[08:12] Vanni Cannoli (vanessa.cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!
[08:12] Vanni Cannoli (vanessa.cannoli): Before I open the discussion, let me post the usual header: Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q. If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"
[08:12] Vanni Cannoli (vanessa.cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.
[08:13] Vanni Cannoli (vanessa.cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open. Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[08:13] Vanni Cannoli (vanessa.cannoli): While we are a chatty group, lots of extra chat makes it "noisy," so if we can please keep that to a minimum, it would be very appreciated, thank Y/you!
[08:13] Vanni Cannoli (vanessa.cannoli): The blog for this munch is: https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/ It holds the archive for our munches here starting Jan 3, 2021.
[16:15] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Last week we talked about Bondage, so anyone who may have missed that discussion or wants to review it (with all the nonsense from the troll we had grace us with his flatulence last week removed), it is on the above website.
[16:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We are going through the BDSM acronym and I expect this will take us into April at least
[16:16] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Depending on how much people want to talk about various topics
[16:17] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We are going over B/D, last week was Bondage, this week.
[16:18] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Discipline is the act of some kind of punishment or correction of a person.
[16:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We have talked about this a few times, but in the interest of clarity and for newer folks, we have two ways to look at this.
[16:19] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): First is actual punishment. Punishment is a tool in a D/s relationship for the breaking of a rule that has been negotiated between the Dominant and the submissive. Any rule within the agreed upon limits of the relationship needs to be obeyed, so a punishment is to stop a behavior that is not desired.
[16:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In the behavioral sciences, we talk about reinforcement and punishment. We want to reinforce desired behaviors and punish bad behaviors to keep them from happening.
[16:21] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): There are different ways to do both that are beyond the scope of this disucssion really.
[16:22] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now, if we really need to punish any person....wayward child, naughty sub...then the punishment needs to have three characteristics:
[16:22] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): First it must be swift, done as close as possible in time to the infraction.
[16:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Second it must be certain, it WILL happen, or the punisher (not the comic book character) will look weak in the eyes of the person and so not an authority figure.
[16:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And third, it must be Rational, meaning the level of punishment is tied to the infraction.
[16:23] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Insane punishments for light infractions just breed contempt.
[16:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And light punishments for serious infractions teach nothing.
[16:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "You killed AGAIN Miss Cannoli? That's another $100 fine for you!"
[16:24] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'd be droppin' Franklins like candy
[16:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So that's actual Punishment
[16:25] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good Doms will reinforce positive things in their charges, and use punishment sparingly but WILL do it if/when necessary.
[16:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The other kind of Discipline is what we lovingly call here "funishment'
[16:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Or acts between the Dom and sub that are really more of a negotiated role play to get a scene going.
[16:26] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But are not really infractions of rules.
[16:27] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So, just as example....*looks around*...Lyra might "stick her tongue out" at Miss Cherry, and then Miss Cherry spanks her a bit.
[16:27] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If they know between them that such is negotiated and only for getting a bit of a scene going, that's not really "rule breaking"
[16:27] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): Omg, she will never do that ... will she ??? *frowns*
[16:27] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's funishment
[16:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I hope I have not given her idea Miss Cherry, but you might have to punish her!
[16:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Spank her! And then....spank me!
[16:28] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lots of Dom and subs have little games they play with each other that are negotiated, or even parts of larger role plays.
[16:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): For those of Y/you that know Miss Tann and her sub Aoisle, there is lots of banter between them that might look like Aoisle is misbehaving, but it is negotiated fun between them that allows them the interplay they both enjoy. Aoisle would not actually disobey her owner. I know her well enough.
[16:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So that's all good.
[16:30] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So finally getting to the questions for the day
[16:31] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 1) Do Y/you enjoy "funishment" and do Y/you use it in your D/s interactions, or not? (some will not, seeing it trite)
[16:31] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and 2) If there is real discipline that needs to be administered, how is it handled?
