[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!
[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Our
discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type
"C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a
question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you
wish to retract either your C or your Q.
If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just
say "Q @ [name]"
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend
to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions
directed at a person's comment to the top.
The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the
order.
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If a
person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C"
to reply, replies to the question will be open.
Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Please
keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets
noisy! Thank you! ♥
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The
archive for this Klatch can be found here:
https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/
It houses current and many older discussions.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): With that
out of the way, we'll begin.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): This is
the last discussion in the "BDSM" acronym series that we started in
March believe it or not!
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): when we
gather in two weeks we'll start a series of more general discussions, of which
I have many topics
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but as
knowledge builds on knowledge, what we have discussed here will inform future
discussions, so don't hit "erase" as I tell my students!
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we
discuss a very misunderstood kind of submissive....The Brat!
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I of
course have some prepared exposition so as I ramble, feel free to put in a C or
a Q, and then we'll get to the queue.
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): After
"Babygirls" which we discussed a bit ago, Brats tend to cause the
most consternation.
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): There is
a very deep love/hate kind of feeling toward Brats -- one loves them or one
wants to strap them to a neutron bomb
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Now to be
clear, a Brat is not just a "cheeky sub"
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): A Cheeky
sub has a sense of humor, might say some off the wall, sarcastic things, or
have some interesting behaviors that could rub people the wrong way, but
doesn't take things to the level of The Brat.
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Brats are
also often referred to by others as "Attention Whores"
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Which may
be in a way true, as Brats are usually finding new and improved ways to keep
their Dominant on their toes and "make things more fun"...involving
some new screwball kind of behavior.
[15:46] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): nods
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ): So the
attention to detail is often the important part here
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Here is
an example I've used before, some of you have heard it so don't ruin the
punchline!
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Master
HottDude says to his Bratty slave "Go make me coffee"
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Bratty
Slave says "Yes Master!" and runs into the kitchen.
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): He can
smell the coffee brewing and smiles.
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ten
minutes later, she comes back in the living room minus coffee, and plops back
on the couch.
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Master
HottDude says "Hey...where's my coffee?"
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and here
it comes....
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ): She
looks back with an incredulous look and says, loudly, "WELL YOU SAID to
*make* coffee. You didn't say you want any!"
[15:48] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ♫
rimshot ♫
[15:48] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): perfect
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Perfect
[15:48] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): groans once again
[15:48] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): facepalm
[15:48] Seli (Seliara Elton): slow claps
[15:48] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): laughs
[15:48] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): nods in agreement.
proper response.
[15:48] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I know that girl!
[15:48] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): I'd never.... *halo*
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh
[15:48] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): Did that to an
officer once. lol
[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): A few
years ago I read an article online about how the worst thing the owner of a
Brat can ever see is to walk into his
living room and see his Bratty Sub kneeling on the floor...smiling...
[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): He should
expect the house to collapse in the next five minutes
[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Unlike
the smart-alek, cheeky sub, the Brat is always looking for a new and improved
way to "make things more fun" and keep the activity rolling.
[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Dominants
that can't handle Brats are completely perplexed by this....WHY would a
Dominant want to put up with such a person who is endlessly finding ways to
contravene orders or do insane things?
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That
said...Brats are misunderstood by people so perplexed.
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): They do
intend to obey and serve...but what I have been told by Brats and read on their
worldview is something like this..."I will obey but not to anyone. Why should I just 'obey' in a mindless, rote
way? Make me obey and I will."
[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and the
kind of Dom that appreciates Brats are
the ones that like being 'kept on their toes' so to speak, so they have to find
new and improved ways to gain that obedience.
[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Before I
turn things over....what people
consensually do is their biz. If a sub
is a Brat or not, or a Dom wants to have a Brat as a sub or not, is all their
personal choice. As long as things are
SSC and fall under RACK and PRICK rules, what people do is their concern and
all we really want here is understanding and happiness for everyone.]
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We don't
have to understand or even like something to say "ok, you do you, all's
good!"
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): After
all, Vanillas look at all of us the very same way.
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): With all
that said, the questions for the August Assembly today are: 1) Are YOU a Brat,
and if so, what "excitement" do you like bringing your Dominant (or,
if you are not one, what zany stuff have you seen Brats do?) and 2) If You are
a Dominant who likes Brats, or dislikes them, why? What is it about a Brat that
either attracts You or instantly repels You?
