[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Our
discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type
"C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a
question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you
wish to retract either your C or your Q.
If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just
say "Q @ [name]"
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend
to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions
directed at a person's comment to the top.
The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the
order.
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If a
person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C"
to reply, replies to the question will be open.
Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Please
note the next line: Please keep further
greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy! Thank you! ♥
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The
archive for this Klatch can be found here:
https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/
It houses current and many older discussions.
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): With that
out of the way, we'll begin.
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As usual
I have my usual exposition to start
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so as I
yammer on a bit please put a C or a Q in the queue and then we'll get to the
comments
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Two weeks
ago our topic was "Third Party Consent" -- what are the ethical
requirements about people our scenes in public?
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We had a
rousing discussion on that and it is the current discussion archived on the
blog.
[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So, the
questions for today for this august assembly are:
[16:54] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): smirks at Vanni's
offer...
[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): (the life
of a switch..)
[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): 1) Do we
really need to be "risk aware" in a virtual world? and 2) If so, to
what level? The same as in First Life if
we were doing a scene, or is some lesser form based on the people and the scene
in question ok? Would you do something
here in SL you would never do in First Life?
[16:57] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I think that
anybody who pretends that no harm can come in the activities that we or other
people do is just fooling themselves .I have been personally harmed by such a
cavalier attitude and I know of others that would as well I am not one of the
people who believes that a first life is the only thing that's real in fact we
have first life we have second life It's all life and it's all very real
because the people doing it are real so I think that do care and risk awareness
or critical elements in what we do even if it's just to be safe .
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree
100%
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm not
going to ask but I will assume that most of us...maybe all...have felt some
level of hurt over things that have occurred here. I have, several times.
[16:59] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I think the second
part of your question is just as important which is who decides And I think the
person who decides is the person who can be hurt worse
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): how so?
[17:01] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): I think that part
of my negotiation and part of what all of those conversations are about is to
determine what risk is there and what can I do as a practitioner to minimize
that risk if that is taking extra time in order to be sure that my partner is
comfortable with where we're going or if there's something else that needs to
be discussed I don't take what somebody says in a profile for example like
loving consensual non consent as just something that can stand alone I think
that a thorough investigation of what could possibly be going on is worth every
second when it comes to somebody's security and deriving real joy out of what
we do
[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, just
because it's in a profile, it's not a "contract" or a simple set of
instructions that will suffice.
[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And god
forbid it was an Ikea set of instructions...lol
[17:02] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): :)
[17:02] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): a whole new level of
masochism
[17:02] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): hahahah
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Although
I'd like to see the little Ikea guy with a flogger and a sub tied on an Ikea
frame named "TORTUREDESK"
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ahem
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): sorry
[17:03] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): giggles
[17:03] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): rins
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Shayne
that is on spot on and I think very important to keep in mind.
[17:03] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *messages Catie 'a
whole new thing to do with your gifted and talented burned out brat submissive
with a praise kink' Give them a set of
Ikea instructions and then hide 3 of the pieces.
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): *all spot
on
[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!
[17:04] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): writes to
Ikea...suggesting the name of a new furniture designer..
[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "I
tortured her according to the instructions but there are three implements
left.....now what..."
[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok ok
let's get back on track or this will be the IKEA BDSM discussion
[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
Shayne great start!
[17:05] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Consid that a
number of people were likely to encounter As we go through our second life
we'll have BDSM sounding things in their profiles but turn out to be very
ordinary vanilla people who were just trying to attract attention
[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yep!
[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Or are
interested and know *nothing* about the lifestyle.
[17:05] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): nos
[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but they
watch a certain movie *coughs 50shadesofidiocy* and want to jump in
[17:06] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): bdsm ala "I
watched 50 Shades, and now I tore a hole in my ceiling trying to install a
swing"
[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Damn it!
*…Hands Johan a Coke for the jinx* :P
[17:06] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): GMTA :)
[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
Thanks! all good points!
[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee we
come to you please!