[16:31] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We start with Master Abraham, please
[16:31] Abraham Jacobson (abrahamjacobs2 Resident): Discipline is not just beating. For my girls who are used to whip in RL , a beating is fun, and a whip a play toy. I have to things like disapproval, isolation in a cage, or just not talking to them for a day. But , that needs to be followed up with love and caring when the point is made . Or make up sex. But , i have seen too many let their women control them with no correction. Or treat other masters poorly with no consequences. It usually ends with if you have any problems with what i just said , go to my master who then does a thats ok baby. A sub represents who he is and should shine if he is there or not and be disciplined if she does not act well.
[16:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nods
[16:32] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What You described Master is really a form of "Topping from the Bottom"
[16:33] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And while we can't judge what others do, I think most of us here find that kind of thing unacceptable.
[16:33] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I think I speak for my fellow subs here when I say all most if not all of us need to hear is something like "You did wrong, I'm disappointed you couldn't follow through or do what you were told."
[16:34] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): After you recover from your self-induced cry-coma, you're begging forgiveness minus anything else.
[16:35] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Very well said, thank You Master!
[16:35] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Aspen has a question!
[16:36] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): Thank you Vanni, What about us subs that are not owned? If we do something wrong and it should be discipline by who?
[16:36] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): By me, of course
[16:37] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well on an interpersonal D/s level Aspen, you have no real rules so you're not doing anything "wrong" in that regard.
[16:37] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): On a Xaara level, if you broke some rule of the sim, you would have to answer to the Dominants here, up to Master Laz.
[16:37] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also I believe you are a Community Slave? They have to answer to Master Roman and above.
[16:38] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): By not addressing a dominate right and If I had a Master then I should have been discipline.
[16:39] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well you do need to follow sim rules for subs, but if some person thought you were supposed to use a title beyond what is required, that person really need to examine the website.
[16:39] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Opinion" =/= "Rules"
[16:40] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some guy a few years ago IMed me that I was supposed to call him "High Lordship"....no joke. It was in his profile
[16:40] Arella McGregor (Arella4 Resident): chokes
[16:40] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm like "when did you join the Peerage?"
[16:41] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): He blocked me quickly...poor me. I lost a *great* chance....*sobs*
[16:41] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Aspen!
[16:42] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to the Blonde Devil in the cool Red Dress!
[16:42] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Okay, I went Rouge and thought ahead today....
[16:42] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): I'm not sure if or how this fits the spectrum of discipline, maybe as reinforcing desired behavior, pre-emptive discipline(?), maybe you can tell me, but my Mistress has given me rules that constrain my behavior and mold my mind and attitude. Things that earn disapproval if I don't obey. Things like only nudity at home, a greeting ritual, and the requirement that every time I log on, I must say, in public chat, whether I'm alone or not, "Dolls are toys that please others. I am a doll." That last one is new for past few weeks and I can't describe the wonderful feelings I get from doing that. What I can say is that Mistress is very wise to remind me of my place and the pleasure I find in adhering to her expectations. I want more!
[16:42] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): If all goes to plan, at the end of this month, I'll be spending 9 days as a very restricted pony/mare at a ranch I'm joining, subject to all sorts of discipline, I expect. (I may not be at Klatch during that time.) I'm a little wary of being so controlled but at the same time I'm over-the-moon excited about it, looking forward to it, as I'm sure many subs can understand. I hope that I can meet that challenge of obeying the ranch rules and being pleasing.
[16:44] Arella McGregor (Arella4 Resident): Yay Brianne! (Gets out Carrie's Story and retitles it for Brianne)
[16:44] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In behavioral science we differentiate between Reinforcement and Punishment. What Miss Katie is doing is reinforcing what she wants you to do with praise (so it's positive)
[16:45] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And sending you off to be ponified for a week
[16:45] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): I do respond to that pretty well.
[16:45] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As you said you are looking forward to that, it's also a form of reinforcement
[16:46] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): is super happy for brianne, and wishes her all the best. loving the idea of being locked down like that for x period of time
[16:46] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We don't talk about "reward" when discussing behavior modification, btw. It's either to reinforce desired behavior or discard unwanted behavior.
[16:46] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods
[16:46] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So the bondage is being used to modify your behaviors. You go, sister!