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and let's
of course keep this friendly even if we don't get it
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): First I'm
going to go back to Katie's comment, let me repeat it'
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): [08:49]
Katie (katiewalsh1993): C: I've been guilty of somewhat bratty behavior..
maybe.. never convicted onit though.. if you can subvert instructions given
somewhat literally with whatever wiggle room you can fin then you're on the
way~
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Katie may
I ask a follow up on that?
[15:56] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): Yes?
[15:56] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): resists the urge to
specify the can you/may you thing
[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So I
think you're saying you might look for ways to find that "wiggle
room?" Like the sub in my example
with the coffee? Is that sort of
"subversion?"
[15:58] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): Yup, find the room
within the language to exploit things a bit and take it in an unexpected
direction~ Makes things more dynamic
[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): There you
go!
[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): More fun!
[15:59] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): Technically I have
done nothing wrong~ Monkeys paw and stuuf!~
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And i
know some Dominants are like "how exactly is that 'fun?'"
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
Right...she did what she was told, make coffee!
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If he had
said "bring me coffee" she likely would have brought the can of coffee to him
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
"Here you go!"
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Katie
thanks! ♥
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok we now
move to Cyan!
[16:01] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): In my experience,
there tends to be a fine line between "really good bratting" and
"annoying bratting". Many
don't know when to stop unfortunately. A
really good brat can be fun, but they know when to stop as well. And
unfortunately, a select few push that line on purpose to instigate their
"kink dispenser" Good creative
bratting can lead to a lot of fun! :)
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): There is
truth to that
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Of course
what that line is varies from person to person
[16:03] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): very true
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some
Dom/mes love a really really bratty brat
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): others
will tolerate it a bit
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): then stop
it
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so while
I agree, I think that line is fuzzy.
Good points!
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
Cyan!
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia!
[16:04] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): i apologize if my
words offend...that is not my intent rather it is my intention to voice my
experience with Brats.... as a submissive observing it.
My observation with Brats is simply that they do not keep
this "Brat" complex within the confines of their D/s relationship
with a Dominant. i see it on display when its not appropriate. Thus my
experience with "Brats" has NOT been a positive one.
I wind up having to see it on display at fountain, or in
various gatherings where one should conduct one’s self as a respectful
submissive.
Worse i have to deal with it as a Choreographer. Which is
the ONE situation where i am NOT a submissive. I am the Choreo....don't pull
that brat shit with me....cause i will can your ass from my act faster than you
can BLINK.
Keep it between you and your whoever. Its not my kink, and i
will not play into your personal narrative as a brat.#
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): this gets
into the external consent issue
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): which
we'll have soon
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): While a
Dom/me and a Brat are totally fine in their behavior with each other, is it
just to be expected that such behavior is tolerated everywhere? Well if I go to work and act like a
"brat" I can expect to be canned.
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That said
the person and the community has to determine what the line is between
playfulness and disrespect of the situation
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): which
again goes back to Cyan's comment about "level of brat"
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We
certainly want people to have fun but at some point decorum is a
necessity. But I do not know or wish to
say what that "line" is.
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia
you made a very good point, thanks!
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne we
come to you please!
[16:08] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Done well I know
that a brat is really trying to express the fact that they care and they care
enough to really engage my mind with their bratiness not just misbehaving but
adding texture and life and vitality and originality maybe it's a twinkle of an
eye as she serves something Maybe the way she pauses to look at her reflection
in mirror to make sure that she is dressed for me or maybe when she sticks me
in a cage when I fall asleep and then poses on top of that cage takes a photo
and presents it to me in a book That's
one that I remember years and years after it happened ! That is fundamentlly
different thn simply acting unruly.
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Again I
think it's matters of degree...most of what you said might not be seen as
really "bratty"...except for the cage situation of course...
[16:10] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): It can be endearing
when the terms are worked out through the relationship...she takes as much
delight in her punishment!
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but is it
punishment or funishment?
[16:10] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): *giggles *
[16:10] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): The consequences
fit the situation
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): is the
idea to work out that behavior and prevent it, or to give a sort of
"reward" for doing it?
