[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!
[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions
are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if
you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually
directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract
either your C or your Q. If a person has
a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @
[name]"
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in
the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a
person's comment to the top. The
handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks
a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply,
replies to the question will be open.
Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep
further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy! Thank you! ♥
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for
this Klatch can be found here:
https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/
It houses current and many older discussions.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've been keeping
up the blog archive since I started in March so everything since is there
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of
the way, we'll begin.
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Last week our
topic was "Third Party Consent" -- what are the ethical requirements
about people our scenes in public?
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We had a rousing
discussion on that and it is the current discussion archived on the blog.
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You can read that
later if you missed it or want a refresher.
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today, as a corollary
to that, I want to discuss the need for being "Risk Aware" at all in
SL.
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So, I have a
little exposition as usual to start
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): then we'll go to
the queue...please put in a C or a Q as I spout here for a few mins as ideas
come up
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): There are two
schools of thought here
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The first is that
SL is a virtual world...maybe even a game....and this avatar you see isn't
"real" in the sense I can be hurt here
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): When I got to
Xaara today I TPed via the map from my home
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and fell maybe
20m
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): onto the ground
by the Cafe
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Now a 20m fall
would cause damage yeah?
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But here I iz,
fresh as a daisy, and my lipstick didn't even smear.
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So by extension,
as we can't be hurt...what exactly is it we are worrying about with this
"risk aware" stuff?
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Why do you need a
"safeword" at all...doesn't the "X" at the top of the
screen in the red box suffice?
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (I've had people
tell me that btw)
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So why worry
about all this stuff...jump in, have fun, and TP away if it doesn't suit your
fancy.
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The other school
that SL is an extension of First Life.
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And we need to
have care about other people here rather than just all do our things,
consequences be damned.
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also, people can
certainly be hurt here...emotional and psychological harm are real.
[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And if a person
is mirroring a scene, or doing a scene on video with their other, even possible
physical harm is there if they are hitting or doing something to themselves
while the SL scene is going on
[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In this school of
thought, ethics are necessary.
[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So, the questions
for today for this august assembly are:
[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 1) do we really
need to be "risk aware" in a virtual world?
[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and
[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 2) If so, to what
level? The same as in First Life if we
were doing a scene, or is some lesser form based on the people and the scene in
question ok? Would you do something here
in SL you would never do in First Life?
[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's my
exposition
[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Kat when you are
ready please!
[15:54] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): Maybe especially if I do
things here in SL that I would or could no longer do in RL, I stress being
aware of my partner's limits, reactions, feelings etc... communication and
knowledgeable consent are so important in SL as much as RL
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed!
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've been doing
this Klatch since 2019 I think and that's always been the key word --
communication.
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The central issue
I am asking is...*why* do we need to do this in a world where we stay young and
gorgeous and fall 5000m meters without a parachute and make it in time for tea?
[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wahat are the
ethics of it?
[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Draya when you
are ready please
[15:57] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): i Believe its
just as important to be aware of risk in SL as it is in RL, yes Sl has no real
risk of physical harm like RL, but thats also the easier kind of harm to
recover from, SL on the other hand has the mental aspect, we are all connected
though the screens by our minds, and that can and will be come hurt throughout
your time here in SL, its happened to us all, i can say that with clear
certainty, and that is not as easy to recover from, and like the physical can
leave lasting scars, il use the most common one. as an example, heart break,
some may see SL as a game, (i do not to be clear) but we are real people behind
out avatars, with real feelings and they go deep at times, leaving you
legitiemtly vunerable to others, and then that is abused it can hurt, alot, for
a long time,
[15:57] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): myself included are very connected with this
world, and often the box is not the first thought, we are immersed here live
here, feel here, also safewords are not for running away. they are stopping
what is happening and in the right situation begin renegotiation about why it
had to stop. you cant do that if you hit the red box.
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Great points
Draya!
[15:59] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): ♥
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): For me the X is
the final "there is no hope here"...if a Top were doing something off
the charts bad and ignored safewords and "Stop the F* now!" then I go
that route
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and I agree...I
scene with serious people in both worlds
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): if what we are a
doing is a "game" to someone...go find someone else to play Kinky
KandyLand with
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm not your girl
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said, thanks
Draya!