[16:46] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): ^ ^
[16:47] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you Brianne!
[16:47] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): Thank you!
[16:47] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move on to Peaches please!
[16:47] Peaches Svenska (Peaches Gapchenko): Thank you Vannie.
Please dont worry about what I'm about to say, everything is good now but...
I was an abused child, both physically and sexually so, surprise, surprise, I can't endure being whipped,
This is NOT a problem for my Master because,,,well,,,I'm an ANGEL! HAHAHA. But seriously, I can't think of anything, in the last 13+ years, I cant think of any punishable offenses that I have done.
There have been a few occasions where Master has had to step in and say, "ok ladies, thats enough", when Candy and I have had a few sisterly words. But other than that...
I would rather be whipped bloody by my God Emperor than to even disappoint him.. If I were to embarrass him or dishonor him in some way,, I think I would simply die.#
[16:48] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes indeed!
[16:48] Brianne (kittenbunnydoll Resident): nods knowingly and appreciatively of Peaches
[16:49] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Subs and slaves are extensions of their owners as Master Abraham said, our behaviors should always be with them and their prestige in mind.
[16:49] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): takes on a thoughtful expression as he tries to recall Peaches actually doing something 'puinishable'. "Calling me God Emperor" makes it all good
[16:49] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it's not unlike how snotty brat kids in public make the parents look "non-parental"
[16:50] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Can't they control their kids, what kind of idiots are they?"
[16:50] яøυɢє ѕνєиѕкα (RougeLaroux Resident): knows has danced that line a few times in the early days, and soon learned her lesson
[16:52] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Peaches, thank you for that, your contributions are always timely and pleasing to your God-Emperor. *grins*
[16:52] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We move on to Miss Cherry, please!
[16:52] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): Thank you Vanni
[16:52] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): For those who know me, i am not into hard punishment. Like Vanni has put it, a word of disapproval can weigh harder than a real 'physical punishment' Telling your subbe that you disapprove should be enough. After all it's a set of rules that shouldhave been agreed on before we start our "play". If your sub doesn't takes that serious, you can wonder if you are not wasting your time. Same goes for the Domme / Master by the way.
"Funishment' on the other hand is a very core item of my interaction. Things should be FUN for both Domme and Subbe. After all we all work hard enough in RL, and we are here to show our love and respect to each other. That should not be hard work, but an act of commitment. I disagree with people that take themselves too serious. You only have to read the news to see how that ends up....
[16:53] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said, Miss!
[16:53] Cherry Lysette (Cherry Cloud): Thank you vanni :-)
[16:55] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We always need to remember that everyone in this lifestyle approaches it differently...some very relaxed, some very seriously, and anything in between. What's important is what works for *U/us*
[16:56] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Rules should be taken seriously, but they are the rules that the Dom and sub create between them, not rules that apply to anyone else. So I find it amusing when others think *I* should be living by their rules.
[16:56] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But it occasionally happens lol.
[16:57] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You know, like how I'm supposed to cook and clean and iron shirt and give a blow job to Sir C.....well him. Yep, that's happening.
[16:58] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Miss Cherry thank You! Well said and a great first contribution to our Sunday chats!
[16:58] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Does anyone else have a comment or question or our topic? *noting the empty chairs and figuring bowls of Cheetos are being filled as we speak*
[17:01] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): I need the discipline and structure. But I love the Funishment because that is the icing on the cake..
[17:02] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Funishment is fun as long as it's clear what the parameters of the "misbehavior" are.
[17:02] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Meaning, the limits needs to be clear
[17:03] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some s-types, especially Brats, like pushing those limits.
[17:03] Aspen Diamond (Aspenbell03 Resident): I do need the correction of my behavior at time when I stick my foot in my mouth.
[17:03] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But as long as it's clear what the "infraction" is and that's it's just a way to get something going that is acceptable between both, it's fine.
[17:04] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you Aspen!
[17:04] Vanni Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone else?
[17:05] Ballard (Ballard Svenska): Vanni, thank you for leading a fine and interesting discussion. Go Chiefs
No comments:
Post a Comment