[16:11] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): If she hurs
community, then we have to correct that wwithout extinguishing the spark...it
can be a fine line, as hestia pointed out
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good
points!!
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): we come
to Cee please!
[16:12] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): While I love me a
'cheeky' and witty sub, I cannot do brat. It is too time consuming trying to
figure out what will happen next and being so literal in instructions it makes
my head hurt. In my submissive part if I were to come back without coffee my
Lord would just stand there and wait for me to figure out what I had done to
displease Him. But bring on the "sassy' ones. #
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee,
that's a really good point that I've heard -- "I am NOT going to figure
out how to give a direction in such a way that it CANNOT be
overturned"....because it will be overrturned lol
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's
why when first coming into contact with a submissive, time spent together and
seeing what goes on is essential
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and clear
communication on both sides is necessary
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the
problem is when people into *any* relationship with misguided hopes.."I
can cure this and make him/her what I want." BZZZT
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's
just recipe for disaster, D/s or vanilla
[16:16] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): haha!
[16:16] RB (RBQuinn Resident): nods
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well
said, thanks!
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Salis we
come to you please!
[16:17] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): I don't get this
"make me obey" idea if the submissive has submitted to obey their
Dominant. Why does that idea make
sense? I get that some bratty behavior,
at times can be fun. But not all the
time! That gets exhausting. A cheeky sub can be lots of fun.#
[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!
[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and again
it comes down to understanding what each other wants, needs and expects
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some
Dom/mes LOVE the idea of bending the Brat to their will, as they can anyway lol
[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and like
I said earlier, the Brat will eventually obey, but they see it as "sorry,
but rote, immediate doing what I'm told is boring. Why should I?"
[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Again,
not everyone's cup of tea
[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but very
good point Salis, thanks!
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sydney we
come to you please!
[16:20] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): I could make an
entire dissertation on brats but I will try to keep it ... succinct
(kinda). I am a brat. This is an important part of my character. I enjoy the moments I express that
trait. Not many outside my close friends
and family know this since I keep it controlled. A brat has to become familiar and really
understand her Dominate before bratting.
I only brat within the limits set for me. I can go from blatant disobedience and poking
the bear to playful flirty teasing. My
brattish behavior will never cross the established line and will never publicly
disrespect or hurt my Dominate. There is
a spectrum of brats, not all are always insolent, disrespectful, pushing. Not all brats are 'harmful'. I believe public bratting should be
avoided. The sub bratting in public
supposedly knows her Dom's limits but people in the area might have different
limits and consider the bratting remarks as flagrant disrespect. Should consent be considered for the public
audience? For a brat, they will be 90% obedient
and respectful, but 10% there is a time to play around, be playfully
mischievous and disobey. When done
responsibly, brat play adds a bold, playful energy to the D/s relationship. #
[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): These are
all very good points
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I will
say though that *some* Dominants *like*
their Brat doing *some* of their Bratty behavior in public. It shows the Dom has a Brat and does
something to control them.
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But
again, we get into 'third party consent' and what Hestia pointed out...why do
*I* have to be involved in this
[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so again
I think it's a matter of the community and what it is willing to tolerate
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Remember
we aren't here to figure out world peace or save the manatees....we're kicking
the can around
[16:24] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lol
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks
Sydney
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Katie
back to you!
[16:24] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): My comment was
just: I would like to kinda suggest just a little, reading the room at first.
Brats may be brats but should be just a
lil' flexible thing... Don't go into a new situation and expect them to conform
to you. In first contact, flexibility is pretty important as you get to know
each other and rapport is never built right away.
[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree
Katie!
[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That said
a Dominant might see a Brat and say right off the bat "not my type"
which is fine, as that Dom wouldn't be the Brat's type either
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but
you're right, many subs don't feel they have to obey every order given
immediately...and that leads to some being labeled "Brat" right on
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Which I don’t'
see as fair either
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very good
point, thanks!
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Alsedel,
you're up please!
[16:27] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Thank you and
this is my view of the world with this. Everyone has their own views and should
be respected. There is a difference between Bratting and The Brat.
[16:28] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Sydny so
eloquent inher commetns about it.
Bratting is playful, sexual, haunting, and leads to building a
relationship.
