"Stealth BDSM" -- November 30, 2025

 [16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok let's go ahead and start up!  Happy Thanksgiving weekend to y'all in the States

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[16:40]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!

 

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a little exposition to start us off

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as I blab feel free to put a C or a Q in the queue

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we go over a fun topic, how to do what I like to call "Stealth BDSM"

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As we all know, there are a lot of our friends in the Vanilla world that get rather perturbed by the kind of stuff we do, both in First and Second Lives

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And while most don't care what we do in our own communities, away from their eyes (although some do), they really don't want our kind of lifestyle intruding on them.

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That said, we live in the world as well and at times, based on our roles, that's gonna bleed through as well.

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So let me give an example of a friend in my RL BDSM community (and yes, I have permission to share this anonymously... ;) )

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She is in a 24/7 M/s relationship (as the slave,) and they will go to a restaurant together as an example.  She will wear exactly what he tells her to (always tasteful and not out of place for a vanilla place)

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Down to the jewelry she must wear and what lipstick shade to put on.

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So when they go out, she is exactly as he wants her to look.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Then they go to a restaurant, and she doesn't even get to look at a menu

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He orders for her -- something she likes and will eat of course.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She's not even allowed to speak to the food server unless he gives her a nod or a hand gesture to say it's ok

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (I wonder if subbie hearts are beating a bit faster hearing all this... ;) )

 

[16:46] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   smiles with amusement

 

[16:46] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): nods

 

[16:46] Lil (Liltygar Yalin):   nods

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also when they go to the store, he pushes the cart, but tells her what to get.

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Like "get the milk" or "get that rice there"

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): They get a few looks but few if any ask what's up, most people just mind their biz

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And he said that his cover would be "oh it's my back, she has to get it." lol

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now here in SL, there are sims that do NOT approve of us going in with bondage gear, a leash and whatever might strike our fancy.

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Fogbound, the blues place, at least used to have a sign that said "NO LEASHES ALLOWED."

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And try going into Muddy's wearing anything remotely fetish lol

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've been told my dress was too short and they asked me to change there!

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): their loss!  *wiggles my legs*

 

[16:49] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Muddy's is a trip...

 

[16:49] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   looks surprised

 

[16:49] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier):   snickers knowing the feeling

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh yes, it's a very G rated spot

 

[16:50] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): Ah G would do it

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): To get to the questions for today:  1) do you do stealth BDSM and if so 2) What have been some tactics used in either First or Second Lives to keep the kinky times going and the Vanillas none the wiser?

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan, when you are ready please!

 

[16:52] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): There are some places/groups where we stealth bdsm.  For there Sydney will call me "Papa Bear" vs, "Sir/Master"     they don't mind the collar too much as hers is very jewelry looking so as long as I don't leash her or force her or Kahlan to kneel we can get away with things.        In the past I've had a submissive who was both SL/RL wear a 'anklet' to show she was collared whenever she went out vs. her play collar.   #done

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh nice!!

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Collars are pretty common so I think even at Muddy's, as long as it's not used like you said, no one would say anything.

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now a leash there...instant heart attack, Fortitude Save -8 (sorry a little D&D humor)

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): <- geek

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Interestingly, my friend I was just talking about only wears a collar at home or at the club

 

[16:55] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): Fort + Empathy Diff 6?

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She does wear a locket with a keyhole and charms with his initials, and he wears a locket with a key and her initials

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so in the Vanilla world it looks romantic

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but to us in the know...we know what those symbols mean

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So very nice Johan, cool way to get in the stealth bdsm!

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Lil please!

 

[16:57] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): I absolutely stealth BDSM on the daily. I live the lifestyle in both worlds. I regularly attend munches and events (SPLF for the win!). I am unowned in RL but have several that I go on play dates with. Most munches are in public so there really isn't anything to hide - but when you are wearing a harness or toys under clothes while doing mundane things... it adds erotic fun. Try not to moan at the movie theater with plugs in. Here in SL I find it pretty easy - but my Master isn't really the type to demand anything here. So that does help. My collar is usually a piercing - I haven't been kicked out of a G rated sim yet. #

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Nice to all of that!

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes at munches they don't want us coming in latex....it's not a play party, it's a talk.  But yes to wearing something *under* the mundane clothing!

 

[16:58] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): mmmhmmmm!!!!!

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I agree, as long as we generally fit in, people aren't going to get upset.

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Most people

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's all cool Lil, I'm glad you have a good set of stealth activities going in both worlds!

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks!

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Jewel please!

 

[17:01] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): M'Lady has taken to leashing me in most M rated spaces we travel in. Before we leave home or an adult sim She disables the particles so it's not obvious I'm leashed.  With her honorific being M'Lady it sounds arachic or "Ren Faire" like and most people don't seem to catch it as it's intended.#

 

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good tip with the leash!

 

[17:02] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): It is a fairly easy toggle in Whim

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And M'Lady sounds like you might be doing Steampunk or Victorian RP

 

[17:02] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods with a warm smile

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So that's a nice way to get the kinky stuff going with none the wiser.

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Perfect, thanks for that Jewel!

 

[17:03] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): most welcome Mistress Vanni

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lazarus you are up please!

 

[17:03] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): I went to a RL family function with my then Submissive where they did not know and would not have approved.. My submissive adored her "Sir" comments for me and we needed to adjust. So we trained her to make a simple hand gesture for that occasion for then she wanted me to know she would have added Sir to her comment. She only slipped with a Sir once and no one asked about her hand gesture.  A simple way to keep our dynamic quietly going in the back ground. #

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ooooooo

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's a great one!

 

[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Master" might have been a bit more of a giveaway... ;)

 

[17:04] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): just a bit lol

 

[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just to show  you how serious this can be

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): a Friend here in Xaara gave me permission to tell this short story

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Her friend who is a rl sub had to take her Master to an ER for a medical issue

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and he's scared of needles....so when the nurse said he needed an injection he began to panic

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so she wrapped her arms around him and blurted out "Master, you will be ok" like she does at home

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She said she suddenly realized what she did...and looked ay the nurse who was looking at them bugged eyed

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): eyed

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but he calmed down and got the shot

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): then suddenly the nurse said to her "can you come outside the room"

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): waiting out there was a doctor and a social worker who stated asking if she was ok, and did she need an intervention!

