[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): all right time to get started
[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and
welcome to Koffee Klatch!
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions
are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if
you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually
directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract
either your C or your Q. If a person has
a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @
[name]"
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in
the order received; however, we generally will promote questions directed at a
person's comment to the top. The
handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.
[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open. Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy! Thank you! ♥
[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here: https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/ It houses current and many older discussions.
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of
the way, we'll begin.
[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I have some
exposition as usual...so as I ramble a bit start getting in your Cs and Qs
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We continue with
our set of Discussions on the BDSM acronym, today going into the middle
part...D/s, or "Domination" and "Submission"
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today our topic
is Domination.
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): D/s is related to
but different from being a Top and a Bottom.
[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Tops and Bottoms
are roles in *scenes* -- I go to my local club and usually act as a Top,
occasionally a Bottom, in a scene that goes 1-2 hours.
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): After the scene
is over, the very temporary power exchange ends, we're back to 'neutral.'
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I usually only
rarely talk to anyone I scene with live.... check-ins to be sure they are ok,
and then plans for our next disgusting, appalling but oh-so-fun encounter.
[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Domination and submission, on the other hand, are characteristics that transcend the one-off scene.
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): There is a real
psychological and sociological aspect to being a "Dominant" or a
"submissive".
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So four questions
to consider as we move to comments from the August Assembly...
[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 1) What is Domination? Is it an attitude, is it
a role, is it a psychology and sociology? A combination and maybe more?
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 2) What is it
that makes our Dominants here "Dominant," or what do sub-types see as
"Dominant"? How would it be described and how is it done ethically?
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 3) Why do Dom/mes do what it is they do
(Dominate in various areas)...what drives them to wanting that control?
[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and 4) why are
s-types so attracted to this? Why would they drop what they are doing and to
their knees if the right Dom comes along and just gives them that ***LOOK***?
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You can go with
any of these or branch off as long as it relates to Domination!
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So with
that...formulate a comment or question!
[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *sips coffee and
waits*
[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wombi when you are ready please!
[15:50] wombaticus (wombaticus Resident): Confidence and
self Control (Wasn't going to talk during this discussion, though.)#
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): alright thanks wombaticus!
[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Salis we come to
you please!
[15:52] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): Domination to me is having a high level of control over another person, in D/s that is consensual #
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We talked a few
weeks ago about personality disorders that do not have a place in D/s, and you
are 100% spot on that ethical D/s is always consensual.
[15:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Of course what is
"consensual" can vary from one D/s connection to the other.
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But the ethical
Dominant doesn't just push their way on another person....well unless such
pushing is consensual *giggles*
[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good point,
thanks Salis!
[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia when you
are ready please!
[15:56] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Domination is a
concept. ....it is allowed to exist thro the inaction, of those whom dwell
under that concept.
[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You mean if the
sub rebels against the Dominant?
[15:58] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): In the case of
D/s...yes Mistress.
[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well...and I'd welcome any responses to this (minus a C please!)...if a sub rebels against a Dominant, then is that person a submissive...and I mean here to usually agreed upon, consensual acts?
[16:00] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I mean, yes and
no? There are variances.. In some
instances 'bratting' can be considered rebelling, as can CNC, but in the most
specific yes. If a Submissive decides to
no longer follow the instruction/rules/order/ of a Dominant, then essence the
"Domination" no longer exists between them. #
[16:00] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): IF, as some say, the Submissive has the power, then just as they are free to submit, they are likewise free to cancel said arrangement....hence overthrow Dominantion.
[16:01] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Also, even if a dominant's
attempts are rejected, they may still have the psychology of a dominant.
[16:01] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): #
[16:01] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I think though that
is distinctive between Dominant/Dominance/Domination
[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We'll get into
brats in a few weeks heh hyeh
[16:02] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *claps*
[16:02] RB (RBQuinn Resident): laughs
[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but bratting is
only rebellion (IMO) if it goes beyond what bratting is allowed between Dom and
Brat
[16:03] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I would agree with Hestia
that if a sub rejects a dominant, then there is no 'D/s relationship'.
[16:03] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): nods
[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): although it
appears to be naked rebellion to those outside
[16:03] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): yes I agree with RB
and Hestia
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed! but if I have a Dominant and I just say
"no I'm not doing that agreed upon thing, simply because I don't want to
do it" I'd have to question my
submission. And certainly that's
canceling the connection as it is
[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "No I
won't" vs "Please not tonight I'm sick" are two different things
I think.
