"Stealth BDSM" -- November 30, 2025

 [16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok let's go ahead and start up!  Happy Thanksgiving weekend to y'all in the States

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[16:40]  (Coffee Discussion Tracker): Welcome all to today's discussion!

 

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a little exposition to start us off

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as I blab feel free to put a C or a Q in the queue

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we go over a fun topic, how to do what I like to call "Stealth BDSM"

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As we all know, there are a lot of our friends in the Vanilla world that get rather perturbed by the kind of stuff we do, both in First and Second Lives

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And while most don't care what we do in our own communities, away from their eyes (although some do), they really don't want our kind of lifestyle intruding on them.

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That said, we live in the world as well and at times, based on our roles, that's gonna bleed through as well.

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So let me give an example of a friend in my RL BDSM community (and yes, I have permission to share this anonymously... ;) )

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She is in a 24/7 M/s relationship (as the slave,) and they will go to a restaurant together as an example.  She will wear exactly what he tells her to (always tasteful and not out of place for a vanilla place)

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Down to the jewelry she must wear and what lipstick shade to put on.

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So when they go out, she is exactly as he wants her to look.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Then they go to a restaurant, and she doesn't even get to look at a menu

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He orders for her -- something she likes and will eat of course.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She's not even allowed to speak to the food server unless he gives her a nod or a hand gesture to say it's ok

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (I wonder if subbie hearts are beating a bit faster hearing all this... ;) )

 

[16:46] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   smiles with amusement

 

[16:46] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): nods

 

[16:46] Lil (Liltygar Yalin):   nods

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also when they go to the store, he pushes the cart, but tells her what to get.

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Like "get the milk" or "get that rice there"

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): They get a few looks but few if any ask what's up, most people just mind their biz

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And he said that his cover would be "oh it's my back, she has to get it." lol

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now here in SL, there are sims that do NOT approve of us going in with bondage gear, a leash and whatever might strike our fancy.

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Fogbound, the blues place, at least used to have a sign that said "NO LEASHES ALLOWED."

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And try going into Muddy's wearing anything remotely fetish lol

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've been told my dress was too short and they asked me to change there!

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): their loss!  *wiggles my legs*

 

[16:49] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Muddy's is a trip...

 

[16:49] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   looks surprised

 

[16:49] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier):   snickers knowing the feeling

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh yes, it's a very G rated spot

 

[16:50] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): Ah G would do it

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): To get to the questions for today:  1) do you do stealth BDSM and if so 2) What have been some tactics used in either First or Second Lives to keep the kinky times going and the Vanillas none the wiser?

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan, when you are ready please!

 

[16:52] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): There are some places/groups where we stealth bdsm.  For there Sydney will call me "Papa Bear" vs, "Sir/Master"     they don't mind the collar too much as hers is very jewelry looking so as long as I don't leash her or force her or Kahlan to kneel we can get away with things.        In the past I've had a submissive who was both SL/RL wear a 'anklet' to show she was collared whenever she went out vs. her play collar.   #done

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh nice!!

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Collars are pretty common so I think even at Muddy's, as long as it's not used like you said, no one would say anything.

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now a leash there...instant heart attack, Fortitude Save -8 (sorry a little D&D humor)

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): <- geek

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Interestingly, my friend I was just talking about only wears a collar at home or at the club

 

[16:55] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): Fort + Empathy Diff 6?

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She does wear a locket with a keyhole and charms with his initials, and he wears a locket with a key and her initials

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so in the Vanilla world it looks romantic

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but to us in the know...we know what those symbols mean

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So very nice Johan, cool way to get in the stealth bdsm!

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Lil please!

 

[16:57] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): I absolutely stealth BDSM on the daily. I live the lifestyle in both worlds. I regularly attend munches and events (SPLF for the win!). I am unowned in RL but have several that I go on play dates with. Most munches are in public so there really isn't anything to hide - but when you are wearing a harness or toys under clothes while doing mundane things... it adds erotic fun. Try not to moan at the movie theater with plugs in. Here in SL I find it pretty easy - but my Master isn't really the type to demand anything here. So that does help. My collar is usually a piercing - I haven't been kicked out of a G rated sim yet. #

 

[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Nice to all of that!

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes at munches they don't want us coming in latex....it's not a play party, it's a talk.  But yes to wearing something *under* the mundane clothing!

 

[16:58] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): mmmhmmmm!!!!!

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I agree, as long as we generally fit in, people aren't going to get upset.

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Most people

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's all cool Lil, I'm glad you have a good set of stealth activities going in both worlds!

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks!

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Jewel please!

 

[17:01] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): M'Lady has taken to leashing me in most M rated spaces we travel in. Before we leave home or an adult sim She disables the particles so it's not obvious I'm leashed.  With her honorific being M'Lady it sounds arachic or "Ren Faire" like and most people don't seem to catch it as it's intended.#

 

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good tip with the leash!