 

[17:07] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Oh gawdddd

 

[17:07] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): oh no

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I know to us it sounds silly

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but to the vanilla world ANYTHING we do is suspect

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So they apparently assumed she was possibly in an abusive relationship and acted as they will

 

[17:08] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): we are trained to consider possible "abuse"

 

[17:08] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Exactly

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So it's why the Stealth has to be kept up

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And your story just brought that to mind, Lazarus

 

[17:09] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): :)

 

[17:10] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods softly

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much for that Lazarus!

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Mr. Darrow please!

 

[17:11] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): This is such a challenging topic.  RL I am the father of two wonderful grown daughters both of whom are in long time RL love relationships so despite the fact their Mom and I were divorced after 11 years, we have raised daughters who 'get love'.  That being said they would quickly notice GFs of Mine, call me Daddy or Sir; my older daughter at about age 20 confronts Me, with her vanilla indignity; so we had a long chat all 3 of us, the younger sister was 19.  It was a mind blowing convo where they asked questions about My life and the choices I make.  The bottom line-- vanilla has trouble with us, but in My view, it is best we stop hiding, yet we also have to be extra careful at the same time in a world ( the US in particular) that seems hell bent on turning back the clock of time on what it is to be human, while still being honored for the walk of humanity you personally are taking. (more)

 

[17:11] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): I do tend to be mostly vanilla in the real world, mostly because it is 'easier' yet if confronted I stand proud.  I see being scorned  ( In RL or SL) as a badge of courage, a badge I am proud to wear.

 

[17:12] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): bravo. unabasedly you.

 

[17:13] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Yet I think we should both be stealth and yet look to over the course of time have our lifestyle to be 'accepted".  There was a time when interracial dating/marriage was unacceptable.  We are called upon to be proud #

 

[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as an aside my "BDSM and the Law" workshop is coming up this Tuesday at 8:30PM (for sure!)

 

[17:13] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   smiles

 

[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Mr. Darrow I love everything you said and bravo to you!

 

[17:14] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods

 

[17:14] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Thank you as an aside my younger daughter gets it My older daughter still thinks I am 'weird' smiles

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's funny I teach sociology at a local college and occasionally I teach a class on social deviance with a week on various sexual "deviance" (from a social point of view) which includes BDSM

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): When I give that lecture I find the students looking at me with interest...."how does she know so much about this"

 

[17:15] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): watching the class react has to be entertaining Vanessa.

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I guess bringing a couple toys in during one lecture was a dead giveaway lol

 

[17:15] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): laughs

 

[17:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Actually, over time several have asked outside of class for more info!

 

[17:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Vanni, corrupting the young just like Socrates!

 

[17:16] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   grins

 

[17:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): at least I won't get hemlocked....yet..

 

[17:16] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): Goooo Mistress! Corrupt them all

 

[17:16] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): the wonderfully weird should unite. I be there's more of us than them.

 

[17:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): bwahahahaha

 

[17:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): at my club we do have a good range of the 'Under 35' gang, makes me happy to see

 

[17:18] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos):   raises my cup of jo to the new arrival

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Mr. Darrow thanks so much for that, I love hearing that we take a stand for what we do

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone else have a comment on some aspect of "Stealth BDSM" either in First or Second Life?

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *peers over at Pilar and Seli over my coffee cup*

 

[17:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or anyone else with a comment at all

 

[17:19] Seli (Seliara Elton):   giggles and shrugs.

 

[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so let me ask a question to close us off

 

[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone can answer this, no "C" please, just think and type

 

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: We've talked in the past about "Third Party Consent"...that people need to give consent to be in any way involved in a scene, and some say that goes all the way to even viewing a scene of any kind outside a club or a lifestyle sim like this (which can include using a leash on a very willing sub).]

 

[09:22] Vanessa Cannoli: That said, does Stealth BDSM somehow break that consent?  If someone figures out what we're doing, are we doing something "wrong," or the fact it's stealth means it's their problem if they "offended?"

 

[09:22] Vanessa Cannoli: Like my friend and her Master at the restaurant

 

[09:23] Vanessa Cannoli: If the server figures it out, is she being dragged into something minus her consent?

 

[09:23] Pilar Raynier: my question to them would be ... why are you studding U/us so intently that you would wonder, as seeing as very subtle

 

[09:23] Seli (seliara.elton): I guess it's a "thing" where if it's stealthy and done well they don't know, so it's on us to make sure we do it right.

 

[09:23] Lil (liltygar.yalin) smiles "Ok, this is a topic that I gave a speech about at a local group about mental health. I am not bashful about talking about the "wrong" ways to do BDSM and I am a firm believer in mental health. But consent can't incorporate everything. Consent is for two people.

 

[09:23] Lil (liltygar.yalin): Not everyone surrounding.

 

[09:24] Lazarus (lazarus.naxos): We are enjoying spices of life you don't get... yes.

 

[09:25] Jewel Addams: I agree with Pilar.  If people are looking that closely at what is happening is it really a question that stealth BDSM is not allowing them consent or is the 3rd party encauching on the couples personal bubble?

 

[09:25] Vanessa Cannoli thinks about Pilar's comment about being 'studded' at a restaurant and thinks that might be an issue :P *giggles*

 

[09:25] Vanessa Cannoli: Well the world thinks we're perverts and we're "forcing it on them"... 🙄

 

[09:25] Pilar Raynier: lol typo !! study'd

 

[09:26] Vanessa Cannoli winks at the lovely Pilar ;)

 

[17:26] Seli (Seliara Elton): I really do think it's on us to keep things under wraps and not drag people into it, but we're not bad people for enjoying kinks

 

[17:26] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): I think that is because most don't really understand the lifestyle. Sex belongs in the bedroom (or play area if allowed)... Mental stimulation belongs everywhere. What is good for some doesn't always have to be good for others.

 

[17:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It does make me think of a possible restaurant RP scene though...*cough*

 

[17:26] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): I think context is everything, we all, even vanilla, have to moderate behavior to setting-I say be mindful of setting, but if I am at a place (RL or SL) where certain behaviors are acceptable, (kissing, holding hands) then shouldn't we do our part to create a society where the vanillas 'see' there are those in their midst who live differently ( as an aside Men dancing together, holding hands, etc.)

 

[17:27] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   grins

 

[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think we all agree that a scene in a public place (like a spank) is an issue that will draw more heat than light

 

[17:28] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): oh absolutely

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But a little stealth fun...as Pilar said...why are you looking at us and listening to what we say away from you?  Mind your biz and we will too.