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go back to Kat
please!
[16:01] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): ..Well said, Dray ...because psyches and emotions can very
much be harmed in SL... *emotional* well being, pleasure & safety are
absolutely impacted for positive & negative - or why would we play here?
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100% agreed Kat
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok! Good point and thank you!
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Shae please!
[16:05] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow):
Honestly, even vanilla peeps should be "risk aware", but of course
most don't think about it in the way we do. The person driving the avatar we
interact with is a real person, with real feelings. And many of us do identify
and connect with that person on the other side. We can't be careless with each
other's hearts and feelings.
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It is very
possible to do emotional harm to others here
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm sure many if
not most of us have felt some degree of it at some point
[16:08] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): nods.
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so I agree that
both vanilla and D/s lifestyle people need to take care for themselves and
others.
[16:08] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): has lost count
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): well said thank
you!
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Magnus you are up
please
[16:09] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): I think that our
fellow kinksters need to be aware that SSC, RACK, PRICK (or your favorite
acronym of choice) are more than just physical guidelines. In an RL setting,
these also apply to our mental well-being, so it only makes sense that it still
applies in an SL setting. In my personal opinion, those who claim that it's
just a game are telling you exactly what to expect from them. They're just
playing a game and they don't take the BDSM world seriously. If your goals are
in alignment with theirs, then have a good time. On the other hand, some of us
take this more seriously, we're more emotionally invested in our interactions
and relationships here in SL. For those folks, like myself, being risk-aware is
critical to our own mental health and warrant sifting through the players to
find those who have common goals. And, of course, we do that through
communication.
[16:09] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Here's a recent example: I knew a girl in a
Maledom sim who had disliked public play. All well and good, right? Except that
some of the "doms" hanging around thought nothing of it and would
play with her publicly. She reached a point where she would be crying in RL
because of the humiliation in SL. That's resolved now, and she's been empowered
to say 'no' to things that she doesn't want to do, but it shows how the
"players" can cause harm without communication.#
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ugh ...that
treatment of her was appalling
[16:11] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Absolutely it was.
And I have a white-knight syndrome problem, so I put myself in the middle of
it, even when she asked me not to.
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I agree there
are a good number of players on both sides of the D/s slash that don't get how
there is a real, flesh and blood person at the end of the fiber optic cable
[16:11] Payton (Kinksterguy Resident): Agreed
[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I am glad an
ethical person stepped in Magnus! It
says much about your character -- all good! ♥
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And as for this
being a game...I'd have to ask a person "so what are the winning
conditions?"
[16:13] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): Right!
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm not an NPC
person handing out BDSM missions on demand.
[16:13] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): win conditions
for most is to make a tissue sticky
[16:13] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): laughs at first... then ponders the idea of an
NPC BDSM quest giver.
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): right, Draya
[16:13] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): snickers
[16:14] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): marks "Vanni-side-quest" off her
to-do list.
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I might give you
the same mission over and over Imy *giggles*
[16:14] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): OH, darn.
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ha!
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Magnus, excellent
comment and actions...thank you again.
[16:15] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Thank you.
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hey Poe
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we move to Autumn
please!
[16:15] Poe OwO (Poe OwO): Hello, Vanni~
[16:15] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes, we for sure need to be risk aware in a virtual
world. You need to know the person you
are with, why they are here. I came to
SL to experience things I couldn't in RL because my then partner wasn't into
what I was. I wanted to learn, and have
some form of experience that I couldn't get in RL. Now, I have a partner into the things I am,
but between long distance and some physical limitations, SL gives us a chance
to do things we might not be able to do in person. So communication is key to understand why the
other is here. I am able to get physical
responses in RL from things that happen to my avi, so if something is done to
my avi that may trigger me in RL, it's important for my partner to know that
when it happens. Just clicking an X
doesn't allow for either party to learn more about each other and grow. Plus, for me, sometimes the mental aspect of
things can be more damaging than anything physical. In my opinion, most physical things heal a
lot faster than mental wounds. Also, in
general, a platform like SL makes bullies worse in my opinion, because they
feel like because it is "just an avi" that they aren't doing
harm. So I agree with what Shae said, it
should be a universal thing.