 

[17:02] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): It is a fairly easy toggle in Whim

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And M'Lady sounds like you might be doing Steampunk or Victorian RP

 

[17:02] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods with a warm smile

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So that's a nice way to get the kinky stuff going with none the wiser.

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Perfect, thanks for that Jewel!

 

[17:03] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): most welcome Mistress Vanni

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lazarus you are up please!

 

[17:03] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): I went to a RL family function with my then Submissive where they did not know and would not have approved.. My submissive adored her "Sir" comments for me and we needed to adjust. So we trained her to make a simple hand gesture for that occasion for then she wanted me to know she would have added Sir to her comment. She only slipped with a Sir once and no one asked about her hand gesture.  A simple way to keep our dynamic quietly going in the back ground. #

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ooooooo

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's a great one!

 

[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Master" might have been a bit more of a giveaway... ;)

 

[17:04] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): just a bit lol

 

[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just to show  you how serious this can be

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): a Friend here in Xaara gave me permission to tell this short story

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Her friend who is a rl sub had to take her Master to an ER for a medical issue

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and he's scared of needles....so when the nurse said he needed an injection he began to panic

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so she wrapped her arms around him and blurted out "Master, you will be ok" like she does at home

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): She said she suddenly realized what she did...and looked ay the nurse who was looking at them bugged eyed

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): eyed

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but he calmed down and got the shot

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): then suddenly the nurse said to her "can you come outside the room"

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): waiting out there was a doctor and a social worker who stated asking if she was ok, and did she need an intervention!

 

[17:07] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Oh gawdddd

 

[17:07] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): oh no

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I know to us it sounds silly

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but to the vanilla world ANYTHING we do is suspect

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So they apparently assumed she was possibly in an abusive relationship and acted as they will

 

[17:08] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): we are trained to consider possible "abuse"

 

[17:08] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Exactly

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So it's why the Stealth has to be kept up

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And your story just brought that to mind, Lazarus

 

[17:09] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): :)

 

[17:10] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods softly

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much for that Lazarus!

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Mr. Darrow please!

 

[17:11] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): This is such a challenging topic.  RL I am the father of two wonderful grown daughters both of whom are in long time RL love relationships so despite the fact their Mom and I were divorced after 11 years, we have raised daughters who 'get love'.  That being said they would quickly notice GFs of Mine, call me Daddy or Sir; my older daughter at about age 20 confronts Me, with her vanilla indignity; so we had a long chat all 3 of us, the younger sister was 19.  It was a mind blowing convo where they asked questions about My life and the choices I make.  The bottom line-- vanilla has trouble with us, but in My view, it is best we stop hiding, yet we also have to be extra careful at the same time in a world ( the US in particular) that seems hell bent on turning back the clock of time on what it is to be human, while still being honored for the walk of humanity you personally are taking. (more)

 

[17:11] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): I do tend to be mostly vanilla in the real world, mostly because it is 'easier' yet if confronted I stand proud.  I see being scorned  ( In RL or SL) as a badge of courage, a badge I am proud to wear.

 

[17:12] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): bravo. unabasedly you.

 

[17:13] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Yet I think we should both be stealth and yet look to over the course of time have our lifestyle to be 'accepted".  There was a time when interracial dating/marriage was unacceptable.  We are called upon to be proud #

 

[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as an aside my "BDSM and the Law" workshop is coming up this Tuesday at 8:30PM (for sure!)

 

[17:13] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   smiles

 

[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Mr. Darrow I love everything you said and bravo to you!

 

[17:14] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods

 

[17:14] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Thank you as an aside my younger daughter gets it My older daughter still thinks I am 'weird' smiles

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's funny I teach sociology at a local college and occasionally I teach a class on social deviance with a week on various sexual "deviance" (from a social point of view) which includes BDSM

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): When I give that lecture I find the students looking at me with interest...."how does she know so much about this"

 

[17:15] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): watching the class react has to be entertaining Vanessa.

 

[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I guess bringing a couple toys in during one lecture was a dead giveaway lol

 

[17:15] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): laughs

 

[17:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Actually, over time several have asked outside of class for more info!

 

[17:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Vanni, corrupting the young just like Socrates!

 

[17:16] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   grins

 

[17:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): at least I won't get hemlocked....yet..

 

[17:16] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): Goooo Mistress! Corrupt them all

 

[17:16] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos): the wonderfully weird should unite. I be there's more of us than them.

 

[17:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): bwahahahaha

 

[17:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): at my club we do have a good range of the 'Under 35' gang, makes me happy to see

 

[17:18] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos):   raises my cup of jo to the new arrival

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Mr. Darrow thanks so much for that, I love hearing that we take a stand for what we do

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone else have a comment on some aspect of "Stealth BDSM" either in First or Second Life?

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *peers over at Pilar and Seli over my coffee cup*

 

[17:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or anyone else with a comment at all

 

[17:19] Seli (Seliara Elton):   giggles and shrugs.

