[15:38] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok it's time, let's get started
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have
some exposition to start us off
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so as I
ramble on a bit drop a C or a Q in the queue and then we'll get to comments and
questions
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Since we
started with this set of discussions in March, we have gone through the entire
BDSM paradigm step by step. We finished
that two weeks ago.
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Now we
move to more general topics
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we
discuss the idea of "Third Party Consent"
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): This idea
suggests that when we do a scene that is 100% consensual between the parties
*directly* involved, the consent of people around also needs to be taken in to
consideration.
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): For
example, when we were talking about the "Brat" style submissive...
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Even if
the Dominant who owns and controls said "Brat" is 100% fine with the
bratty behavior...does the Brat get to do their thing in public where others
will see it.
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): As they
may not get it and become annoyed
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think
we all agree if I started flogging a bottom at the local Costco, that would be
out of bounds.
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Although
it would be my kind of "sample booth" really...
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫
rimshot ♫
[15:44] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): giggles
[15:44] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): looks for the tenderized rump roast
[15:44] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "Attention
Costco Shoppers, we have a special demonstration on Paddles today taking place
in our Meat Department"
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): What
about here at Xaara though?
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We are
clearly an adult-rated, BDSM sim.
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): How much
expectation is there, if any, that we should curtail our BDSM activities in
public here?
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Do we
need to ask visitors if they mind seeing a sub leashed, or people dressed in
provocative outfits? Or calling their
Dominant "Master" or "Mistress?" Is consent implied when they arrive here?
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So,
that's the question for today...is Third Party Consent something we have to
take serious concern over? If so, where
and in what bounds? And if vanillas come
to Xaara, how careful do we have to be, or do we at all?
[08:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): And...how
does this translate to First Life? If I
want to do something sorta kinky out in public, do I have to ask people
first? Or is it my problem if there's an
issue?
[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): ooo lots
of Cs! I love it!
[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): ok Nawa
we will start with you when ready!
[08:48] Nawa (moringward82): I get Irked /irritaded by
Brats, not when they are roleplaying with their Brat Tamers i they own
consentual Dynamic, but when they inadvertently involve others that have not
consented to it and that happens a lot, I can say from my experience Brats are
usually the One role that i see mostly breaking consent with third parties. I
love to see good bratting, when this is consentual, and in the correct setting,
read the room. #
[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): I get
that, it can be a bit....frustrating with the really "serious"
brats...I think general bratting isn't a problem though, and has to fall into
the "we all have our thing".
[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): But I do
want to point out this is more than just brats....
[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): As an
example, a few years ago during the Xmas Tree lighting ceremony we do every
year
[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): this guy
shows up, sees the community about the tree and submissives kneeling
[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): and he
goes into a TIZZY
[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): "Why
are these submissives kneeling? They're
HUMAN! This is an outrage to their
persons!"
[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): We were
like..."dude...do you know where you are?"
[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): he left
in a huff
[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): so did we
need to explain to him he might have the HORROR of subs kneeling here?
[08:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): I just don’t want to focus on bratty behavior; we did that a few weeks ago :P
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
Nawa!!
[15:52] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): eyes gleam "burn welcome mat at his
feet?"
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Rachel,
you're up please!
[15:52] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): I just had a
small comment. Xaara has been a really
really safe zone for me and I have no fears of others doing things to me
without consent...I think there might need extra thoughts of doing anything
without consent especially to those that are skittish to begin with.
[15:53] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): As far as what
visitors see when they get here...they should have expected a BDSM community
with leashes, titles of Master/Mistress...but since they are visitor any
interaction beyond that I say has to be consent.
[15:53] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Miss Vanni if
you want to do First Life Kink in public...just remember the RL laws...grins #
[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
Naturally!
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): In a few
weeks we'll do the talk on "Stealth BDSM" again...and how you can be
kinky under the noses of the vanillas! :P
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And I do
think we agree that getting anyone involved in a scene requires their
consent...I can't just go up and start flogging someone
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But some
have argued "if they come here they need to give consent to *see*
things."