[17:06] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): For me not it IS
necessary I apply the same things I do in my first life as I do here. I am
creating real life feelings and such so why should my rules be different? Real
harm also comes from not having them, look at all the Gorean escapees if you
will who come to Xaara. I have experimented a little bit more here than maybe
in real but that is also due to lack of access in rl. Who decides? all participating parties in their negotiations
[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some
people...I doubt anyone here...but some people think "negotiation" is
not necessary. Why negotiate, just have
fun!
[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): They also
think a 'Limit' is arbitrary and the "x" at the top is one's
safeword.
[17:08] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I disagree, you do not go
to a strange place without a map of some kind
[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
oooo...kinky GPS!
[17:09] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol
[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree
Cee!
[17:09] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): They I submit they are
losing out on the varied nuances of play #
[17:09] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): I looked up Hand and
Foot once... and went to a Very Kinky place accidently!
[17:09] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): rofl
[17:10] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *tries to reprogram
Sydney's Siri for her car* "Turn right ahead.. Good girl, you know Papa likes it when you
follow directions."
[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): laughs
[17:10] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): #
[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): that was
a different "hand and foot" Jenine :P
[17:10] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): giggles badly
[17:10] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *tuns around
and smiles back at Sire*
[17:10] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): just slightly
Mistress......
[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): maybe had
"tied" at the front...
[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫
rimshot ♫
[17:11] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): The Hand and Foot
when you KNOW you are going to be beaten by the Robots, but you like it that
way
[17:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Cee, wise
words, thank you!!
[17:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Jenine
you are up!
[17:11] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): In a sense Risk
Awareness is very real in SL since a lot of us are dealing with some form of
Emotional damage or other issues that can hit triggers.
I have to be careful in that I still deal with triggers if
someone comes on to strong or pushy in a way that hits my *wait... this is
wrong* and I have to sort it a moment to decide if its that persons way of just
being themselves or if I'm totally reading it wrong.
Its hard as it changes from day to day with me right
now. Yes we do have the X in the corner,
but if its used Everytime something is said or done in here, how can we/I grow?
[17:12] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): You're
never wrong following your heart and your "spider sense"
[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and
especially...if something seems "off" and the other won't even
discuss it...time to "run, not walk, to the nearest exit."
[17:13] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): *nods
[17:13] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): Exactly and its led to
a lot of learning and growth for me
[17:13] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): *hugs Jenine
[17:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sadly
sometimes we've had to experience something to really "get" it's
wrong....I have done that a few times, not followed my "sense" and
thought I could deal....led to hurt.
[17:14] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): I'm not the fragile
girl I was when I first came here anymore, but I've Learned.... #
[17:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I love
that Jenine!
[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I can see
the growth in you and it's great!
[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♥
[17:15] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): i love it too Mistress,
its amazing the difference!
[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :)
[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
for that Jenine!
[17:15] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan we
come to you please!
[17:15] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Sneak Attack! Wall of
Text! I think you hit all the nails
right on the head in your preamble Vanni.
While we don't have the same level of risk physically as we
would RL in a (for example) Suspension/Hook/Needle Play scene - we DO still
have emotional and psychological risks and harm that can be associated with
SL/Online Play.
So we SHOULD still be somewhat Risk Aware in regards to our
own triggers and/or limits and communicate honestly and openly with our scene
partners during the scene in case those do pop up on so, so we can avoid using
the Big Red X if at all possible, and hopefully the caring Dominant will
mitigate and go into care mode immediately if necessary.
As for exploring - there IS a difference between the fantasy
and the reality. At a Beltain campout I
once decided "Sure, I'll let XXX Flog me.. I've always held the handle
side, let me experience the receiving end..
I learned within 10 strokes that a 'high pain tolerance' is not the same
as 'deriving pleasure from pain' . So
caveat emptor #
[17:16] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): yes!
[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think
the good thing about SL is it allows us to explore things we might not (or
simply can't) experience in First Life
[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but
absolutely risks and limits matter!
[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's
both vanilla and BDSM
[17:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): one night
I was at a club (won't mention what club) and this guy sort of hit on me and
wanted me to go home with him...and I was feeling needy so minus any further
chat I went....