 

[17:28] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): I wear my shirt that says - i think I deserve a spanking - just about anywhere

 

[17:28] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   grins at Lil

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I agree with Vlad that we should not live under a rock either

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think you do too! ;)

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We all need a good spanking!  (Well subs and switches)...

 

[17:29] Lil (Liltygar Yalin):   grins

 

[17:29] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): sadly spankings are a touchy topic for me...

 

[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We all have our limits Jewel.  No harm or foul in that at all

 

[17:30] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Humbly-I don't want us to 'mind our business' to the extent we go back further in the closet be:  Uus ( BDSM, Gay, interracial dating, and so on- Love is Love)

 

[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed!

 

[17:31] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): I think love and sex are two different things. I agree - love between consenting humans should be acceptable

 

[17:31] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods in agreement with Mistress Vanni's comment and then again at Sir Vlad's

 

[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Or at least "I'll love who I want, you love who you want, and mind your f*ing biz if you don't like it."

 

[17:31] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): Yes!

 

[17:32] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): Agreed Lil.  Romance, Intimacy, and Sex are 3 different areas.

 

[17:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent comments and replies to that question.

 

[17:32] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): Yes Jewel!

 

[17:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Any final comments on our topic today?

 

[17:33] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos):   raises my cup to Poe

 

[17:33] Seli (Seliara Elton): I really liked this one, even though I was quiet

 

[17:34] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): Thank you for having this today Mistress Vanni!

 

[17:34] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods gently

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It was good, and thank you all for being here.  I figure the holiday weekend would draw a smaller crowd but the discussion is always good no matter the number.

 

[17:34] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Thank you Ms Vanni, ty all for sharing :)

 

[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So in two weeks we'll do the last one for the year, "year in review"

"Breaking Up" -- November 16, 2025

  

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have as usual a bit of exposition

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): feel free to put in a C or a Q as I ramble or after then we'll get to the queue

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we talk about something that's never popular but is important.

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We talk a lot about how we meet, what expectations to have in a D/s relationship as it grows...

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): How to maintain it, how to keep each other happy in the D/s framework

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But we don't talk much about *ending* things.

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's never pleasant and it always causes hurt.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But at times it's just necessary

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I think it's important to do this in a responsible way.

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Every relationship I felt I had to end from my side involved me talking directly to the person.

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Not a notecard, not a "breakup" thing on Discord

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Not even just in IM.  I feel that in such situations it's necessary to have inworld proximity.

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I would not break up with a First Life person via a phone call.

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but this is me and how I view things.

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): However, the WORST thing to do to a person is just ghost them.

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and I'd bet a hamburger to each of you (or mushroom burger if vegetarian) that each of us either have had that happen to us or known a person in SL who had it happen

 

[16:48] daks Ravenclaw (Dakota50 Resident): yup..

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In  fact the reason I decided on this is I just read an article on Apple News about how "ghosting" is a major problem for people, especially Millennial age and below.

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ): So today's questions are 1) How do we know that we have reached *that* point where it's just breaking apart and needs to end?  2) What can we do to mitigate the hurt, if anything?  and 3) As this is D/s rather than vanilla, how do the roles of D and s fit here?  Can a Dom just end things by fiat, or should they, and do subs have the right to do this?  (Some say not at all, or they must ask for release).

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Feel free to answer any or all of those or give us your comment on anything relating to this!

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): RB, when ready please

 

[16:53] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I have lost several wonderful subs to RL circumstances changing, usually a RL spouse deciding SL was verboten.  But in a couple of cases, I decided after quite a long time debating with myself, that the sub in question and I were simply mismatched too much for the relationship to continue to be fun and satisfying to us both.  In those two cases, I took Vanni's 'advice' and met one on one, face to face here, and explained as best I could what my opinion was.  It was, indeed, very hard to do.#

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):  nods

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it is

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): the first time I had to do that many years ago the person freaked totally and took a month to get back to any semblance of 'normalcy' -- but I let her say her piece as she processed

 

[16:55] RB (RBQuinn Resident): nods.... I did, also.

 

[16:55] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I've also been ghosted and tossed out on my ear... which is even MORE painful.....

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ghosting is the worst

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and I've that happen to me more times than I'd care to admit

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): just a knife in the heart

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and from people who I TOLD I found that painful, they swore never to do it, and did it

 

[16:56] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ouch!

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyway enough of "Days of Vanni's Whining"

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): RB thanks for that comment to start us off, spot on!

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Wynter please!

 

[16:57] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I think every situation is unique unto itself. There will never be a clear cut: "this is the best way to end a relationship." Sure, there may be generalized ideas of how to go about things, but one's ability to retain that knowledge when in the thick of a break up truly depends on what is causing the break up and what emotions that's brought up. (more)

 

[16:57] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I think some cases of knowing that a relationship has ended are more clear cut than others. D/s relationships thrive on consent, trust and obedience. Think of them as a three-legged stool. You break one of them, it's very likely you may run into a situation where the relationship becomes damaged upon repair. What each person's limit is in a relationship is going to be unique to them, but one thing I think many may agree upon, is our tolerance for what is "acceptable" for many is lower here. The consequences of a break up feel seemingly lessened. (more)

 

[16:58] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): When it comes to how D/s plays into all of this, at least in my eyes, revoking ones consent.. either to Dominate or submit should be reason enough to consider a relationship done, but we have a mixture of "old school" and "new school" values to keep in mind.#

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All well said!

 

[17:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I think just as the virtual nature of SL leads to "hyperspeed" as we've talked about, so it can also lead to faster breakups as you pointed out

 

[17:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and lack of the direct consequences that might come up with First Life breakups

 

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "I just mute and done!" ... can't do that as easily in first life!

 

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wynter all very good points thank you!

 

[17:01] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):  smiles and nods.

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Liss you are up please!

 

[17:02] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): In answer to 3, yes I have broken a relationship off as the sub, and I was right to, it had just run its course. As an aside, with Vanessa having mentioned millennials, there is a thread on the sl forums that seems to suggest we are mostly boomers or Gen X. Finally a further question, what about when it is broken off but both can't actually stay away from each other? #

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): They become friends with virtual benefits? ;)

 

[17:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): C @ Lily

 

[17:03] RB (RBQuinn Resident): BTDT :)   But the boomerang relationships are hard on each

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): sure Wynter

 

[17:03] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): more should you and if so how?