[16:29] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Also,
Dom/Masters can Be bratting. I do it on
occasions when I accuse My Bestie Hestia on her card cheating. .
[16:29] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): moi??? (shocked
look)
[16:29] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): For Dom/Sub
it what they will except.. in their relationship. ITs not Obstructive is Constructive.
[16:30] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Bratting is
role a behavore anyone can do it. Now
the BRAT
[16:32] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Brats are
another lleve if Dom want to be engaged
with a BRAT their perrogative. The BRAT
can try tomanipulate not only the DOM but those around us. Hestias example were
so on the mark there. Again, everyone
has their on SL their D/S Being an old
Gorean i watch it destroyed by the Kajira/Princesses where were BRATS. .
[16:33] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): I could on
but .. coffee time. Everyone here knows what they want and how far they go in
the Brat/Dom relations or BRAT/Sub .. cause doms can be brats too#
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): All good
points
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and I
think your dichotomy of Bratty-ness vs a BRAT has quite a bit of merit
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I just
would say that I think saying all "Brats" are manipulative kinds of
somewhat sociopaths is probably a bit of a stereotype. Certainly some are....and very
"regular" subs can be highly manipulative as well minus the usual
"Brat" behavior
[16:35] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): To me that’s
the delimiter.
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That’s a
very good point! Thanks Alsedel!
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne
back to you!
[16:36] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I understand that
from the outside of a dynamic, bratty behavior looks like whatever we wouldn't
personally tolerate. But within the stated and sometimes unstated dimensions of
a couple on either side of the slash, an understanding emerges that balances
disrespect and the continual negotiation of where the balance lies....and when
those forces align, it just works for them. So I'm sort of defending brats
because the intent is notjust to cause trouble. It can be the glue that really
makes a couple work or they wouldn't collude in it!
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree
100%!
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): What
works for folks works for them!
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We can
personally disagree, even say to ourselves "Holy sh*t I'd NEVER get
involved in that!" and yet respect the fact people get into things because
they like them
[16:38] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Absolutly..
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I don't
understand the features of "Abrasive Elbow Worship" but that doesn't
mean I hand people body lotion if I see it happening
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Just
"ok not my thing" and move on
[16:39] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I think that a brat
as simply defying every command or tryinjg to get out of things because they
cannot be physically forced (virtually) is not a brat at all....they live for
challenge.
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree!
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And
that's a very good point
[16:40] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): and they are out
the door
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): it is
after all a matter of degree
[16:40] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): but when they call
forth my fiendishness with etheir own, I find that engrossing!
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :P
[16:41] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): that is the stuff
of great scenes and a continuing delightful relationship
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne
thanks for that, good point!
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee back
to you please!
[16:42] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I also think this
behavior depends on what outcome the brat is looking for, punishment or just
being noticed. If taken too far for the former it could become
pathological. Again negotiation is
paramount to this working right. I also
thought I would explain why brats are not my cup of tea. I am eldest of 9 and
raised my siblings 7 boys and a sister with Down's. I did all that "well
you did not tell me you wanted it in a cup" stuff for many years. Brings
back memories of trying to run a household as a child myself. Brats, have at it
but in my world I would put you in a corner, unless that is what you are
looking for. Doms can be brats at times too. But Respect to all #
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes
that's a very good point Cee!
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That
said...there are Dom/mes that LOVE having an ultra-bratty brat. I dunno if any of you remember Dani, she was
a Seraph here years ago...she was an ultra-brat and her Master, Peter, not only
loved it he egged her on.
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): To the
chagrin of some here....
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
So....everyone has their thing!
[16:45] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): I think some dommes
like to be challenged a bit and may look to the brats for that. It's boring
being obeyed blindly all the time
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sure!
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And some
do like being obeyed instantly 100% of the time
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): everyone
has their thing
[16:46] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Like a woman who
wants a man to work for it
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and
there's someone for everyone!
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): My friend
Tann had a very bratty sub and just loved the challenge
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): some
would look at go "wtf?"
[16:47] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Gor has a saying
"Let the swords of others set your limitations" I think in bratting it is "Let the
whip of your Dominant set the brats limit" (not kink limits/likes, but how
far they can go bratting )
[16:47] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): But Gor had an
entirely different understanding of what a slave is and to what lengths one
could go to enforce compiance
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): all good
points!