[16:05] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): nods in agreement with Miss Vanni
[16:05] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): As is "No, that
is against my limits or what we agreed on" as well
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): oh sure
[16:05] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): exactly Miss
Vanni...Domination is only the controlling force if you allow it to be.
[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): that's why I
stressed *agreed upon* Johan :)
[16:06] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): 100% I just wanted to also make sure any subs here
didn't worry that they were breaking their submissive/Dominant relationship by
upholding their limits :)
[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And that gets
back to ethics -- the ethical Dominant doesn't push understood limits because
it's "my right as your Dom/me".
That's no bueno around here.
[16:09] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think that if a sub rebels, in some way that may also be a sign of a breakdown in communication. Perhaps talking about issues,
or talking about changing needs..
[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But if I'm a
Domme of a person, I can also reasonably expect said sub will obey what we've
agreed upon unless a reason comes up (illness, life needs, etc) that we talk
about. Then it would be unreasonable for
me to expect them to just obey anyway at that time. IMO anyway.
[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100% Cyan
[16:10] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): I think the
Dominant would need to talk to the sub before the relationship stops, if the
sub is willing. Both of them owe that to each other
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's a dance, not
a one-way street *grins*
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes!
[16:10] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): nods
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): although
"ghosting" is far too common in SL :/
[16:10] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Two to Tangle, three
to form a Cha-Cha Line, but only 1 to do the twist!
[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): giggles
[16:10] Sultry (Sultry Shadow): grins
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): How about a game
of Crisco Twister later...uh...I'll explain then...
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫
rimshot ♫
[16:11] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Last time I did that
I couldn't get the grease out of the shower for a week
[16:11] Reg (Reginal Lundquist): Going back to the original
questions, If I was to characterize it, Domination would be defined as a
personality type, someone that already has control over himself before all
things. They act as an anchor of consistent behavior that fosters confidence
and mutual respect. As for what drives them is the need to lead and be seen
just like a Sub in many ways, just in a different form we know as roles. In the
end the consensual aspect comes down to understanding each others wants needs
and boundaries, which are different for everyone. Lastly the attraction is the
delta between what the Dominant brings to the role and what a sub finds
compelling in any sort of exchange of discussion or exploration. We all have an
idea of what makes us tick, which may or may not resonate for a sub and that's
fine, however it does foster conversation and communication and ultimately
thats the goal and what builds trust.
[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia thanks for
that comment and thanks y'all for the thoughts!
I love how we move along
[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Reg was that your
comment down the queue?
[16:12] Reg (Reginal Lundquist): yes sorry I jumped the line
[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh it's ok!
[16:14] Reg (Reginal Lundquist): that was it
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Domination is
very much a personality type IMO...so is submission. People can be naturally more active and
leading while others can be more passive, helping in the back and being happy
to hear "good job"
[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but that doesn't
necessarily make them "Dominants" and "submissives" as we
see them
[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yet at the same
time that's very much the kind of role and behavior good Dom/mes and subs
manifest
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): My current
Department Dean is an Irish woman, very Dominant in her way but she doesn't do
BDSM that I know of lol...but she leads super well and always makes sure we all
know we're appreciated
[16:16] Reg (Reginal Lundquist): Good example
[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And subbies,
doesn't that make your hearts beat a bit faster when that Dom says "job
well done, I appreciate it" with that smile and LOOK
[16:17] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): O_O
[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): winks at the subbies ;)
[16:18] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *nods
enthusiastically*
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Reg thanks, good
points!
[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Cyan please!
[16:18] Reg (Reginal Lundquist): Thank you..
[16:18] Jenine (Illana Kuu): yes it does!
[16:19] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think a Dominant is a state of being. A projection of ones attitude and persona. It is everything combined, the confidence, the "i'm in charge" attitude, the way one dresses, the way one interacts with others, the way one carries one;s self. And it really goes beyond D/s into other aspects of someone's life. Dominants tend to want to "be in charge" in things outside BDSM too. That being said, there can be a fine line between being a confident dom(me) and becoming overbearing and honestly rude. And of course consent and ethical behaviour go hand in hand with a true good dom(me) persona. of course this is the persona, there is much more to being a good dom(me) than just having the persona. #
[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A person who is
overbearing and rude isn't a Dominant at all as we would describe
them....they're a boor
[16:20] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): yes
[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and a rude person
IMO is over-compensating for the fact they *aren't* really a Dominant person,
they're just trying to push their will minus real confidence
[16:21] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I think too many in
SL cross that line and still think they are good dominants
[16:22] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): Good is such a
relative and subjective term
[16:22] Salis Reis (SalihReis Resident): also
"bad"
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): when some people
get on the road they think they can drive...but they can't lol
[16:22] Sultry (Sultry Shadow): lol
[16:22] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oh that's totally
true, Salis
[16:22] IronWolf (IronWolf Skydancer): Smiles
[16:22] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): it is subjective for
sure..