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and
that's the crux for today
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
Rachel!
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan we
come to you please!
[15:55] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *Roll for Save Vs.
Johan's Wall of Text*
[15:55] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): This is a subject
near and dear to my heart, and I think there is room for nuance. For example - its well known this is a BDSM
and D/s centric Adult SIM. I believe
there is an expectation of play to be witnessed (Leashed, kneeling, use of
Honorifics/Protocols, etc.) But I also
think there are certain expectations of what is considered inappropriate as
well. For Bondage A GoGo you might see
in addition to the above more explicit forms of Bondage up to and including
sexual play, that might not be as appropriate at the Fountain Gathering or
during the Angel/Seraph Ceremonies, or during the Vannis' Koffee KLatch (Feel
free to do so publicly during my Easy Like a Sun Morning Set )
To add - in our Guidelines and Rules we expect everyone to
be "Respectful" - and to a point sometimes the public Bratting play
becomes publicly disrespectful. What do
we do at that point? In my opinion,
we CAN ask/expect to say something IF it becomes disrupting. But otherwise if
its not a disruption - we all can use the Mute/Block button freely. #
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hey I
don't mind a good sex scene during Klatch...but remember, I'm the East German
judge..."no...9.3 only on form, not 10." :P
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): also I've
mentioned this before...
[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): a few
years ago when we were still doing the big Sunday night discussions at the
Pier, a couple just started having sex in one of the chairs
[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): they said
nothing in chat, but they got naked and went at it in the middle of a
discussion
[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I looked
to see if Laz or Jamesen or anyone would say something but nope...they just
went at it and we kept going!
[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so it has
happened!
[15:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Yes, I probably
should have been more specific of "in local chat" vs. just animation
too :) Great Point!
[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): it was
interesting to say the least
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but one
other point to consider...we do have sex chairs here, at the Pier (or have) and
other kinky things about the sim
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and the
owners have said "open play is fine"....
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so I
guess it's the community that decides how open is open
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
Johan!
[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia
you're up please!
[16:00] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): NOTE: the RP play
observed at Bondage A GOGO last night was thrilling to observe. Well done,
hot..and respectful but erotic and sensual at every turn.
This is an Adult rated, BDSM Sim. Thus consideration of the
A aspect ..means open sexuality is on display, or can be on display. BDSM might
need its own explanation, as some of the Vanilla world does not grasp its full
depth and culture.
However...if one follows the website, one of the implied
tenants is "respect" . This not only means respect by those
observing, but respect demonstrated by those observed.
IF deep humiliation is your thing, fine, but respect that it
might not be everyone’s thing, and if you try to "force" it upon
observers, expect to be rebuffed in some manner. There is, of course, a time
and place for everything. Me...i simply get up and leave with no comment.
One would not take kindly to bad behaviour or a sudden
display of open intercourse during the Seraph Ceremony. Or having your
"piggie on a leash" suddenly walk on the stage during an XA show. #
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well
said!
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): sighs and scratches off "Open Intercourse
at Seraph Graduation" from the bucket list
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :P
[16:02] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): well darn
[16:02] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): laughs in RL!
[16:02] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): grins "before is okay Miss Vanni"
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh oh ok!
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): rewrites
[16:02] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "We can always
pretend a ceremony is going on.." chuckles.
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): that was
all well said Hestia
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and I
think "know your audience" is important
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): The
website is pretty clear, "Xaara has few rules, we expect everyone to be
adults."
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If it
were just that easy!!
[16:03] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): mumbles "and your partner in sex"
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ha!
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I hope
so!
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): 15 will
get you 20 years, ya know
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫
rimshot ♫
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
Hestia!
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Salis we
come to you please!
[16:04] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): At Xaara, as long
as we follow any sim rules, or TOS rules, consent from people around do not
need to be consulted. I would also note
that I almost never see any real BDSM play going on here. Anyone in SL has the
power to block someone at any time. #
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It is
pretty rare that anything beyond leashing, kneeling and such "fairly
light" stuff goes on openly
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We have
playrooms for that and they're pretty lightly used too
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I guess
people go home for the flogging and intercourse
[16:06] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): a well done public
scene is always a joy to observe.
