[08:42] Vanessa Cannoli: ok we'll start up
[08:43] Vanessa Cannoli: Good morning and welcome to Koffee
Klatch!
[08:43] Vanessa Cannoli: Our discussions are in text and are
in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a
comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's
comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your
Q. If a person has a question for a
specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"
[08:43] Vanessa Cannoli: We tend to go in the order
received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's
comment to the top. The handy-dandy
giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.
[08:44] Vanessa Cannoli: If a person asks a question of the
group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the
question will be open. Just answer, or
we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.
[08:44] Vanessa Cannoli: Please keep further greetings and
extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy! Thank you! ♥
[08:44] Vanessa Cannoli: The archive for this Klatch can be
found here:
https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/
It houses current and many older discussions.
[08:44] Vanessa Cannoli: With that out of the way, we'll
begin.
[08:45] Vanessa Cannoli: Today we continue our discussion of
the BDSM acronym. We went over Bondage,
Discipline and ideas around that. Then
we moved to S/M -- Sado Masochism. We
discussed the fun of Sadism, the joy of Masochism.
[08:46] Vanessa Cannoli: This week we go to Extreme Play as
it's often called
[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli: Should be mentioned right off that
this is a very "relative" kind of term
[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli: as what's "extreme" for
one person might be rather "usual" to another
[08:48] Vanessa Cannoli: "Bloodplay! how appalling!" or ""Made
Dinner, Watched Leave it to Beaver rerun, got electroshocked on my groin for
two hours...typical Saturday evening...."
[08:48] Vanessa Cannoli: I'm not suggesting that was MY
Saturday evening!
[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli: Now going back to Bloodplay as an
example
[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli: A guy at my RL club used to do this
with willing bottoms
[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli: not slicing anyone open but cutting
enough to draw blood...while wearing a skull mask....
[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli: Now the guy knew what he was doing,
he stopped the bleeding, had a full first aid kit there, sterilized and
bandaged everything, used proper covering and did full cleanup
[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli: but it caused a HUGE stir as you
might imagine
[08:50] Sydney ღ Dark (badvudo): *shivers and scrunches
down leaning on Sire*
[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli: I've also mentioned the guy that
liked extreme foodplay
[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli: One time he put a turnip in his
girl's bunghole, a few celerysticks in her vag, and sprayed chocolate sauce
over her while screaming 'Hail Satan!" at the top of his lungs
[08:52] Vanessa Cannoli: (no...I'm not kidding)
[08:52] Johan Dark (wjohanw): New version of tossing a salad
I guess..
[08:53] Vanessa Cannoli: He got banned from doing that, not
because the board had with an issue with the play per se, but he made a real
mess that required a professional cleaner.
[08:53] Vanessa Cannoli: Anyway, the point is that there are
people that are involved in some things that make others recoil, but for them,
the usual arse beating and whipping is just way too pedestrian.
[08:54] Vanessa Cannoli: And of course we should remember
that things we like -- paddling, shibari, whipping etc -- all make the vanillas
recoil in horror too at times
[08:55] Vanessa Cannoli: so the questions for today are:
[08:55] Vanessa Cannoli: 1) Do you enjoy some kind of
"extreme" play, or has play you've engaged in been labeled
"extreme?" Or is this just not
your thing? and..
[08:57] Vanessa Cannoli: 2) How can we recreate such scenes
here? After all minus tactile aspects of
this in SL, it's hard to really do a bloodplay scene, or a flogging with a
barbed wire flogger (yes, I've seen that too) or whatever might come to
mind. Is it all "theater of the
mind" and is that satisfying enough?
[08:58] Vanessa Cannoli: Johan when ready please!
[09:02] Johan Dark (wjohanw): Thank you Vanni for hitting
such a hard topic that isn't often discussed! I have no problem with extreme
play - but want to point out in general that Extreme is generally where Safe,
Sane, Consensual moves slightly more towards "Risk Aware Consensual
Kink" and or 'Personal Responsibility Informed Consensual Kink" for
those who may not be familiar with the other two acronyms. Its the perfect set of examples of
"Your kink may not be my kink, but thats ok" as long as all the parties
are informed, experienced, willing adults who know what they are doing and what
they are getting into. I do like a
bit of knife play, possible gun play (Unloaded or preferably "plastic -
training only weapon), With my subs I've
done Tattoo play and piercing play in SL, whether or not it worked minds eye,
you'd have to ask Sydney and Kahlan, but I think if you are a descriptive
enough writer ( *Cough, My book is available on KU link in my profile j/K ...or
not kidding ) I think people can still enjoy
and build up that frame of reference.