 

[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've never done that myself...when  I broke up I did maintain some decent friendships with people but never back to D/s or romance.  I can't speak for anyone else though

 

[17:04] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I imagine you're asking about the situation of when you have shared places or friends where you'll run into them. I've always found the best approach would be to remain cordial and not try to stir the pot. Yes, feelings may be raw, but letting them spill out won't serve the recently severed couple and will only make one or both look foolish.#

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so creating an alt and stirring the pot is a BAD idea then, Wynter? ;)

 

[17:06] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):  laughs, "To each their own, but we are our own worst devils I think."

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):  checks that one off the list....

 

[17:06] IronWolf (IronWolf Skydancer): Smiles at Liss' question

 

[17:07] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): Actually he stopped it because of rl commitments but whenever he is on sl we just get on too well!

 

[17:07] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Apologies, I meant to Liss.

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As Wynter said, Liss, each relationship is unique

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and for some that still works

 

[17:08] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): np, definitely enough from me now :)

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it sounds like you didn't end things due to bad feelings but to time commitments, so really it sounds like a changed relationship than an ended one, at least to me

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good points and question!

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move on to Mr. Darrow!

 

[17:09] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Thank you Vanni.  As a dominant, it is not easy for me to initiate a break up- when I do it is usually because of a lack of longevity in the bond, or something for Me is abruptly egregious.  I am careful to cite facets that are failing and why, then I look to see if failings are addressed.  I have come to see I have bright lines, and to be fair, if a girl has crossed a line she is not aware of, that is on Me for not letting her know.  Yet if a girl does something, I find fully disheartening, I am quick to act.  (more)

 

[17:10] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): I have gotten less impulsive over time, I like to offer a 48 hour cooling off period where we keep it to ourselves to not divulge, we give each other time to reflect, sleep on it as it were.  However when a girl leaves Me I often see it coming and I am much more civil about the parting.  However, when it comes out of nowhere that stuns me.  I agree with Vanni, I have always tried to do a breakup face to face in SL, usually handing them a NC I have written telling them why, letting them read it, and I listen to the 'fallout'.(more)

 

[17:10] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): My worst breakup in the last year was a girl who's old Master had left SL and ghosted her on Discord.   Then after three months of dating every day, she abruptly tells me she is in touch with the old guy on discord, and "[He] is back in My life" "I have missed him" Can you be My Master in SL and he in Discord.   I used my 48 hour rule, yet it was obvious she had 'left' (though she would not admit it).  I released her.  My lesson from that breakup is I was more "in" then she was, people talk a good game, but are they really 'committed'.  Yet for Me all relationships give grace if I can learn from hardships as much as pleasures. #Done

 

[17:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lots there and all well said

 

[17:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): IMO *most* breakups have clear signs prior, and hopefully mitigation can prevent them via communication...it's where communication has failed that I think the breakup has become inevitable

 

[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and I like your rule...my First Life partner and I do not ever yell at each other...if we get upset we go for a walk first...then come back and talk rationally

 

[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): emotions get in the way fast

 

[17:13] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Agreed sooo much

 

[17:13] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):  nods

 

[17:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's never wise when upset to say the first thing that comes to mind...at least in a relationship...or to your supervisor LOL

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "May I tell thee that thou art a right arsehole?"

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): never helps

 

[17:15] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier):  snickers

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Mr. Darrow all well said and thank you for that!

 

[17:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Danny we come to you please!

 

[17:16] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): thank you Vanessa......there are lots of reasons for a Dom ending a relationship they come from slowly dying to abrubt ends one isnt any easier than the other.  when ending things like vlad said its important to stick to the facts not emotions. emotions change like the wind but facts are steadfast and dont like.

 

[17:16] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): when a sub tells her dom no on something that is already agreed on then thats the end no matter old or new school. especially if the sub only gives vague reasons.  and then wont give reasons as to why.  its a break down of already established rules and a lack of communications.

 

[17:17] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): done

 

[17:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good points!

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree that if a submissive says flat out "no" to something they have agreed to do there is a big issue there.  As that person's Dominant the first question I'd ask is "what's going on here?"

 

[17:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If all I get back is "I'm not doing that" then, as you said, there's no D/s connection there.

 

[17:19] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): not just a im not doing that but vague answers

 

[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'd push more and if they can't specify why then that's a real issue for sure

 

[17:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): One thing we have talked about a lot here at Xaara is what we often call "porch time", where the D and the s for a short time drop role and talk one-on-one.

 

[17:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think a *lot* of problems can be avoided by doing that periodically or when requested

 

[17:21] RB (RBQuinn Resident): A-men to that :)

 

[17:21] daks Ravenclaw (Dakota50 Resident): for sure

 

[17:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): then back to being the hard-ass D after! *giggles*

 

[17:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but some subs feel they *can't* bring things up with their D, "it's not my place to complain."  But it's not complaint, it's relationship.

 

[17:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And that will lead slowly but surely to what we're discussing here today.

 

[17:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Danny, good points, thanks so much!

 

[17:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back to Wynter!

 

[17:24] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Another thing I wanted to touch on, was the question around how to mitigate the hurt. There is no way to fully mitigate the hurt, entering into a relationship with your full heart requires one to accept that they will be hurt, either because the relationship ended due to some incompatibility, or that one of you is no longer part of this world. In light of that, emotional intelligence can count for a lot in these situations. Even in my most traumatizing relationships, I found it in my heart to tell them thank you for the good memories that they gave me. If the relationship was all doom and gloom, it wouldn't have hurt to end it I think. (more)

 

[17:25] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): And for those who may end up in shared spaces afterwards, it's important to realize that with the exception of true safety concerns, that being cordial will usually be your best approach. Give yourself grace though, if you need to take time for yourself.. -take that time-... I can not stress that enough. Just because a relationship is in Second Life vs. Real Life, doesn't make it any less impactful--especially when it ends. (more but unrelated to the above)

 

[17:25] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I want to also comment on what Vanni said about porch time. It can be a VERY useful tool, but everyone has to come to that state of mind on the same playing field. Unfortunately, I've learned over time that some aren't playing by the same rules, either because of feeling that even in that safe space they can't voice their true opinion, or because they have desires to manipulate things to their design. Use your best judgment to figure out if what you are hearing aligns with the actions from that person. The old adage stands true, actions speak far louder than words.#

 

[17:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed Wynter

 

[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): which is why I'm always in favor of protracted "consideration" times rather than meeting to collaring in less time than it takes to run my dishwasher

 

[17:27] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):  nods lots.