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think
you made a good point that as long as we follow the basic rules we're good
Salis
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh
yes!!!!
[16:06] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): "That would be a
whole wonderful discussion topic I think Vanni, I know Chew had it briefly the
other night during the Chew Chat but an in depth one of 'what we expect in
public play at a BDSM centric SIM"
[16:06] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): nods
[16:06] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): HERE HERE!!!! YES
and Yeah varily and forsooth!
[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): could be
a good one!
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): with a
demo!
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): any
volunteers?
[16:07] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): gets in the
volunteer line
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok before
we get a bunch of wet panties, let's move on :P
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks
Salis!
[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Sydney
dear you are up please!
[16:08] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): Playful short
respectful bratting might be ok without 3rd party consent... by short I mean
not going on and on ... if the brat is expressing herself in a borderline
disrespect or might be embarrassing to her Dom or other Doms/subs around ... it
will probably cross the line with others nearby and should not occur. #
[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I totally
agree Sydney!
[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): See there
have been some people that have argued "if people have to SEE the scene,
they need to give consent"
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Not
saying I agree but that has been a point made over the years
[16:10] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Sim rules Rule
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I have a
second story I’ll tell later as I want to keep the queue moving but I'll want
your opinions when we get to it
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so
much Sydney! ♥
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Mr.
Darrow we are up to you please!
[16:11] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): Thank you Vanni- I
opine this needs to be taken in context, if one is in a RL Club, then one
expects to see RL sexuality- if in Costco- No.
Similarly if one is on an adult sim in SL one should expect
to see SL sexuality, if you are offended by SL sexuality do not frequent an
Adult sim. The idea that any of us
should moderate our SL sexuality to appease others is them kink shaming because
of their mindset-that they should determine what is acceptable. Yet I acknowledge as I began - context is
important. (more)
[16:12] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): Another thought-in
my opinion males tend to abuse women more in IM, then they would dare do in
nearby. By embracing a mentality that we
should keep anything past R rated in private, fosters such abuse. (done)
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree
totally with your first point, context is key and we need to all be adults.
[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But to be
sure I understand the second
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If we
tell people "keep your R+ talk in IM" then they have an avenue for
abuse....but aren't they just abusive anyway?
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I get the
point and approve but I'm not sure how us saying "say what you want
openly" would reduce the sick behavior?
[16:16] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): as far as abuse goes,
even as submissives we need to remember our responsibility to ourselves, if
someone gets in private and you do not consent you have to end it (unless I am
misunderstanding)
[16:16] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): My humble opinion
if we are more accepting of open sexuality then abusers will go to another
place where they can be in hiding.
[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ahhh!
[16:17] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Its an interesting
thought, and I think I can see it in a manner of speaking. There are people who
will behave respectfully and gentlemanly in public - then a complete Monster in
private (non-consensual) who then fall
back on the defense of "They were never that way when I saw them... she's
making things up"
[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes, I
understand, thanks for the clarification and the thoughts :)
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Very good
point Mr. Darrow and thanks for the thoughts on it Emma and Johan. We want NO abuse here at Xaara. Zero tolerance.
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said
and thank you :) ♥
[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Emma we
come to your comment please
[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): here goes lol
[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): I had typed my comment
up others have kind of said my thoughts somewhat - I think it is a question of
respect and expectation. (I have a wall of chat - sorry - I ramble, but this is
an important topic I think, I've postponed weekend sale shopping!)
[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): When someone comes to a
place like Xaara, I believe it's implied consent on what goes on (within set
rules and it's up to the person to find out what those are) and they are
obligated to respect that or they can go somewhere else. On the opposite side
of it, when someone lifestyle goes somewhere where there are different rules
& expectations, they should do the same. (my personal experience here in SL
has been quite one sided in that).