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
Cee, Katie!
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sydney
please!
[16:48] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): It takes time
to learn how to brat ... respectfully.
You just do not jump right in. In
a past relationship I thought I understood my Dom and made a small bratty
comment ... and was immediately shut down hard.
That hurt. I never bratted again
and I lost some of the fun part of a relationship. Know your Dom well or face the consequences.
#
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): 100%
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): which is
why extended negotiation periods is good
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): a collar
20 mins into the meeting is usually a recipe for disaster
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): that said
I think your Dominant could have used that as a teaching moment rather than a
"shut you down"
[16:49] Katie (katieWalsh1993 Resident): Yup, yup, I guess I
was trying to say the same a bit in my 'read the room' comment
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
communication is always vital
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good
points Sydney thanks!
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa
thanks for waiting and I think you have the last comment of the day!
[16:50] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): After reading A/all
comments i can agree with some more than others, my opinion is that a Brat in
the D/s Dynamic is simply a creative, playful sub, and it works best in DD/lg
dynamics i dont believe disobedience works for a power exchange Dynamic,
further more, lately what im witnessing more and more is a total lack of
respect rather than playfulness. What Hestia said earlier, even towards other
submissives or people who they don´t have any familiarity with to push that
side. but thats my opinion, at the end of the day there are plenty of roles out
there for people to chose and what dynamic suits them and their partners best,
and please, for all thats sacred! do not allow Brat creative Doms nor Sadists
to go extinct!
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hear
hear!
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think
"time and place" is very important
[16:51] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): yes
[16:51] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): #
[16:52] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): "time and
place" here here
[16:52] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): agreed
[16:52] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): applauds
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As I
switch there are behaviors I might do at home with my Dominant that I'd NEVER
do in public....or I might allow more behaviors at home to my sub than what's
allowed out.
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Katie
said "read the room" and that's really important
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Any
behavior we might do needs to be in context so...just think before
acting...that's true of anything we might do.
[16:53] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Sorry i just wanted to
elaborate on that
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok Nawa
finish up!
[16:55] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): If people start
pushing their role, imagine a sadist just pulling their cane out and swatting
you with it out of the blue. if that is not acceptable than please understand
your bratiness should only come out to the people you have relationships with
and have given expressed consent
[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!
[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
time/place/context/group
[16:56] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): totally agree
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I wonder
if I wore the leather dress to Mass if that would go...
[16:56] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ♫
rimshot ♫
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
"Bless me Father, I'm sinning right now"
[16:56] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): There's definitely a
fine line in 3rd party consent and what is permissible behavior - Here we have
Laz's reminder "Be an adult" "Treat everyone with respect"
:)
[16:56] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): yes!
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok this
was a rousing discussion!
[16:57] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): to the leather
dress, I mean
[16:57] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Their are some kinky
priests outt there, you might get a surprise
[16:57] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): laughs*
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh heh
heh :P
[16:57] RB (RBQuinn Resident): laughs
[16:57] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): if you only knew
[16:57] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): kinky?? not
me..no..never...nope
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): again we
are not here to rag on Brats, just to chat
[16:57] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): C
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and this
ends our discussion of the BDSM acronym!
[16:57] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Thank you Miss
Vanessa!
[16:58] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): We should talk
about religion and D/s and BDSM some time
[16:58] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *shakes her
head* he needs his leathers
[16:58] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): grins at Master
Johan
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): In two
weeks we'll go to more general topics, and as third party consent has come up,
we'll start with that
[16:58] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): Thank you
Vanni! And thanks A/all for a great
discussion!
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): seems to
be a natural segue
[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Thank you Vanni,
Thank you everyone :)
[16:58] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Thank yuou Miss
Vanni!
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Jenine do
you have your comment ready?
[16:58] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): yes Mistress its just
a simple one
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): go ahead
if it's ready
[16:58] Jenine BloodBane (Illana Kuu): I think that in my
perspective as I'm still learning alot, that Bratting ties to being in public
gatherings like example:
I like to joke about Innocent because it adds fun to the
context.
But when I'm with my Miss I most definitely am not a Brat I
respect my Miss to much!#
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): well said
Jenine!
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): See y'all
in two weeks! Enjoy the Festival!