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Like Steely Dan said in one song..."You can try to run but  you can't hide from what's inside of you"....and it comes out eventually

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As for shared spaces, as I've ended things face to face and mitigated what I could, I have found that I can share spaces with those folks, with at least courtesy shown to each other.

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's when it's done wrong that it can lead to further antagonizing IMO

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but that also assumes emotional maturity on all persons too

 

[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All well said thanks again!

 

[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Back to RB please with a question...and remember y'all can answer with no C first!

 

[17:30] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I'm curious what this august group think about a situation where a submissive requests release, but it is not granted.  What recourse does the sub have then?  I can't imagine myself refusing if asked to release a sub of mine, but let's say it happens....#

 

[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent question

 

[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): please feel free to answer, no C....and I'd like to hear from subs on this too!

 

[17:31] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I honestly think that's a move of desperation in my eyes. But I'm also uniquely biased towards that situation as I've been in it in the distant past. If someone tells me no, anything beyond that is criminal in my eyes if I persist.#

 

[17:32] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): I am with you RB, I would never not grant that request, but it is part of why I use the 48 rule, to give time to sort though, discern what is best going forward.#

 

[17:32] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): Break the collar, stay civil but if necessary block them (btw I've never done it or had to do it)

 

[17:33] Connie (Constanse Levenque): I had that one time. I was granted a release with a demand to keep in contact.. That made things harder in my eyes as the brake up was tough enough.

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nods

 

[17:34] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): But to Vlad's point, if there is a rule in place.. that would be one thing. But my example I'm using to form my answer wasn't anything of the sort, it was abuse, pure and simple to force conformity.#

 

[17:34] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): But once you broke and no longer under his collar, he really couldn’t make that demand, could he?

 

[17:35] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): in my opion if a sub has asked for release and it is refused then consent has already been retarcted. as a switch i feel that it is within the subs right to run away at that point.

 

[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've never had that happen as every sub I've had save one just ghosted me one day.  Never said why, never said if they were unhappy, just gone.  The one who came and talked to me, we are still good friends, she had a very good reason and of course I gave her release.

 

[17:35] RB (RBQuinn Resident):  nods to Kahlan "It seems like a breakup that is not really a breakup"

 

[17:36] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I agree with Danny -- running away is a reasonable response to denial of release

 

[17:36] Cedric Harcourt (Cedric Harcourt): to Kahlan's point, the implied pressures we place on oneself to be a "good" sub has to be reassessed at times to understand if it is truly required or no longer  personal d/s relationships

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think Vlad's "let's wait 48 hours to talk and be sure this is the best course of action" is great

 

[17:37] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):  nods.

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so it's not just an emotional reaction to something

 

[17:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): that said, if what is happening is abuse...the sub doesn't need to even ask IMO...if it's really abusive and not just "they're such a meanie!"

 

[17:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but everyone is going to be a bit different on what that line of demarcation is....

 

[17:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): any other answers to RB's question?

 

[17:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks RB!  Great question!

 

[17:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We have an anonymous comment next

 

[17:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): [09:40] Coffee Discussion Tracker: Anonymous message: Lots of talk of mitigating hurt, but what happens when the D or s you are breaking up with is also your spouse? Can you keep the vanilla and find D/s with another?

 

[17:43] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Ooof... that's rough.. that'd take a LOT of emotional maturity and security in each person's ability to communicate and (for lack of a better term) negotiate the situation. If you weren't poly or open previously, that's a new discussion to be had and considering you're de-escalating from a more intense relationship, that'll take time to even broach that subject in my eyes without damaging the vanilla relationship.#

 

[17:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'd find it hard to unwind the two relationships honestly

 

[17:44] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Indeed!!

 

[17:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): much less as Wynter said, add a third

 

[17:44] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): are the people in question also in a D/s relationship in RL too?

 

[17:44] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):  nods in agreement with Vanni.

 

[17:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): No idea Danny

 

[17:45] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): if they are then i would have to question how can a D/s relationship switch back to vanilla while the other takes on another dominant

 

[17:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): agreed

 

[17:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): that would be major tough to negotiate

 

[17:46] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): As well if you are going 'poly' should not all 3 parties the two souses and the new D have to 'meet' to discern, who has what power- say I am the D I want you to not ever wear panties, as an example#

 

[17:46] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): agree vlad

 

[17:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Hi dear how was work?  I'm going to Master Blaster's tonight to get whipped and sodomized.  Dinner is on the stove!" (yes a little flippant but...)

 

[17:47] RB (RBQuinn Resident): grins

 

[17:47] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Hub: Oh fun honey, you are lubed right?

 

[17:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL

 

[17:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But seriously there is so much to unpack in such a circumstance

 

[17:49] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I almost feel that would be a nearly impossible situation to navigate truly. Because without more information and inferring from the question, I'm assuming they still want D/s in their life. Making the safe assumption of heteronormativity here at Xaara, asking your former Dominant, now newly again just spouse to have the ability to let another (presuming here) man Dominate them, would take a whole HEAP of emotional intelligence that may be lost if not enough time has passed.#

 

[17:49] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): compersion a word we have in our vocabulary-- but OMG we all need to practice it more in poly

 

[17:49] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): im going to be honest.  if i was my spouse domiant and she wanted to be released and switch to vanilla with me while letting another man dominate her then i dont think that would work

 

[17:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): the person added a second anonymous comment (which I know to share this time)

 

[17:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): [09:49] Coffee Discussion Tracker: Anonymous message: No RL, strictly SL though much is shared. The love is there but D/s has fizzled to more vanilla comforts. Yes, poly, but only vanilla partners at this time

 

[17:51] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Thanks.. that makes the question at least tractable, though still very difficult....

 

[17:51] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): so if they are with their spouse and the new dominant demands she comes to them as her spouce i would have a problem with that. as her new dominant if it told her to come and she didnt i would also have a problem with that

 

[17:52] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I guess if BOTH agree the D/s is 'gone', then poly for D/s could be discussed, but ... wow.