[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): To put it RL terms - you
would expect to see leashes, kneeling, awesome leathers & fetish-wear at
Hellfire Club in NYC, but not at Tavern on the Green (and odds are they'd make
you leave if you tried).
[16:19] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): I realize this is SL and
there are differences of course and more extremes we can safely experience but
if we are true in our beliefs about how we live in any life, why would we not
want to show people a respectful & true side of a lifestyle with so many
misconceptions even here? #
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We
appreciate your restraint...on shopping...more restraint let's negotiate :P
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And
yes....time, place and context is all super important.
[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I was
asked to leave Muddy's a couple times because the host/ess thought my
"dress was too short" and I had to change or leave....their rules,
their show.
[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): if I
walked in there wearing a harness showing off my bobbiez they'd have a heart
attack, and I'd get 30 IMs
[16:21] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): and banned
[16:22] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): many mainstream
clubs actually have written rules against displaying leashes and such
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): But at
the same time, coming to an Adult BDSM sim and screaming about "kneeling
subs!" like Mr. Christmas Tree did is just as absurd as me going to
Muddy's in a harness
[16:22] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): i once got asked to
leave a club because i had GOR groups in my list of groups!!!
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): yes they
do Cyan
[16:22] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): thats taking vanilla
touch far IMO
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That's
just silly IMO Hestia
[16:23] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): nods
[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I mean
going to a place in silks with a "Kajira" title...ok maybe
[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but just
a group? come on
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Emma that
was spot on and I have made two saves vs "Wall of Text" today :P
[16:24] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): was asked to hide her dirty groups before she
could arrive at a specific sim once
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I just
wouldn't go there
[16:24] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): thank You
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): sensible
rules are fine....that's just silly
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa back
to you please
[16:24] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): I would like to give a
few examples that have happened to me here in Xaara,i have just pushed it
behind me, and now have a little pick on my Profile that clearly states i do
not allow Fantasy Pushing. The first example was, someone i had never met or
spoken to neither Public/IM chat, approaches me and tells me to kneel and kiss
his feet. Reactions instant block. I believe in building rapport, sorry, sue me
im not a real submissive as i´ve read before. The second one was someone making
a full on description of what they´d do to me, bound in a latex suit in various
predicament positions..etc. reaction - no thank you, again rapport and i don´t
know you or have a consensual dynamic with you. third, in a class someone started
bratting when others shared their personal stories or experiences.... a big NO
for me, i found that extremely
rude/disruptive to everyone present, but since no one else said anything and i
was fairly new and still am to the Sim, my reaction was getting up and leave
the classroom. Now if you think these examples have broken my consent or not,
that is entirely your opinion of what has happened, We all have boundaries we
do not allow others to cross, I behave in SL the same way i behave in RL i
respect everyone and expect respect in return as long as i/you do not involve
others physically/personal by placing them directly in play without consent
everyone should be fine and happy to live their dynamics and roles. #
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa, I
agree in those scenarios you gave, that was just pure disrespect to you as a
person
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
Submissives....and women...are NOT some dood's masturbation tool
[16:26] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Unless they consent
to be that :)
[16:27] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): consent, key word
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And over
the years I've had similar things in my IM box and I've just muted instantly
with no reply
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh
sure....for the right person and time and place I might be a really dirty
slut....*grins*
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but
context matters!
[16:27] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Exactly - and Nawa if
that happens - blocking/muting, and even reporting them to SIM Management are
all good responses :)
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and just
going from "Hi" to a wall of text of what you want to do to
me.....BZZZZZZZT
[16:28] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): a good witty comback
often shuts them up. Guy sent me a dick pick...said he would love to see a pick
of my vagina. I told him to look in the mirror cause he was clearly a Giant
twat..
[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL!
[16:28] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol
[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): hands Hestia a gold star
[16:29] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *makes a note
of that*
[16:29] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lol
[16:29] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): it was a fugly dick
pick too! hehe
[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): If I WANT
to see your thang I'll say so!
