannoli cheers!!! \o/

[09:00] -ღ Sultry ღ- nods and smiles up to Sir Sam

[09:00] Vanni Cannoli: So well said, Sir Sam!! ♥

[09:01] Sir Jason Oi: Yes Sam!

[09:01] Sir Jason Oi: I love the "ongoing care"

[09:01] Vanni Cannoli: Agreed 100%, thank You for that amazing comment!

[09:01] Vanni Cannoli: Sir Jason You are up again please

[09:02] Sir Jason Oi: Sometimes being triggered and getting catharsis is the goal, but again that is something to be discussed and negotiated beforehand and you really have to know your bottom very well to even attempt this sort of thing because you need to really understand what issues you're collectively going to be working through and as always Aftercare.#

[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: Yes, absolutely Sir.  That Dom in my community had been working with that girl for quite a while before they got to the point of her making that circle at the club

[09:03] Vanni Cannoli: It wasn't like "Ok, thanks for letting me know, let's humiliate you." lol

[09:03] Vanni Cannoli: Thank You Sir!

[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: Ok Vivian you had said "C" some time before so I moved you up

[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: please go ahead then we'll get to Goonie next

[09:04]  ღ Vivian Song  ღ: Looks up and puts my hand up to count, yes, it was 2 days ago. someone spoke to me and I am always nice and said hi, Sir hope you are enjoying Xaara, there is so much to enjoy here. And he responded. "Well, your a smart little cunt, aren't you?" I honestly almost kicked and spit but then I realized that might be something expected here. I just wondered........I stopped the conversation

[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: That was completely inappropriate

[09:04] Sir Jason Oi: O.O

[09:04]  ღ Vivian Song  ღ: nods, and looks down

[09:05] RB Quinn: That is NOT a 'thing' here!!

[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: Go ahead flo

[09:06] flo: that is absolutely NOT a thing here, but I do know there are sims out there, this type of addressing is encouraged, like for example, misogyny RP places in SL, but if you go there you know that before hand

[09:06] Vanni Cannoli: Yeah we probably have to take into account that he may have come from elsewhere, Flo

[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: But that word is striking, like a slap

[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: One should know not to use it lightly

[09:07] Dijana384: how do you respond to something like that besides....no response?

[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: in a place where it's not *obvious* it's ok

[09:07] Sir Jason Oi: I use it more for men than women just sayin

[09:08] Ƈαţ: iprob would have some something smartass like 'i try' and walked away lol

[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: Well I would have said "Sir, that's not a word that can be used here minus negotiation with the particular sub."

[09:08] Sir Jason Oi: Inform them that you don't consent to being treated that way

[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: and if he said it again I'd have told him to fuck off and left

[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: But that's Vanni

[09:08] Dijana384: nods and laughs

[09:08] -ღ Sultry ღ- nods emphatically to Vanni

[09:08] RB Quinn: cheers for Vanni

[09:08] Daelenie McMillan: "we're sorry, that word may be appropriate when speaking to your troglodyte mother but it is not appropriate for adult conversations in an adult sim. Please go back to pre school and learn "Manners." Thank you and have a nice day."

[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: Anyway you are safe here, Vivian

[09:09]  ღ Vivian Song  ღ: This is my home. I won't leave. I said, "wow, rude!" that was it.

[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: thank you for bringing that to our attention though

[09:09] Candice Svenska: consent is a big umbrella of protection here in Xaara

[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: Ooops...Goonie go ahead please

[09:09] Goonie: The default position for a decent human being is to be kind to others, so how do we as subs reassure a dominant who is accustomed to being nice to people that being nasty to us is actually being nice because we love it?

[09:10] Vanni Cannoli: Time, discussion and communication

[09:10] Sir Jason Oi: What Vanni said

[09:10] Vanni Cannoli: trying small things first and moving up

[09:10] Sir Jason Oi: reassuring them that you enjoy it

[09:10] Goonie listens appreciatively to the comments.

[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: It's like learning how to be a top in impact play

[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: A first time Top is probably not going to satisfy a heavy bottom

[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: so they have to work up to the point they can do that

[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: and that's fine really, you learn as you go along

[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: so I'd say the same thing Goonie, it's working together :)

[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: Thank you for that insight!

[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: We'll go to Taree please

[09:12] Taree: Vanni, I love these discussions.  For all that my RL has kept me off line, I have put my foot down and reserved Sunday mornings for you. 

> This talk has started a negotiation with my Master.  I find the idea of being gifted, or publicly displayed exciting, and scary.  Is that humiliation?  I never thought of it that way.  But yes, I think it is.  To be offered to another man for service shows that I am his slave, in his hands.  It feels more  like affirmation than humiliation.  

 ((A warrior in Treve used to call me 'cunt'.  I was a free woman!  So I started calling him 'dickless'.  He was livid!!!  Oh I loved it.  He couldn't touch me because of who my guardian was.  I can be such a brat.)) #

[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: lolol!

[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: Nice!

[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: and yes, that's absolutely a form of humiliation play

[09:14] Vanni Cannoli: See, humiliation is really putting oneself in a real vulnerable position

[09:14] Vanni Cannoli: Where one has to be 100% dependent on their Dominant to protect them and do what's right

[09:14] Vanni Cannoli: So you get to "get off" with being an object, or being exposed, or what not, and be safe

[09:14] Daelenie McMillan: it can be a lot of fun too Taree. As long as you both know the person your gifted to.

[09:15] Vanni Cannoli: It's a real kink

[09:16] Vanni Cannoli: Any other comments on our topic today?

[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: Next week, no Klatch, it's Easter and I'm going to NOT resurrect early

[09:17] RB Quinn: Brilliantly done, as always, Vanni

[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: So back in two weeks for a discussion on Dominance

[09:17] Charlie CC Cooper is online.

[09:17]  ღ Vivian Song  ღ: great talk

[09:17] Sir Jason Oi: Thank you Vanni and I hope everyone learned something

[09:17] -ღ Sultry ღ-: Thank you, Vanni!  Again, another wonderful and enlightening discussion!

[09:17] Daelenie McMillan: hugs Vanni and kisses her cheek

[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: :) ♥

[09:17] Daelenie McMillan: Have a wonderfilled day E/everyone :)

[09:18] Sam Cabot: Vanni, thanks for one more wonderful discussion. These are definitely worth getting up early on a Sunday. Thanks also to everyone for sharing their thoughts.