[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I see the
"this is a game and you can't be hurt" having a similar mindset to
trolls on social media, the type that just flit from profile to profile saying
hurtful things just to have "fun"
[16:17] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes
[16:18] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): waves to Mx Poe :)
[16:18] Poe OwO (Poe OwO): waves to Pilar~
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): while sociopathy
is fairly rare, it seems the online world, in its myriad forms, gives many of
them a place to congregate
[16:18] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Narcissists as well
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed
[16:19] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): nods grimly
[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said thanks
Autumn!
[16:19] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): The whole "one
bad apple" idea unfortunately applies to the internet, as well. One
sociopath can make color the entire experience.
[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): truth
[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We will move to
Ella now please
[16:22] ella (ellabi Resident): Risk awareness is in some
way more important in second life than in first life. In RL it is easier to
spot an abuser and easier to avoid any such contact. At SL all interactions are
registrered by brain, both yummy feelings and potential harm. I can be pushed
to do things I would not LIKE in RL but never ever to do anyting unthinkable.
Trust, respect and connection is totally necessary and that process involves
risk awarenes. My soul, brain, heart and emotions are the same in both worlds.
First characters to avoid: "you are just an avatar, you can do anything
here". done but can clarify if you fancy
[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): An issue is we
don't have tone of voice or expression here that help us to discern more about
a person (unless one uses voice or video but that's a different area)
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I agree that
reading words only *can* lead to being easier lulled into less of a suspicious
mindset for many
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but sooner or
later, often sooner in my experience, that person with ill intent does make
some comment or does some thing that gets my attention
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In 20 years of SL
(wow) *most* of my interactions have been positive, but there have been a few
that set off my spider sense
[16:26] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): They do out
themselves. Just gotta know what to look for.
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): right
[16:26] Poe OwO (Poe OwO): just remember looks can be
deceiving lol
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): indeed!
[16:27] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): (Said as Mx
Poe looks innoce-... *chokes on the word*)
[16:27] Poe OwO (Poe OwO): looks between herself and Jason, "I'm
definitrly the nice one, right?"
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I look cute
but...watch out for the Sicilian underneath.... :P
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks ella!
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's move on to
Imy to see if she finished her BDSM mission...I mean...her comment...
[16:27] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): I am
notoriously a proponent of PRICK over RACK, because I believe in scening that
it's not solely a Dominant's responsibility to educate me on the risk involved,
and that I'm a fully-capable, intelligent adult and can take responsibility for
my own education on scenes/kinks/activities that I'm inexperienced with. THAT SAID... I think where Risk-Aware has its
perfect place is in describing relationships.
I'm often told that I get hurt as deeply as I do in relationships
because I expect people to be as genuine with me as I am with Them... and not
E/everyone is like that. So to try and
apply the "Personally Responsible" aspect of PRICK to those
situations... how much am I ~truly 'personally responsible' for if They were
never genuine with me in the first place?
I can't be held responsible for someone else's deception and malice...
but I should still be aware that it can happen.
I know the risks of getting involved with other humans on as deep a
level as D/s and M/s can be, so Risk-Aware is truly the best way to describe
that principle, to me anyway. There's another thought brewing in my brain, too,
but I need more caffeine first, so I'll shut up for now. xD #
[16:30] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Excellent point,
Imy.
[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A person can only
be held liable for something if they understood the nature of the
contract. If a person was false with me
then I can't be held responsible for what I couldn't know. That said, we have to be responsible first
and foremost for ourselves.
[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If I think a
person has some issue brewing, well..I'll talk with them in a public setting,
but not go anywhere private with them.
[16:31] Payton (Kinksterguy Resident): Well said Imy
[16:31] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): dips her head
[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Imy is smart,
it's good to have her back here!
[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♥♥
[16:31] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (Shae Shadow): smiles
[16:31] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): You flatter
me
[16:32] Poe OwO (Poe OwO): you're hot too.
[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wait til I give
you your next mission. It involves
finding something "red"....or getting something made red...uh...we'll
talk later, love.
[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Seriously, well
said and thank you for that comment!
[16:33] spice 'imy' mcginty (Spice Enthusiast): takes notes
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): MansooR we come
to you please!