 

[17:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Discussed yes

 

[17:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): taken slowly maybe

 

[17:52] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Compersion :)

 

[17:52] RB (RBQuinn Resident): VERY

 

[17:53] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Compersion is great, but this situation stretches it to the brink of breaking, I fear

 

[17:53] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): That's still a very messy situation to navigate. It all comes down to how they'd feel about the change in that situation. It's not going to be an easy conversation in my eyes, it will be challenging. But it would rely on the relationship you've cultivated as to how it may end up.

 

[17:53] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I agree RB, Compersion relies on security.

 

[17:53] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): think compersion would be a must, Sir Vald, So much compassion and love and empathy would be needed

 

[17:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I don't go into any SL relationship expecting strict monogamy, tbh.  it's too easy to get around and I'd rather talk via compersion and 'share' than  place what might easily be a false expectation

 

[17:54] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): the sub is asking her old dominant to become a standard patner and giving control over to another man.  does her partner have any say in what the dominant is allowed to do or ot do

 

[17:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I would hope, Danny!

 

[17:56] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): if i may add something

 

[17:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): sure!

 

[17:56] daks Ravenclaw (Dakota50 Resident): NO Fear

 

[17:56] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): That would have to be negotiated. I know of many relationships that have a D/s poly partner and a vanilla poly partner and the framework for that has been negotiated extensively between all three parties. I think the important thing here is handling the situation gracefully. Time has to take it's course to be open to even entertaining that idea. Especially as that may have caused some hurt pride.#

 

[17:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): agreed

 

[17:57] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): I am both dominant and submissive.  Miss is strictly dominant.  we are both poly, but we each have needs that the other can not fill.

 

[17:57] Danny Choryrth-Lindsay (Charove1 Resident): i have my submissives that are mine and Miss has hers and there is a boundary between it

 

[17:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): right

 

[17:58] rayne Bowdit (rayne Bowdit): I do wonder if the sub, while caring for their existing dominant has reached a point that they want the D/s back, but do not want to hurt their spouse by not only asking for release but also hoping to end the dynamic entirely..  Are they wanting to make it the other persons choice to end everything?  Deep down do they just want to let one person go and not be the one to end it.  Just a crazy subs thought

 

[18:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): that's awesome RB !

 

[18:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol Cedric :P

 

[18:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you all for being here and giving so many good points.  You truly are the August Assembly!

 

[18:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And have a lovely Sunday!

"Consensual Non-Consent" (CNC) -- October 19. 2025

 [15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Alright.....we've dithered long enough, let's get started

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Although this time it's a jack-o-lantern!

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:47]  (Jack O' Lantern Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok today is a topic that can be rather controversial...Consensual Non-Consent, or what's usually known as "CNC"

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a bit of exposition as usual

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So drop a "C" or "Q" in as thoughts come to mind and after my screed we'll go to the queue]

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):  grabs a sheaf of notes

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): CNC is one of those topics that cuts a couple ways...some love it, some are like "who the heck would do that?"

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The basic idea is that the Dominant and S-Type *negotiate* a scene to where the Top/Dominant has full control over those aspects of it.  The s-type or bottom will not safeword to those things.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now some people think this means the S-Type is ripe for abuse here.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): IF done wrong, I'd agree.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But there are important steps that need to be taken

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): First...a LOT of negotiation over exactly what the CNC elements are going to be

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some equate this activity with "rape scenes."  such a scene is certainly possible, but it doesn't have to be what appears to be non-consensual sex

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it could be something like "I'm going to force you to be my maid, you will do exactly as I order and I will beat you for infractions."

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The persons involved would discuss what the 'maid activities' are and what the 'punishments' would be for 'infractions'.

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): then the scene is on, the infractions and punishments agreed upon happen and every has a good time.

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): the important thing is that the s-type who is the 'maid' agrees to not safeword or stop the scene as long as those agreed upon activities are going on

 

[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Because they gave consent prior

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now if the Top/Dominant decides to "add" things not agreed upon, the s-type has every right to stop the scene.  it now really is non-consensual.

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): this kind of play requires a LOT of knowledge of each other and trust.

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): this is not something to be done as a casual scene IMO.  your mileage may vary, of course

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So my questions for today are:  1) Is this in your wheelhouse?  Do Y/you enjoy CNC?  If so, what's enjoyable in your opinion, and 2) do you think this perhaps dangerous and leading to negative outcomes?  There is no right or wrong here, we're talking about personal takes on this, not moral absolutes.

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'll give y'all a min to think and drop the C or Q in the queue

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Liss when you are ready please!

 

[15:58] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): A couple of things - first a question back, do you see CNC differently between rl and sl? ... now I'll keep typing

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): sounds good!

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): After you type your comment, Liss, I'll open that question to the floor

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): let's get that in first

 

[16:00] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): One occasion in sl is the use of rlv relays, occasionally but rarely I switch my rlv relay to Auto, so I don't get asked. That seems a form of CNC to me, maybe I've negotiated with the region I'm willing to do it in. #

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I would think so, Liss

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You are giving consent to be grabbed in that sim

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and while you can get out of any situation there is still the thrill that someone might well grab you and do something "horrible"...or maybe really horrible?

 

[16:02] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):  nods

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): does anyone want to comment on Liss' question about First and Second Life differences regarding CNC?

 

[16:03] taryn (Taryn Topaz): No ma'am

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): just go ahead

 

[16:03] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think both were spot on :)

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): no C required to answer

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In my opinion, Liss, I see a very clear difference

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In First Life one has to be very, very careful about whom they'd get into a CNC scene with

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Trust is paramount, because a lot of responsibity is on the Dominant or Top....if something is going sideways, they have to stop the scene]

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And if I have agreed to not stop the scene, the Top/Dominant has to know me, know what's going on, and take that responsibility

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Here the fact it's virtual mitigages *some* of that as physical harm is not usually an issue (unless mirroring is going on)

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but psychological and emotional harm are still real outcomes

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So yeah different in some ways but participants must still be very careful.

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Any other comments?

 

[16:07] ella (ellabi Resident): insecure if it is a meningsless input but what the heck...C

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): just say C :)

 

[16:07] ella (ellabi Resident): I have never used safeword since I only submit to dominants after a deep get to know chat. I have not thought about this concept since with deep trust one want to obey totally. In some way with Master it is always CNC since I trust him never to abuse me. He only push me in a thoughtful way that is beneficial for both.  perhaps not a meningful input but thats all I have on this speciic subject matter. I can ad that I am house servant by own choice in RL, perhaps not even seen as lifestyle but with similiarites. (so certainly no need for talks about CNC or safewords in RL smilles).ps... I do mirroring with Master, only with him om command.#

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ella...first you put in the C and then you are in the queue

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): just so you know

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): what you brought up is something I do want to talk about so first let me get Johan's comment and then we'll come back to that.