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I think for a
person to say "I'm an ethical Dom/me" in their community there is
some standard. What that standard is, however, is quite subjective. Xaara vs
Gor, for example.
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What is totally
fine in Port Kar might not go here, and vice-versa.
[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And that's fine!
[16:24] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): Reputation is a big
part of it too
[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed
[16:25] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): hence...READ
profiles :)
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I can tell you
that the RL community is pretty hamish, even in a large city like Los
Angeles. If someone does something dumb
at our club, word gets around pretty fast and they find their reputation
precedes them!
[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed Hestia!
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "No points,
no Picks, no service!" ;)
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫
rimshot ♫
[16:27] IronWolf (IronWolf Skydancer): chuckles
[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Cyan very good
points thank you for that!
[16:27] Sultry (Sultry Shadow): giggles to herself while she thinks how she's
missed that rimshot
[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Jenine, we come
to you, thanks for waiting!
[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): winks at Sultry with a grin
[16:28] Jenine (Illana Kuu): takes a breath..
[16:28] Jenine (Illana Kuu): Mine ties to a bit of my past,
but ties in a very real sense of True Dominance.
A few weeks/months ago I was actively tying myself back into
a D/s system that only knew about.
I saw first hand how gorean masters treat their girls/slaves
and the lack of consent. Especially after coming here to Xaara.
the same master I had been interacting while healing from
emotional damage tried to get me to see myself as Chattle.
So the Difference between D/s and Consent is a major
learning point for me. In that I willing
do as my Miss asks as a Dommes and its healthy and all by Consent.
[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm sorry you
went through that Jenine, and I am very glad you are in a much better situation
now!
[09:30] Jenine (illana.kuu): thank you Mistress Vanessa, it
just feels good to get it out
[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli: The only slight change I'd make to
what you said above is there is a difference between "consensual D/s"
and "abuse"...what you were experiencing sounds like psychological
and emotional abuse
[09:31] Johan Dark (wjohanw): Was this a Gorean roleplay SIM or a Lifestyle Gorean, if I can ask?
[09:32] Vanessa Cannoli: If you were being told you were
chatel and worthless, and that was hurting you in any way, that was a big
problem (as opposed to people who like hearing that in their own connections)
[09:34] Vanessa Cannoli: A real Dominant can simply give an order and be obeyed.."Get me a gin and tonic" and that look and voice inspire instant obedience in a submissive
[09:34] Vanessa Cannoli: as opposed to name calling, abuse,
scorn..ugh!
[09:35] Vanessa Cannoli: You're safe now lovely
[09:36] Vanessa Cannoli: that is what's important
[09:36] Vanessa Cannoli: and thank you for your
contribution!
[09:36] Vanessa Cannoli: Johan go ahead when ready please!
[09:37] Jenine (illana.kuu): your welcome Mistress Vanessa
and I truly feel safe here yes
[09:37] Vanessa Cannoli: 💖
[09:37] Jenine (illana.kuu) smiles still wiping her eyes a
little
[09:39] Johan Dark (wjohanw): I just want to clarify something, Gor as written is a fantasy world, but in THAT world which has spawned both roleplay groups and interest to many in BDSM, the 'slaves' aren't necessarily submissive. (Nor are all women, though Norman is a horrible misogynist, that believes all women are) - In Gor, yes, the slaves ARE treated as Chattel and having limited worth, while yet in Norman's own MULTITUDE of inconsistent writings, entire wars have been fought over them. So its not truly Domination in a ethical BDSM sense (and why I can't wrap my brain around Lifestyle Goreans) - but purely in a roleplay/character sense. That doesn't mean BDSM practitioners can't Roleplay Goreans, or even base their BDSM on some aspects of Gor, but it also isn't for everyone. #doneinant can simply give an order and be obeyed.."Get me a gin and tonic" and that look and voice inspire instant obedience in a submissive
[16:40] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): nods....What he
said! YES
[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed, and I don't think it's fair to say all Goreans act in any way, I know people that do Gorean RP that are very ethical
[16:40] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): nods emphatically
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But the mindset and the lifestyle tends to draw...some unsavory characters as well
[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): very much
"caveat emptor" in Gor..."let the buyer beware"
[16:41] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Indeed, I did 20+
years of Gorean RP in AOL and SL, and
its 'flavored' my BDSM practices, but I am 100% a proponent for Consent,
Limits, Boundaries, Aftercare, and making sure my submissives needs are taken
care of on both the masochistic and 'caregiver' side of the coin.