[16:29] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): (not sure why the ugly
ones are usually the ones they want to show off?)
[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ego
problems
[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lack of
self esteem
[16:30] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): only pick they
could show?
[16:30] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think my favorite
I've seen was someone asked if 'they could talk to it" and the guy said
yes.. so they replied with a Gif of Dory from Finding Nemo saying "Hey
little guy"
[16:30] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): snorts with
laughter
[16:30] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lolol
[16:30] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol
[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL
[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Nawa
excellent points! And sorry you've had
that happen here. But it's an open sim
and we do get some of the bottom feeders.
[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Autumn
thanks for waiting you are up
[16:31] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I know I have
some kinks that wouldn't appeal to everything, so personally, I do my best to
limit certain things, say certain Honorifics when in a group where I don't know
everyone, because I don't want to accidentally trigger someone. Now, somethings vary based on where in SL, or
say, even where in Xaara I am. Some of
it to me is as simple as read the room.
I remember in Gor a couple times, girls showing their "need"
during formal events, and that is just not the time or place. But to go to a BDSM sim of any kind, you have
to know you are consenting to being around adult themes, it would be like going
to a BDSM club in RL and getting offended.
So, there are a lot of factors that come into play, which is why I tend
to be more cautious in large groups, read the room, and try not to upset
anyone. #
[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Well
said!!
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): And believe
it or not, a few times over the years at
my RL club, we have had a few new folks show up and get all bent out of shape
over scenes they found "distasteful"
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): They were
told "go look elsewhere or leave"
[16:33] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): shakes my head
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the young
guys who showed up and thought we were a sex club were funny though
[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
"what's going on here...I thought we'd get laid?"
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the
Dungeon Monitor said "no but you might get whipped, kid."
[16:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Meanwhile in my book,
I wrote a scene where someone took the FMC to a BDSM Club and he was shocked
that there wasn't orgies going on everywhere
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): JINX!
[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): art
mirrors life, Johan!
[16:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *subtle plug you can
find my book on KindleU for free*
[16:35] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): get you
laid? we are BDSM club, not miracle workers
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL
Princess
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): perks at "plug" then settles back in
her chair
[16:35] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): I went to a RL playparty
at a Domme's house, was a regular monthly thing - rules were no sex....sex
happened in the room one day - I was a bit put off to be honest lol, I just
left the room
[16:35] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): but her house her rules
[16:35] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): even in on premise
swing clubs ...consent is requireed...everywhere but the orgy room (RL
experience here)
[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Yeah we
only allow penetrative sex at very specific parties
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): known in
advance
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): makes a few notes to speak to Hestia later...
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): :P
[16:36] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): giggles....am an
open book!
[16:36] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): yeah...like
being "innocent"?
[16:36] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): snorts
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): of what
exactly?
[16:36] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): shhh Rachel!
[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ;)
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Autumn
excellent comment!
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks! ♥
[16:37] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): grins
[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to
wombi with a question
[16:38] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): What is implied
consent and how does this apply here? If you participate in activities, active
consent is needed. To watch is giving implied "implied consent".
Although, knowing the event you are at. Play is fine, just not in the middle of
a discussion. Apropo should be the rule. Also, there should be a warning about
"3rd party consent" for visitors. "You may see active BDSM
..." #
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I think
"Implied Consent" is "if you come to an Adult BDSM sim that is
labeled that way in search, you are consenting to dealing with what you see
here or leaving."
[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Does
anyone else think that works or is more or less needed? (no C just answer please)
[16:40] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): Sadly common sense is
not so common especially in SL - but do the problem happen often enough to
merit more details given?
[16:40] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think it
works. Its the same as nude
beaches. go to a nude beach, expect to
see nude avi's
[16:40] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol, i was just about
to say the same Emma
[16:40] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): People are idiots.
Don't understand "implied" means to them. lol
[16:40] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): agreed
wombi...people can be incredibly dim
[16:40] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I agree, implied
consent, for me, means I will leave if something happens that I wasn't
expecting.