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan, go ahead please and then we'll circle back to Ella

[16:10] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I had the early misconception that CNC= Forced/Rape type scenes myself until rather recently when a discussion on CNC was either in a Facebook group or Threads discussion that opened my eyes.

Pretty much ANY scene that involves a "Noo!! "  "Stop!! That hurts!" (without using a agreed upon Safeword) Can be considered consensual non-consent which was an interesting way to look at it.     It is important to note that while CNC the /s type agrees to not safeword within the boundaries they STILL 100% CAN if something happens that needs them to.; even with consensual non-consent - Consent can be revoked at any time ( by either party!)

In that aspect I think CNC is in many people's wheelhouses more than they expect - but I think like ANY Kink related activity there is a degree of danger (part of the fun!) and there could be negative outcomes based on miscommunication, inexperience by either/all parties,  etc.   #Done

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That is an interesting take!

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and yes of course, the s-type can always in the end yell the safeword or just "Stop now!" and that better stop the scene

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or we move into abusive behavior

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Really IMO, a CNC scene is what you described, a scene in which it's negotiated that things liked and wanted will be done so the sub/bottom has no need to safeword

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): even though it appears they're screaming "OH GOD NO!  STOP!"

 

[16:13] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): What they are really screaming "Yes More ! Harder Daddy!"

 

[16:13] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): (coffee and sugar from donuts kicked in )

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): this is why trust is so paramount

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): the bottom *knows* that the top/Dominant will go only so far

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so they can immerse fully in the scene]

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): even though in theory the Dom can do "anything they want" in the negotiated area

 

[16:14] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): like rope, i know i can sink and bliss out cause someone will keep me from drowning

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But if I met some "Top" at the Pier and in ten mins they wanted me to go do a CNC with them ....no no no, NO.]

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Great perspective there Johan, thanks!

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And thank you Liss as well.

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I want to go back to Ella's comment a moment then we'll move to Kahlan and taryn

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ella what you described is more of a CNC D/s connection rather than a scene

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some find that a bit more disturbing than "just" a CNC scene

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but IMO I think it's just a "total power exchange" in which the submissive/slave gives over total consent to their Dominant, at least in the areas negotiated

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): going from a scene to a lifestyle

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so let me ask a question to the group -- feel free to answer, no C.

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): When a submissive/slave says "I make no decisions, Master/Mistress makes them all for me" is that to be seen as an issue, case by case look and see if all is well, or not an issue at all?

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (That to me is the total TPE/CNC sort of D/s connection)

 

[16:21] ella (ellabi Resident): It can be a severe issue but also no issuue at all depdning on the realtion

 

[16:21] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): It wouldn't work for me, but each person or couple is different.

 

[16:22] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I would have to know more about the situation before making an informed opinion.  In some cases it could 100% be a Consensual TPE - others it could be coerced abuse.

 

[16:22] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): If that is what you negotiated for, there is no problem. But if its someone you just met here, making RL decisions for you... that is a hella pause. but then again if you aren't to make decisions about your clothing but you are to make all your own food choices.... Its all a sliding scale of mutual satisfaction and negotiation

 

[16:23] taryn (Taryn Topaz): I would think if the sub/slave is happy, healthy, and showing no signs of abuse, than it is just their agreed connection and all is well. If showing signs of abuse or they are not happy or healthy, than someone should step in and make sure their is no abuse happening.

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All very good points!

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some submissives really do have what we call the "slave" kind of personality, and are happiest when making no decisions, or as few as possible

 

[16:24] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): I think that watching from the outside...see the interactions between the Dom/Sub....see if you perceive abuse or healthy relationship...but until you do that...don't get between a Dom and sub

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and if the relationship is healthy it's not an issue

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree Rachel

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): fine to IM the sub and ask if all is well

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): making public comments unless clear abuse is going on is tricky

 

[16:25] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): I think that is sometimes a problem, staying out of it. i see something fishy and i go into protection mode especially if i see the sub is a baby in SL years. I'll message and ask if everything is okay

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Although from all my training in domestic violence, i will tell you that if you ask a victim of abuse if they're being hurt, they will almost always say "no"

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right Kahlan

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And in the end, there is only so much we can do

 

[16:27] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): sometimes being a friend is all we can do at the moment if abuse is going on

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But this is the thing with CNC....it *appears* abusive...and it's hard to tell where that line from fun CNC to actual abuse is

 

[16:27] taryn (Taryn Topaz): sometimes they are unaware that they are being treated poorly, they accept the abuse out of their love for their Dom or they have been made to feel they deserve the abuse

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes good points!

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Goddess, y'all are so right on!  This is why I love doing this discussion! ♥

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): All well said thank you!

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Ella!

 

[16:28] ella (ellabi Resident): thank you Vanessa and all

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok Kahlan let's move to your delayed comment!

 

[16:29] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): 1 -no, not in my wheelhouse in that I have experienced or have great knowledge but I do think there could be interesting implications. I see this is a lot of the dollification and pony by force which I could lean into with the right partner. But there are a lot of little moving parts that would need to click into place just so in order for that to be unlocked.

2 -Just like in anything with D/s or BDSM there can ALWAYS be negative outcomes ranging from small to scared shitless and never gonna try anything ever again. But this is again where knowing yourself and knowing the play partner you are with comes into play

 

[16:29] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): I also believe that CNC is making a RL ...resurgence (questionable word choice but its what i'm coming up with right now) with a lot of the New Adult fiction coming out. I've talked about some of this with Beau but the actions of the men/'doms' in those books is very much non-consensual in some areas but I can see where that would be fodder for fantasy and spark CNC conversations. I knot it did for me. Something I saw as off the table forever now has me thinking 'maybe, possibly, how much time do we have to plan and can i get nervous giggles and not kill the mood?' haha##

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As long as such things are fantasy and keep CNC *consent* at the top it's all good

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): My concern is like with the 50 Shades books and movies.....that it will give people that don't get what we do a rather warped view of it

 

[16:31] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Its definitely a resurgence thanks to the Dark Romance genre of books becoming more and more popular. I'm seeing it as a return to the '50 Shades' crowd jumping in head first without necessarily understanding or knowing SSC/RACK/PRICK.