[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): First he
says "call me Daddy" and before I could even get out "the only
person I called Daddy was my actual Father" he also says "No birth
control...Daddy intends to breed his little girl."
[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I was
right out at that point. He was not
going to include me in his incest fantasy.
[17:20] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): facepalms.
[17:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Had we
discussed it I never would have gone with him...so I was NOT risk aware enough!
[17:21] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): puts away my not so innocent dark thoughts at
that...
[17:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): What
people do within the TOS is their biz but that shows we need to be a *bit*
careful about simply assuming the best of people...
[17:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And I
think even more so with BDSM.
[17:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan
great comment! Thanks so much!
[17:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to
Hestia please!
[17:22] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Risk
awareness.....yes, and easily, the emotionalntal aspects come to mind because
that person at the keyboard is human, and words can be impactful. SO we should
learn to use our words carefully and wisely.
Having said that.....you cannot always determine that
emotionalntal status of the other person.
For me that is the main risk awareness. An astute person can
swiftly pick out individuals whom are ...for lack of a better
term....."unstable". I tend to
avoid those kinds of people because they can go from that victim mentality to
viciously vindictive in a nanosecond.
Sadly there are many individuals in SL, with emotionalntal
problems. I have said it many times...SL is not the place to fix what is wrong
with you. SL can be brutal and mean spirited....when it comes to the emotional
aspects of our being.
Do in SL?, that is a wide area. Walking? flying? going into
space? becoming a vampire? or are we talking SAY things you would never say in
RL? If it is the latter...i find that SL allows me the time to choose my words
more carefully, re read, and possibly change the wording if it comes across as
too harsh. I tend to be blunt and a realist. #
[17:23] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *claps*
[17:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well
said!!
[17:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think
the perceived lack of consequence SL (and social media as well) have allow
people to say things and suggest things they would *never* do in face to face
communication.
[17:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "I
want to make my daughter pregnant, you're her, bend over." Who would say such crap in First Life?
[17:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Here,
"the b*ch left, find another."
[17:25] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I've
written blogs on this very topic :P
[17:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But
Hestia I really liked how you separated "saying" and
"doing" in SL as they really are different things.
[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That was
really a spot on comment! Lots of wisdom
here so far! Thanks so much lovely
Hestia!
[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We move
to Lyrah please!
[17:27] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I'd like to respond to
Jenine's comment about having an "X" to shut down sl. She said that if you use it every time, how
can you grow?.
I feel that if negotiated properly with a vetted play
partner who has integrity, and I am also a vetted play partner with integrity,
then the necessity to have to escape a scene abruptly can be very
preventable.
I am so glad to hear that Jenine indeed HAS grown in her
journey.
I think all of us do. Unfortunately for those who don't have or who don't feel the need to educate themselves on how to use the tools of our lifestyle culture to prevent problems from occurring, they do fall deeply into the pit of risks actually coming to fruition.
Being "Risk Aware" is actually something I LOVE
about this lifestyle. I didn't have a
healthy protocol for how to avoid those risks in my vanilla days. I knew what the risks were, but I didn't have
the confidence nor words to say in order to vet someone, or negotiate intimacy
needs, or to get out of a situation I'd regretted as it occurred.
I love that in our community consent and negotiation are as
important and assumed as they are, as well as aftercare. There are so many tools we have that are
implied in BDSM that aren't in vanilla.
I actually find BDSM safer for play.
Thank you.#
[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hear
hear! *claps*
[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's
all well said and shows the necessity of vetting and negotiating things.
[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very well
said Lyrah, thanks for that excellent contribution!
[17:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Y'all are
spot on today I love it. We need more post-Halloween discussions :P
[17:30] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): Thank you.
[17:30] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): that is very true
Lyrah, SL for me started as the Only outlet for social connection after being
isolated for a long time with my job I had..
[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): nods at
Jenine
[17:31] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): smiles
[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a
friend who is homebound due to medical issues and SL is her entire social world
[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We move
to Alsedel please!