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli):
"Stupidity cannot be cured by legislation or education." -- Robert Heinlein
[16:41] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): go to
Japan, expect to see people kneeling eating their sushi
[16:41] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): I agree with you
Vanni, if you land on an Adult sim, you have consented to adult themes, as you
said about folks getting offended at a RL Club: new folks show up and get all bent out of shape over scenes
they found "distasteful"
“Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (vanessa.cannoli): They were told
"go look elsewhere or leave"”
[16:42] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Good question my
friend! So we teach the class on
"Consent" which in many BDSM
terms we consider consent to be 'explicit'.
(Updating the course soon hopefully to include CCCC model of
consent). So for BDSM activities
themselves there is a specific discussion of what is going to occur, and what
each party agrees to. However, Implied
Consent does not necessarily apply to BDSM/kink - scenes itself but more of a
general idea. Sydney and I are in a
consensual relationship - we agreed beforehand (and often and regularly update
our consent) - but there are some things we have 'tacitly' implied are ok. Her kneeling at my feet, her defering to me
as her Dominant, etc. and as Vannis said, when you are in certain space - there
is a expectation of social behavior one agrees to in that space.
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Like Emma
said..."Our house our rules"...
[16:42] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): (sorry recently saw a
meme - I'm told I need anger management? , how about setting up some stupid
management?)
[16:42] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): Ran into a
situation where someone was doing RP in chat at an event that was not
appropriate. I just left, since it was in an area that I didn't like. I left
[16:42] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): that is what i do
wombi. i just leave
[16:43] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): or i block them!
[16:43] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): WE do it, others
go full "Karen/Kyle" mode. lol
[16:43] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): we
already have enough stupid management in Washington
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): We always
need to remember that what I or we think is "inappropriate" isn't
what everyone else might think is "inappropriate" there
[16:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): ooh thts a good way
to put it, Implied consent is like TOS.
You agree to it when you sign up/show up
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok so I
have a short story to end us
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I want
your opinions on this
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and a
couple of you *may* have heard this
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): So a
number of years ago I was at a workshop at a local BDSM expo
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and a Dom
guy was explaining this thing he did with his sub
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): she LOVES
being objectified and humiliated in public
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): totally
consensual and she gets really turned on
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so they
would go to a restaurant (as an example he gave)
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and he
wouldn't let her see a menu
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and when
the server came up he would order first for himself
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): then
point at his girl and say "IT will have the chicken pasta, and IT will
have the garden salad, and IT will have a glass of chardonnay"
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): and she
said she would get all wet hearing that
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but when
I've told this story some people get upset
[16:49] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): Why?
[16:49] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Because of the
use of IT
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "The
server didn't consent. The people in the
restaurant didn't consent. How could
they do that?"
[16:49] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): the
server
[16:49] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): so what
think y'all?
[16:50] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): I think if he
just ordered for her, with out the use of IT, it would be fine, but by using
IT, you are including the server, and that's not ok
[16:50] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): because in todays
society, it would be seen as borderline abuse of a woman. and in terms of our chat, it was borderline
forcing a kink upon someone whom did not consent to be involved...?
[16:50] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): brings up my
other thought of the recipient wanting the abuse
[16:50] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): I might have broken
many times the consent of Waiters in RL
[16:50] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): agrees with Autumn
[16:50] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think I agree that
the server didn't consent. And you could
be setting yourself up for "issues" by being asked to leave, etc.
[16:50] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): thinks the server did not agree to become part
of this roleplay, they shuld not be required to listen to it
[16:50] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Yes, because how
is the server to know she consented to that, I would first assume abuse as a
server
[16:51] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): nods
[16:51] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): and reinforces the
misconceptions of lifestyle being abuse among those who do not understand as
well
[16:51] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): wrong place and
time in my opinion to do that scene
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): All very
good points!
[16:51] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Great point Emma!
[16:51] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): thank you :)
[16:51] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): RL? That idiot was
pushing to go to jail. A simple explanation
of "We are doing some RP as a Master and servant". would have
helped.