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yay!
[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good points,
thanks Johan!
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia we come
back to you please!
[16:43] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Gor was about Honor
and Steel....but it has been transmuted in the past years to Disney Gor, with
the main concept of men brutalizing women....women are all slaves...and have no
value. #
[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well as a sociologist I can tell you that nothing social stays static heh heh
[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so Gor evolving
(or devolving as Hestia's point might make) into something else is not terribly
surprising.
[16:44] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): To be fair, its
always been about brutalizing women and war.
[16:45] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Especially when it attracts
those pseudo-dominants you mentioned earlier, Vanni
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but again I think
there are decent people doing Gorean RP, one just needs to be careful
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): agreed RB
[16:45] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): it is great RP. a
great culture to RP. but you have to read a few of the books or ...you have no
clue :)
[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Here we don't put
up with abusers, but they can "hide" so to speak as a fierce Master
or something similar in a Gorean sim.
[16:46] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): but in the end ,
they are always found out
[16:46] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): one can only 'hide'
so long
[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "You can try
to run but you can't hide from what's inside of you." -- Steely Dan
[16:46] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I agree with RB and
Johan. And while I do not kink shame...
lets just say I do not fit into Gor philosophy
at all... so I avoid it like the plague
[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I knew a lesbian
couple that RPed as a free woman and her slave for years in various Gorean
sims...they really seemed to enjoy it
[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so...it can work!
[16:48] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): I suppose I should
say I do differentiate between RP and Lifestyle. I disagree with the philosophy as a lifestyle
[16:48] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): It 100% can, MOST
people who rp in Gor do so knowing the setting (therefore consenting) and the
good thing about roleplay is consent even as a GOrean slave can still be
withdrawn OOC if not IC.
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!
[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hestia thanks!
[16:49] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): nods
[16:50] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I agree. Maybe the danger lies in observers who see it as a model for 'real' interactions
[16:50] Sultry (Sultry Shadow): I have yet to experience the Gorean RP. I just never thought I had the type of creativity or imagination that would be required.
[16:50] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): points to my profile.."you all know Gor is not real..right??"
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A bunch of years ago a friend directed me to look at a RL Gorean lifestyle forum she found
[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The "Masters" were busy discussing in one thread if their kajira wives or girls should vote
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Many said no
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): One said
"yes, but we fill out their ballot for them"
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and they all
really liked that idea...
[16:51] RB (RBQuinn Resident): ha!
[16:51] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Glorious Ar is still
around...oldest Gorean Sim..lifestyle. I know the owners personally
[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ar you sure?
[16:52] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *badum tish*
[16:52] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): oh that was BAD miss
Vanni! haha
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫
rimshot ♫
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): sorry couldn't resist :P
[16:52] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): lol
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok so with that
horrible pun we are done for today
[16:52] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): arar arararar!
[16:52] IronWolf (IronWolf Skydancer): Smiles
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): thank you all so
much for your participation!
[16:52] Cyan d'Azure (Cyan08 Resident): lol
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You're what makes
it great
[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol Hestia :P
[16:52] Reg (Reginal Lundquist): Thank you all for your
input and feedback, love hearing the insights.
[16:52] Hestia (sarynaGareth Resident): Thanyou Miss Vanni
[16:52] Pilar Raynier (Pilar Raynier): Thank you so much for
another interesting discussion
[16:53] Sultry (Sultry Shadow): A wonderful discussion, Miss
Vanni! Just as I remember them to be. ;)
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan is up next
week to DJ
[16:53] IronWolf (IronWolf Skydancer): Great discussion.
Thank you.
[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): then in two weeks
we talk about submission!
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