 

[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so let me ask a question to close us off

 

[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone can answer this, no "C" please, just think and type

 

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: We've talked in the past about "Third Party Consent"...that people need to give consent to be in any way involved in a scene, and some say that goes all the way to even viewing a scene of any kind outside a club or a lifestyle sim like this (which can include using a leash on a very willing sub).]

 

[09:22] Vanessa Cannoli: That said, does Stealth BDSM somehow break that consent?  If someone figures out what we're doing, are we doing something "wrong," or the fact it's stealth means it's their problem if they "offended?"

 

[09:22] Vanessa Cannoli: Like my friend and her Master at the restaurant

 

[09:23] Vanessa Cannoli: If the server figures it out, is she being dragged into something minus her consent?

 

[09:23] Pilar Raynier: my question to them would be ... why are you studding U/us so intently that you would wonder, as seeing as very subtle

 

[09:23] Seli (seliara.elton): I guess it's a "thing" where if it's stealthy and done well they don't know, so it's on us to make sure we do it right.

 

[09:23] Lil (liltygar.yalin) smiles "Ok, this is a topic that I gave a speech about at a local group about mental health. I am not bashful about talking about the "wrong" ways to do BDSM and I am a firm believer in mental health. But consent can't incorporate everything. Consent is for two people.

 

[09:23] Lil (liltygar.yalin): Not everyone surrounding.

 

[09:24] Lazarus (lazarus.naxos): We are enjoying spices of life you don't get... yes.

 

[09:25] Jewel Addams: I agree with Pilar.  If people are looking that closely at what is happening is it really a question that stealth BDSM is not allowing them consent or is the 3rd party encauching on the couples personal bubble?

 

[09:25] Vanessa Cannoli thinks about Pilar's comment about being 'studded' at a restaurant and thinks that might be an issue :P *giggles*

 

[09:25] Vanessa Cannoli: Well the world thinks we're perverts and we're "forcing it on them"... 🙄

 

[09:25] Pilar Raynier: lol typo !! study'd

 

[09:26] Vanessa Cannoli winks at the lovely Pilar ;)

 

[17:26] Seli (Seliara Elton): I really do think it's on us to keep things under wraps and not drag people into it, but we're not bad people for enjoying kinks

 

[17:26] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): I think that is because most don't really understand the lifestyle. Sex belongs in the bedroom (or play area if allowed)... Mental stimulation belongs everywhere. What is good for some doesn't always have to be good for others.

 

[17:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It does make me think of a possible restaurant RP scene though...*cough*

 

[17:26] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): I think context is everything, we all, even vanilla, have to moderate behavior to setting-I say be mindful of setting, but if I am at a place (RL or SL) where certain behaviors are acceptable, (kissing, holding hands) then shouldn't we do our part to create a society where the vanillas 'see' there are those in their midst who live differently ( as an aside Men dancing together, holding hands, etc.)

 

[17:27] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   grins

 

[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think we all agree that a scene in a public place (like a spank) is an issue that will draw more heat than light

 

[17:28] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): oh absolutely

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But a little stealth fun...as Pilar said...why are you looking at us and listening to what we say away from you?  Mind your biz and we will too.

 

[17:28] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): I wear my shirt that says - i think I deserve a spanking - just about anywhere

 

[17:28] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   grins at Lil

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I agree with Vlad that we should not live under a rock either

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think you do too! ;)

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We all need a good spanking!  (Well subs and switches)...

 

[17:29] Lil (Liltygar Yalin):   grins

 

[17:29] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): sadly spankings are a touchy topic for me...

 

[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We all have our limits Jewel.  No harm or foul in that at all

 

[17:30] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Humbly-I don't want us to 'mind our business' to the extent we go back further in the closet be:  Uus ( BDSM, Gay, interracial dating, and so on- Love is Love)

 

[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed!

 

[17:31] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): I think love and sex are two different things. I agree - love between consenting humans should be acceptable

 

[17:31] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods in agreement with Mistress Vanni's comment and then again at Sir Vlad's

 

[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Or at least "I'll love who I want, you love who you want, and mind your f*ing biz if you don't like it."

 

[17:31] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): Yes!

 

[17:32] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams): Agreed Lil.  Romance, Intimacy, and Sex are 3 different areas.

 

[17:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent comments and replies to that question.

 

[17:32] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): Yes Jewel!

 

[17:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Any final comments on our topic today?

 

[17:33] Lazarus (Lazarus Naxos):   raises my cup to Poe

 

[17:33] Seli (Seliara Elton): I really liked this one, even though I was quiet

 

[17:34] Lil (Liltygar Yalin): Thank you for having this today Mistress Vanni!

 

[17:34] Jewel Addams (Jewel Addams):   nods gently

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It was good, and thank you all for being here.  I figure the holiday weekend would draw a smaller crowd but the discussion is always good no matter the number.

 

[17:34] Vlad (VladDarrow Resident): Thank you Ms Vanni, ty all for sharing :)

 

[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So in two weeks we'll do the last one for the year, "year in review"