But as someone who thought "Well, I have a high pain tolerance..
Maybe I'd like being flogged?" (I
did not!.. yep, definitely a Giver not a Receiver here) some things can only truly be experienced
first hand. So if you are exploring -
please vet and verify the tops who will be working with you. #done
[09:04] Vanessa Cannoli: Yes making sure who one is doing
these things with is essential!
[09:05] Vanessa Cannoli: and I do like how you pointed out
this is a sliding scale, so what's seen as "extreme" falls under the
usual rules of consent and safety (well as safe as we can make it!)
[09:05] Vanessa Cannoli: I watched a very
"extreme" electroplay scene a couple years ago, the bottom could
barely walk after and needed over two hours of aftercare
[09:05] Vanessa Cannoli: some people were turned off by it
[09:06] Vanessa Cannoli: but the DM watched it closely and
made sure nothing went out of hand
[09:06] Vanessa Cannoli: and it came down to "you don't
want to watch, there's plenty of club around"
[09:07] Vanessa Cannoli: and I would be interested to hear
how your girls responded to the tattoo play! ;)
[09:07] Vanessa Cannoli: *winks at the lovely Sydney*
[09:07] Vanessa Cannoli: Thanks Johan!
[09:07] Vanessa Cannoli: wombaticus you are up please!
[09:07] wombaticus: In regards to the SL representation, the
animation, sound effects and such can be built. But have they been?
[09:08] Johan Dark (wjohanw): Depends on the furniture or
use, but yes
[09:08] wombaticus: Some have, but only in vore sims, I have
noticed.#
[09:09] Vanessa Cannoli: I mentioned I think two weeks ago
that Stepford here is all geared up for "roasting" people...
[09:09] Vanessa Cannoli: which is pretty extreme lol
[09:09] ⱡ
Shey đ’Hecate ⱡ (cuddleprincess) is online.
[09:09] Vanessa Cannoli: "being invited for
dinner" takes on a new meaning!
[09:11] Vanessa Cannoli: I actually knew a Domme here who
claimed she had created the first dolcett/vore sim here...she was quite proud
of it in fact. I have no idea if she was telling the truth though...and didn't
want a tour of that sim either..... ;)
[09:11] Vanessa Cannoli: Thanks wombaticus!
[09:11] Vanessa Cannoli: Cyan we come to you please!
[09:12] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): Thank you Vanni
[09:12] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): As you say, extreme is
relative. Perhaps the most extreme play
I have tried to recreate here is sensory deprivation. As you say, it is all in the mind here. But I think I have been able to recreate it
somewhat using AnaVision and restrictions on IMs, movement, etc. And using outfits that visually reproduce it,
like full rubber suits or something similar.
Recreating for the sub where they have a black screen and the only
communication is with me, and I myself only emoting... seems to have worked
somewhat. Is it RL? no.
But imagination can be powerful if both are vested in it. I would also add that even though something
like this is online only and imagination only, if both are so invested in it
emotionally, aftercare is just as important as any RL scene.
[09:13] Vanessa Cannoli: I 100% agree!
[09:13] Vanessa Cannoli: and theater of the mind can have a
profound effect
[09:14] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08) nods
[09:14] Vanessa Cannoli: I mean, I hear people have sex in
SL....
[09:14] Vanessa Cannoli: and it's satisfying....so I hear
[09:14] wombaticus: Helps of the computers are 2 feet away
from eachother. heh heh
[09:14] Vanessa Cannoli: so if sex can be satisfying then I
think any form of play can have a strong effect using the tools you mentioned,
Cyan
[09:15] Vanessa Cannoli: lol wombi
[09:16] Vanessa Cannoli: people can get involved in things
they can't do in First Life here.....and that's anything one can think of and
tools are available to make it as "real" as possible
[09:16] Vanessa Cannoli: it's why I don't like doing
uh....things I've heard of....with just text.
This is a visual medium, and the visualization WITH the words makes it a
lot more real
[09:17] Vanessa Cannoli: but just visual is porn and boring
too
[09:17] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): I would agree somewhat however words can be powerful
[09:17] Vanessa Cannoli: I could watch Pornhub if I want
that
[09:17] Vanessa Cannoli: not that I would!
[09:17] Vanessa Cannoli: oh yes
[09:18] Johan Dark (wjohanw): Lucky you! I live in FL we don't have that access
without giving our "Free State of FL" Government our ID
[09:18] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): I have engaged with one or
two people that had a gift for words, and the visuals become irrelevant
[09:18] Vanessa Cannoli: sure
[09:18] Vanessa Cannoli: I see the visual as more augmenting
than necessary
[09:18] Vanessa Cannoli: and everyone is different
[09:19] Vanessa Cannoli: Thanks Cyan! ♥
[09:22] Vanessa Cannoli: Sydney you are up please!