[16:35] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): So.. risk
awareness is very vdry important.......to the point that if the standards are
not followed.. one still clarify.....which i didnt.....short of the story is
that i met someone a year ago..and all was going well.....till i took out the
flogger....and she ran......and.. i was like.... she had no limits in her
profile..nor given me an nc.....
[16:35] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): nods. Communication, communication,
communication.
[16:35] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): i shd have
made sure to ask for the liits
[16:36] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): limits
[16:36] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): and not
assume... yes.. comms are important.....and not take things for ganted
[16:36] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): even if we
are enjoying.. you never know what wil happen net
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes
{16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A quick RL story
applies here
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A Domme in my RL
community went to a conference with her then subby boy, but she takes no toys
on her trips as she doesn't want to have to explain to TSA what they are.
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So she and her
boy went to the conference and when they got to the hotel room that evening he
wanted a scene
[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and he found an
electrical cord in a drawer and said "here, hit me with this"
[16:38] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): cringes.
[16:38] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): winces
[16:39] Payton (Kinksterguy Resident): Damn! Didn't they
know what it can do?
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): When she did he suddenly started crying like
crazy and got into a ball, sobbing
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so...scene over
immediately and she held him for an hour
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it wasn't
physical damage at all
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): she didn't even
hit him hard with it
[16:40] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): That sounds like a
trauma trigger.
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): what happened was
when she did smack his ass, a repressed memory of his dad hitting him with an
electrical cord surfaced
[16:40] Aυţυмη нαuι
(AutumnRaineSkye Resident): nods softly
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): prior abuse
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so she held him
until he could talk
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and then when
they got back she made sure he started therapy
[16:40] Kat Shadow (Kat Shadow): nods solemnly
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and made sure he
was being helped
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but she was
horribly guilty over it
[16:41] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): looks like
trauma in my story.......
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But that wasn't
her fault, she couldn't have known as *he* didn't know ... it was repressed
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but the ethical
thing was stop, hold, get help
[16:42] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): She did all the
right things. Poor boy.
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and she did all
the right things there
[16:42] Payton (Kinksterguy Resident): Exactly, the focus
has to IMMEDIATELY move to taking care of your partner. The scene be damned!
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That is how we
should approach any situation like that.
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said Payton
[16:43] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): i tried
talking.. but she ran off....and never replied toi me saying that she shd at
least have her limits
[16:43] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): am done
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So point is...you
couldn't have known MansooR...in a situation like that, we learn what to do
next time. As you said, communication.
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And she really
should have said what was wrong and you could have moved on to an alternative.
[16:44] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): yes... i
know.. but as a dom..i took it on myself as to why i didnt ask for the obvious
thig
[16:44] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): and it hurt
cause it was fun..and had a good thing going
[16:44] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Consider it a
learning experience.
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right
[16:45] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): i did!
[16:45] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): We can't change the
past, but we should certainly learn from it.
[16:45] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): one more
thing if i may
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you and
sorry for the aside there, but I thought that story relevant to this.
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): sure go ahead
[16:46] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): crap..lost
my thought.....if it comes back.. i ll raise my hand..
[16:46] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): sorry
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): No worries!
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Where are we
again? I'll have a pumpkin spice spanker
with extra leather please...
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): shae back to you
please!
[16:47] shae the pwincess muffinbutt (shae.shadow): I didn't
plan for my comment to dovetail in this way. But in a similar vein to Vanessa's
anecdote just now... Edge play fantasies are easier for many to explore in SL
-- and seem to be very popular. Themes of emotional masochism/sadism, such as
cucking, objectification, free use, CNC, and so on. It bears remembering that
just as in RL when playing this way, what's "fun" one minute can
easily cross the line into "too much: bad now". In RL, you can watch
for cues closely, but in SL, you're somewhat flying blind when you play this
way. So communication and 'checking in' become even more important here.
((done))
[16:47] Jason-Lenore Blackwood (Malaclypse Blackwood): I got
you for the leather Vanni ;)
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): winks at Jason-Lenore 😉
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes yes and yes
shae!
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As both MansooR
and Imy pointed out...we have to be clear on either side of the slash, on what's going on before and during a scene
[16:48] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): oh....
raises hands
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): if I'm a bottom,
and we are moving into a sketchy spot for me, I ethically have to tell the Top
about it, what to look for, and if things go sideways to stop
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You can explore,
just do it ethically
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Shae thanks!