 

[16:31] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): Nods, and I think that is where some lines get blurred, especially with the stalking books, it becomes coerced and not blatant (I'm think specifically of the Haunting Adaline and LORDS books)

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we had to stop a LOT of scenes at the RL club when newbies with no knowledge jumped in

 

[16:32] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I've already seen in some of the book spaces (as a Kinky-Smut Author myself)  the Dark Romance Girlies posting things about Gunplay/Knifeplay including using loaded guns to penetrate and I'm like "NO NO NO NO!!!"   If you want to play with that - use a Rubber training gun that cannot fire bullets.

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yeah...ugh

 

[16:33] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): <<well trained book girlie, though, lol

 

[16:33] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): <3

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've read actual victimization surveys where women say they were raped with loaded guns...this is First Life, not SL or a book...

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Not in any way trying to equate safe fantasy with that

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but people with crazed ideas are out there

 

[16:34] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): And that is heartbreaking, cause had I not read it, my brain wouldn't have gone there at all. It was 'at gun point' not this was the object

 

[16:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Exactly Vanni -    Same with the DR readers who went all sexy time "He's sooo hot" about the Wade Wilson guy

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): why some women fall for horrible people like serial murderers is beyond me

 

[16:35] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): The 'danger' ?

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Richard Ramirez (the Night Stalker) getting real marriage proposals from women for example

 

[16:35] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): or "try it you may like it"?

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ugh

 

[16:36] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): grins at Miss Vanni...not that I encourage you to try it

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyway done safely with a trusted partner as Kahlan said, have fun!

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):  winks at Rachel

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I study crime too extensively to be one of 'em :P

 

[16:36] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  winks back to Miss Vanni

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Kahlan thank you, that was spot on and well said!

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we got to taryn with a question I apologize for the delay.

 

[16:37] taryn (Taryn Topaz): What is this mirroring you spoke earlier about? I'm unfamiliar with this term in D/s lifestyle. #

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh!

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Mirroring is when the bottom/sub "mirrors" what is being done to some degree here in SL]

 

[16:38] ella (ellabi Resident): its yummy smiles

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so if your avi is being spanked, you spank yourself

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone else can comment on any mirroring you've done

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or we can make that the next topic!

 

 

[16:40] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Lovense is all I am going to say

 

[16:40] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Spanking, using a rubber band to 'snap' where a 'crop' hits, tugging your own hair during a hair pull..

 

[16:40] ella (ellabi Resident): only with Master on command but sponetous with others now and then....

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think that *will* be the discussion topic in two weeks

 

[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): clothes pins, etc..    I swear one of these days I AM going to write my book "101 BDSM toys found in your Kitchen"

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): what it is, concerns, how to do it safely

 

[16:41] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Strips comes to mind with a frying spatula and stove

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee yes!

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but there has to be ethical background to it

 

[16:42] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Love Bill Murray in that scene

 

[16:42] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): wooden spoon

 

[16:42] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): no burners going?

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): chainsaw....

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)

 

[16:42] taryn (Taryn Topaz): what? NO! *laughs*

 

[16:42] ella (ellabi Resident): no mirroring with chainsaw

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL

 

[16:42] ella (ellabi Resident): smiles

 

[16:43] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): that's a different kind of movie

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): truth!

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So taryn thanks for the topic, we'll rattle that around more in two weeks

 

[16:43] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Texas Chainsaw Kink Club

 

[16:43] taryn (Taryn Topaz): my pleasure Miss

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOLOL!

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): omg that's hilarious

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Master Leatherface will now do his "demo"

 

[16:44] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): hey...take that to the northern clim in winter for Ice Sculptures

 

[16:44] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Takes on a whole new meaning from the film line "Such a good boy"

 

[16:44] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Edward Scizzorhands

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):  snickers

 

[16:44] ella (ellabi Resident): 12 angry men

 

[16:44] taryn (Taryn Topaz): That sounded like a newb question but I swear I'm not new, just a little out of touch from hiatus. *giggles*

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The most..edgy..first life workshop I ever attended was one on..I kid you not...."forced clownification"

 

[16:45] taryn (Taryn Topaz):  looks shocked

 

[16:45] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): It wasn't a noob question at alL Taryn ; I've beeninto Kink and online BDSM since the late 90's and only heard the term Mirroring the past two years

 

[16:45] taryn (Taryn Topaz): ahhh that makes sense, I've been gone about 4 years.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): two guys in full clown outfits talked about it and then did a demo scene of forced clownification on a subby guy

 

[16:45] taryn (Taryn Topaz): thank you Sir

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): with makeup and horns and....yeah it was wild

 

[16:46] taryn (Taryn Topaz): wow

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I am not kidding either!]

 

[16:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I can imagine the scene "My what big shoes you've got..."

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hey as long as it's consensual

 

[16:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "Is that a Ballon dog in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"

 

[16:47] taryn (Taryn Topaz): clowns are not sexy to me!! *shakes my head*

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but I aint' doing a CNC scene with Master Binky the Clown

 

[16:47] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): sthaaaap, Beau, lol

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:47] taryn (Taryn Topaz):  laughs

 

[16:47] Kahlan ღ Dark (wobbles08 Resident): #cringe

 

[16:47] taryn (Taryn Topaz): you say clown and I picture pennywise

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): they pointed out that as people often fear clowns, that made the scene that much more "edgy"

 

[16:47] taryn (Taryn Topaz): yep not sexy

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it's not supposed to be sexy at all, taryn ;0

 

[16:48] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Not 'sexy' but scary or even Humiliation can be its own sort of BDSM kinky fun

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): right!

 

[16:48] ella (ellabi Resident): i get the question from strangers often "do you mirror?" the answer of course "yes but not with you" asking that before talking and communicating is a total nono

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): any final comments on CNC before we call it a day?

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok this was a great talk on a topic that gets a lot of questions

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): thank you all for your excellent thoughts and comments

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): you are the reason I lead these things

 

[16:49] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident):  puts on a smiling yellow face and growls "Have a NICE day....bwahhahhahh"

 

[16:50] taryn (Taryn Topaz): thank you Miss Vanni

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:50] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): thank you all...another enjoyable Sunday morning

 

[16:50] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Thank you Vanni!  it was a great topic and great discussion.  Thank you everyone enjoy the rest of your Sunday OR ELSE! (just kidding)