[09:22] Sydney ღ Dark (badvudo): *looks back over her
shoulder to her Master before talking*
The tattoo and piercing Sire did initially made me very nervous. I do not like needles at all ... never. Interns had to hold me down one time for a
shot. My mother was devastated. But I knew Sire cared for me and would be
there. I fully trust him ... that made
the roleplay interesting if not exciting and the piercing had meaning for both
of us showing I was his. Would I do any
of this with someone else ... no.
[09:23] Sydney ღ Dark (badvudo): extreme for me is
cutting and blood but it is hard to say the things I enjoyed in the far past
are extreme. Wax play mixed with ice was
a favorite. There was a time I had the
careful use of fire in little areas. The
light use of electro .. nothing too stingy/shocking. SL is a little harder to "feel"
what this type of play provides but creative dialog can make the mind imagine
how it would feel. Having it done in RL
does help to know the feel in SL.#
[09:24] Vanessa Cannoli: Agreed on that Sydney!
[09:24] Cee (purringfox.mcmillan): Having had things done in
real can have a huge difference in playing inworld
[09:24] Vanessa Cannoli: being able to experience these
things in First Life made SL a lot better....maybe that's why we find sex
satisfying here as know "how it feels" heh heh
[09:25] Cee (purringfox.mcmillan): I reached for mouse and
hit enter
[09:25] Vanessa Cannoli: and I'm glad you and your Master
have such a close relationship that you could experience those things with him,
Sydney!
[09:25] Vanessa Cannoli: no worries Cee!
[09:27] Vanessa Cannoli: and it works as you seem to have
been responding to Sydney?
[09:29] Cee (purringfox.mcmillan): Having things done in
real can have a huge impact on what you can imagine but I would also like to
point out that some things not looked at as extreme can be extremely dangerous
in real such as shibari. I have seen permanent nerve damage cause by poor
rigging, in this case playing in SL is a safer place to practice it. #
[09:30] Vanessa Cannoli: rigging is lovely to watch but yeah
it can cause damage...then again anything can if done wrong
[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli: I don't have patience for rigging
anyway lol...lovely to watch but I wanna get to the hot party action when I'm
in a scene!
[09:31] Cee (purringfox.mcmillan): me too
[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli: thanks Cee and *reaches over and
gives Sydney's hand a squeeze* thank you lovely!
[09:32] Vanessa Cannoli: good comments!
[09:32] Sydney ღ Dark (badvudo): *smiles shyly to
Mistress Vanni*
[09:33] Vanessa Cannoli smiles and winks back
[09:35] Vanessa Cannoli: Cyan we go back to you then!
[09:37] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): a thought occurs to me that
whie SL does indeed remove a lot of the risk physically, I think it is
important to consider the emotonal state of someone as well. It is hard, if not impossible to tell what a
person online is actually doing in RL, much less being able to help or prevent
them from doing it. I have personally
had a situation where the person I engaged with showed signs of real issues so
I cut off the play. Nothing I could do
to help them, but I was not going to contribute to it.
[09:37] Vanessa Cannoli: Very true!
[09:37] Vanessa Cannoli: no
[09:37] Vanessa Cannoli: VERY VERY TRUE
[09:37] Kat Pugilist (katrina.pugilist) is offline.
[09:38] Vanessa Cannoli: unless one is caming or voicing
with the other, what's going on there is impossible to truly know
[09:39] Vanessa Cannoli: when I first play with a person in
First Life, we always start small...no major implements or scene
[09:39] Vanessa Cannoli: then as trust builds move up
[09:39] Vanessa Cannoli: I sort of keep the same thing here
[09:39] Vanessa Cannoli: and I think Cyan that might help to
alleviate some of that concern we all should have
[09:40] Vanessa Cannoli: if they respond oddly in a small
scene, like some spanking, it's prob a clear sign to not go further
[09:40] Vanessa Cannoli: but we can never know for sure, we
just have to be as responsible as we can
[09:40] Vanessa Cannoli: that's a super important point Cyan
and I am so glad you brought it up
[09:41] Vanessa Cannoli: Thank you!
[09:41] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08) smiles
[09:44] Vanessa Cannoli: We'll call it a wrap for
today. thanks for all your
participation!
[09:45] Vanessa Cannoli: back in two weeks to talk about
Domination!
[09:45] Johan Dark (wjohanw): Thank you Vanni! Thank you everyone :)
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