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok Mansoor, we'll
go to you and then Draya will finish off our talk
[16:50] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): so... we
talk a lot about comms... but comms do require courage
[16:50] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): am done...
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I
agree...sometimes it's hard to admit certain things
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): for example, some
bottoms/s-types don't feel they can safeword as it might hurt or upset the Top
or Dom
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Believe me as a
switch that does a LOT of First Life scenes as a Top, I 100% want you to
safeword or say "slow down"
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): the last thing I
ever want to do is hurt someone
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): in a bad way of
course...
[16:52] Poe OwO (Poe OwO): smirks
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so I agree, we
need to be able to communicate what is going on
[16:53] Becky Koolhoven (Becky Koolhoven): I prefer to hurt
them in a delish way
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and if the other
person, D or s, gets pissy about it...that's not a person to interact with
[16:53] MansooR RedChilli (mansoor50 Resident): true
[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said
[16:54] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): many subs dont
understand tht with a good Dom, if you dont safeword and get hurt by it, THEY
HURT YOU! and they will feel bad about it, so by not using it you hurt ytou
both,
[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Correct!
[16:54] Poe OwO (Poe OwO): so true
[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): OK Draya you
finish us off today
[16:54] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): ok sorry again...
here goes :p
[16:54] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Excellent point,
Draya.
[16:54] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): its very easy for
some to hide their true side here in SL, play nice, say all the right things
that experience of doing it to others has shown them what works, they know how
to get what they want and play nice to start, they know getting past the first
walls and making that connection with others opens up many more options to get
what they want even at the detriment to the one they have targeted, as has been
said we dont have things like body language, tone, all we see is what they
present, usually a nice calm polite person that wants what is best for you,
till you get to know them more, and then.. well we all know what happens from
where, so yes, i agree with Ella, risk awareness is more important in SL for
those reasons than it is in RL as its easier in RL "sus" someone out.
in SL you are the one at the disadvantage while they get all the buffs.. saddly
this can lead to many, (myself included) that trust no one for a very long
time, ive built my walls so thick that i can often miss out on something that may
have been good, if this was just a game i would just reload and go again, the
fact im scared to do something in this virtual world proves its more than just
a game.
i also just want to make a comment on the hotel thing, many
think they can not happen in SL, and it can, very easily, especially for those
that have a strong connection to their avatar, if i see something happening to
my Avatar my mind makes a connection to it, without even trying now a days, and
they have pulled up bad things before, its more important to be aware of this
in SL as unlike your Example, i cant be held for hours to recover. if it goes
bad enough to end up in a ball crying, i cant even tell you whats happening..
this does still full under the need to be risk aware of who you with, but also
cements the need for deep conversation and negotiation before doing anything
with someone. at the same time, also be
aware that letting some people know what can trigger you can also be used
against you so make that risk assessment before you do too.
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right! I think
all of that was spot on...and I failed my save so now I'm trapped in the wall
of text until I fail my literacy save :P
[16:56] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): giggles
[16:57] Draya Darkwing (Drayana Firehart): sorry its all
your fault for my wall o texts, you all make such good points that it just
keeps growing till its my turn
[16:57] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): rolls a nat 20 and gives the roll to Miss
Vanni
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): woot
[16:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): One other
thing...here in SL as on social media, the fact there are no immediate
consequences means those few sociopathic jerks get to do their thing and feel
no immediate repercussions.
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If I say
something foul to someone in public in first life, there is an immediate reaction.
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Here....I say
something foul and what happens, someone gets mad, which was my goal, and then
I tp away to the next victim
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): same on social
media
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so my point
is...online gives those few sociopaths a playground and we need to watch out
for them
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Don't be
paranoid, but do be careful
[17:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Everything you
said was spot on Draya, thanks
[17:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And thank you
everyone, again...y'all shine
[17:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and you are why
Xaara is such a solid community of ethical people
[17:00] Magnus Diavolo (Magnus Diavolo): Thank you, Vanessa,
and everyone, for a wonderful discussion.
[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We'll be back in
two weeks during the Festival
[17:01] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): whispers "such a good discussion...Thank
you E/everyone"
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