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): but (and
this was his counter) how could they do it minus just doing it....
[16:51] TobyDarrow (TobyDarrow Resident): this is a very
close call for Me---I fall on the side of the use of the word "it" ~
It is too strong of a word to use in vanilla Public; if He said "she"
then that falls on the OK side,
[16:51] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): i consider it
disrespectful but does it cross the line and needs consent?
[16:52] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): Even could have
used They instead of it, and it would have been ok
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): I do
think that's fine at the club btw, not at a restaurant
[16:52] Princess Joy (PrincessJoyBelmont Resident): agrees with Toby
[16:53] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Firstly I agree with
everyone - but to counterpoint, that could be a scale of egregiousness. Referring to a person as "It" is
between the two and they didn't force the waiter and other patrons to also
refer to her as 'it' - so its really not
much difference than if he'd walked her in on a leash or made her kneel by the
table out of the way.
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): in fact
I've used that line at our club during FemDom parites..."IT will get me a
diet coke" and subs go running to comply :P
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): That was
his logic Johan
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): "I'm
not making them say anything to her.”
[16:54] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I just think in
today's society of the "easily offended" you are setting yourself up for issues...
[16:54] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I personally wouldn't
do that. Nor do I think Sydney would agree or consent to it, but its one of those If I were the waiter
I'd probably talk shit about them later.
[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Likely
[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): It sort
of encapsulates the whole idea of "third party consent" so it's why I
tell it
[16:54] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): personally I am always
in any situation not wanting to make anyone uncomfortable even for my own
pleasure or displeasure - so deep no for me
[16:55] Autumn (AutumnRaineSkye Resident): nods in agreement with Emma
[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): All good
points!
[16:55] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Because we also are
assuming whether the waiter was bothered by it.. I don't think the other patrons in the
restuarant would even be aware unless he was LOUDLY using "IT"
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): he didn't
say what the server said
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): or did or
thought
[16:56] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): and the waiter may have
gotten over it with a big enough tip? ;-)
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): likely
the server just looked at them, thought "weirdos" and kept working
[16:56] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Food
servers see and deal with a lot of strange people!
[16:57] Gɾαcєє
Lєє (Magen Miles): c to Cyan "yes I remember days we could have a
respectful discussion on having different views then a peer and it not turn
into offended"
[16:57] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): nods
[16:57] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): Maybe they were
already into a D/s relationship and was heavy into BDSM? lol
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): the Dom
guy and his girl I was talking about, Wombi?
[16:58] Gɾαcєє
Lєє (Magen Miles): It was something also mentioned at Master Chews Chat how our
society easily offened now #
[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): If I were the waiter
(and not into kink) I would think to myself "what in the 'it puts the
lotion on its skin, or it gets eczema again" is going on?"
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): lolol
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): well
remember we kick the can around here, not solve world peas
[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): any final
comments?
[16:58] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Mmmm whirled peas
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): giggles
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): ok thank
you all for commenting and being here!
[16:59] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): it all comes down to
respect. :)
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): See you
here in two weeks!
[16:59] (Jack O'
Lantern Discussion Tracker): Thank you for attending this discussion.
[16:59] (Jack O'
Lantern Discussion Tracker): The tracker is now off and the floor is open to
everyone.
[16:59] Violet Stuer (Violet Stuer): Many thanks, Miss
Vanessa
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed
Hestia!
[16:59] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Great discussion
Vanni! I've been anxiously awaiting this
topic to hear it :)
[16:59] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): now where is that
spanking line????? are there treats????
[16:59] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): Thanks E/everyone
for the great discussion!
[16:59] Nawa (moringward82 Resident): lol
[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli-Lysette (Vanessa Cannoli): oh well
we'll have the demo in a few weeks :P
[16:59] EmmaLee (EmmaLee Streeter): Thank you A/all - I've
learned a lot and have new things to consider!
[16:59] Rachel Aimar (RachelHolt Resident): Thank you Miss
Vanni and E/everyone...great discussion
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