[17:31] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): Not being
aware of the risk or not being situationally aware is like driving 70 mph, in a
convertible with no seat belt through Rome. It complainant on you to be
aware. The consequences are emotional
here. This is not RL the keyboard hides
and allows so much. SL is filled with predators and mentally deranged people
along with amazing ones. So if it looks like
a duck walks like a duck .. Chances are its a duck not prince or
princess charming. #
[17:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
Right! It seems the SL and X/Twitter
share a lot of the same people lol...some great ones and, to be charitable,
some "really not so great ones that make one want to wind sprint
away"
[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And it
really is on us to protect ourselves.
People can easily not be what they seem.
Fronts and facades are easy to put up.
[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Not that
we have to be paranoid! Just careful!
[17:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): or Risk Aware
[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed!
[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): too bad
there isn't a "risk quotient" above our heads lol
[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "Oh
lord she's a 9, he's an 8"...
[17:35] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): You say "Risk
Quotient" some say "Oooh Bad Boy must touch the flames" meter.
[17:35] Alsedel Llewellyn (Alsedel Llewellyn): You mean like
the spanking titlers some wear
[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh
similar Alsedel and that's such a good point Johan!
[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but
that's really a different topic...why are some good people attracted to
obviously not so good people....
[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): which may
well be a future topic here!
[17:36] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): smiles, i´ll look
forward to it
[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
Alsedel!
[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We go
back to Cee please!
[17:37] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): Actually, I find the BDSM
here in Sl, especially in Xaara to be a model for our RL dealings. Many people
I meet in real have fantasies of being kinky. I have been in the lifestyle 35
years and was raised right if you will but if I were coming into the scene now
my ethics and rules in SL would serve me very well in the real world
[17:37] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *claps*
[17:37] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): #
[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Xaara is
very much like my RL BDSM place....both are education forward, and very much
based on protecting people
[17:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Some in
the Los Angeles scene don't like coming to our club as we're known to have vigilant
DMs (Dungeon Monitors, not Masters, oh game geeks like me!) :P that stop scenes
if they are out of our bounds
[17:38] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): I live in a very small
community in rural Colo and so have no real community
[17:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think
while Xaara isn't that strict we definitely push education and safety while
many other places don't or pay it some lip service.
[17:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That was
well said Cee! Thanks :)
[17:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): do we
have any other comments or questions on this topic?
[17:40] Jenine Aurelia (Illana Kuu): other than Risk
Assessment is something learned and a lot to be gained from!
[17:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Amen!
[17:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Not enough to put a C
in, but I love that we are all generally on the same page if not the exact same
note of sheet music regarding the topic :)
[17:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Go ahead
Shayne!
[17:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and yes I
agree Johan, but we are the cream of the crop, the rice on top, uh...leaves out
dirty next line
[17:42] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *takes psychic damage
from the lyric*
[17:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lol
[17:42] Shayne Aridian (Shayne Aridian): Yes I agree with UH
Jo I think that it is very significant that we have that orientation and I'm
happy to say actually it is surprising how many of the people that I encounter
typically in other places in Second Life really wonder why I put such an
emphasis on consent and on taking care of them when they seem to just want to
get beat up it's that many of them will be
[17:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have to
save vs Wall of Text regularly!
[17:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed
[17:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): they just
see this as a "game" where their little avatar can be shot and killed
and just "respawns" to start again
[17:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): they can
have their view, I stay away from that
[17:44] Cee (PurringFox McMillan): me too
[17:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said
and I agree with your thinking Shayne!
[17:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sarah
please!
[17:44] Sarah (SarahBabon Resident): i'm glad to be here
engaging in awareness on particular topics within the D/s community.
[17:44] Sarah (SarahBabon Resident): #
[17:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We think
it very important Sarah!
[17:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We can
have fun and be safe.
[17:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks!
[17:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Any other
final comments?
[17:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok then,
excellent "kicking the can" around!
Thank you all and see you here in two weeks. Johan's "Easy like a Sunday
Morning" is next Sunday at eight!
