H is for Humiliation! -- June 28, 2026

 [08:38] Vanessa Cannoli: OK I think we are it for today so let's start up

[08:38] Vanessa Cannoli: Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

[08:38] Vanessa Cannoli: Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

[08:39] Vanessa Cannoli: We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

[08:39] Vanessa Cannoli: If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

[08:39] Vanessa Cannoli: Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

[08:40] Vanessa Cannoli: The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

[08:40] Vanessa Cannoli: With that out of the way, we'll begin.

[08:40] Vanessa Cannoli: As usual I have some exposition to start with

[08:40] Vanessa Cannoli: as I yammer a bit feel free to put a C or a Q in the queue

[08:41] Vanessa Cannoli: ok here we go!

[08:41] Vanessa Cannoli: Over the past few weeks we have been going over the BDSM acronym

[08:41] Vanessa Cannoli: we finished B/D and went into S/M.  The last four weeks we have talked about general ideas of Sado-Masochism.

[08:41] Vanessa Cannoli: This week we start more specific kinds of discussions, in this case, Humiliation play.

[08:42] Vanessa Cannoli: Some people find humiliation puzzling -- why would people *want* to be humiliated?  What kind of kick do they get out of it?  Some find it horribly offensive.

[08:42] Vanessa Cannoli: The important thing is ... here at Xaara, as long as things fall in to SSC kinds of activities, then what people do is their biz.  We can not like it, we can say to ourselves "I'd never do that" but we're not going to judge it here.

[08:43] Vanessa Cannoli: When we think of "humiliation" we usually think of a bottom or sub being trampled on, their Dom  or Top telling them they are worthless shit, doing Golden or Roman Showers on them.

[08:43] Vanessa Cannoli: Just because that was my Friday night fun...don't judge me.

[08:43] Vanessa Cannoli: :P

[08:44] Vanessa Cannoli: ♫ rimshot ♫

[08:44] Jeannie (jeannefrank) grins

[08:44] Vanessa Cannoli: But in all honesty, more of us do very subtle forms of humiliation than we think, and people that enjoy this kind of kink are not "strange", they have their kink and are enjoying it with people who share it.  It's all good and yummy!

[08:45] Vanessa Cannoli: Let's use a subtle example here:  how many subs here enjoy to be leashed, and how many of our Dominants enjoy putting an S-Type on a leash?

[08:45] Vanessa Cannoli raises both hands being a switch

[08:45] Johan Dark (wjohanw): *raises hand and tugs Sydney's hair with his free hand*

[08:45] NinaLuciani (ninaconti): i love to be leashed

[08:45] Jeannie (jeannefrank): raises hand

[08:45] SierraMysst joisn Vanessa waving two hands

[08:46] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08) smiles and rases hand, loves to use a leash on a sub

[08:46] Georges (nobutnoif): rises one hand to Miss Vanessa

[08:46] Vanessa Cannoli hums "please re-leash me, never let me go...."

[08:46] SierraMysst laughs

[08:46] Georges (nobutnoif): smiles

[08:46] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): yes leashes to me aren't humiliating, they are comforting :D

[08:46] Rhonda Bachem (vvranaavv) raises my hand after catching up

[08:46] Vanessa Cannoli: So most of us enjoy either doing something we do to an animal, or being leashed like a dog or what not...but that's not how we usually *think* of it.

[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli: But if we walked around in polite, vanilla society with a person on a leash or on a leash ourselves, we would be stared at, comments would be made and shock would be real.

[08:47] Vanessa Cannoli: And the feeling of connection that is made via a leash is also a form of external "look at my sub on my leash, they are mine" or "I belong to my Dom , they have me leashed."

[08:48] Vanessa Cannoli: Right??

[08:48] SierraMysst mutters, "You should see the  fngers that have been pointed at me when I leashed my sub"

[08:48] Vanessa Cannoli: I can imagine Sierra!

[08:48] Vanessa Cannoli: So we get a kick out of something that is simple in form but meaningful as it's a symbol of power..and it's also putting the person *on* the leash in their place.  It's a symbol of power exchange.

[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli: Before we go to comments I want to discuss quickly three kinds of humiliation play.

[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli: The first kind is what termed "Status Humiliation".

[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli: This is some kind of activity where the Bottom/Sub is moved down the hierarchy to be sure they, and everyone around knows, that the target is under the authority and rule of the Top/Dominant.

[08:49] Vanessa Cannoli: Leashing is a perfect but fairly low key example of this.

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli: Subbies and switches, you know what I mean when a Dominant puts us "where we belong"....

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli: Even public commands, "do this, kneel in this position, take your clothes off, eat that banana upside down" are all examples of that power exchange done in public.

[08:50] Vanessa Cannoli: It can be done in public orders like "walk two steps behind me" or "kneel at the Pier Bar and say nothing until I order you to do so."

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli: All those are emblems of the power exchange and to make the S-type feel the power of the Dominant.  And what a thrill it gives the object of the power! ♥

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli wonders how many are fanning themselves.....

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli: :P

[08:51] Vanessa Cannoli: The second kind of humiliation play is Object Humiliation.  This is when the bottom/sub is turned into some form of object or perhaps an animal.

[08:52] Vanessa Cannoli: Petplay, PonyPlay and the like are examples.

[08:52] SierraMysst is just squirming on her towel

[08:52] Vanessa Cannoli: They create a "depersonalization" of the S-Type.

[08:52] Vanessa Cannoli: A person can also be turned into an object.  Making a sub into a footrest is a pretty classic example.

[08:52] Vanessa Cannoli: At a RL party I went to years ago at a Dom's apartment, he had his girl turned into a lamp.

[08:53] Vanessa Cannoli: She was in her bra and panties with a lampshade on her head and was holding one of those low wattage Ikea lights on a cord

[08:53] Vanessa Cannoli: He gave her a break every ten or so minutes to move around, drink, use the restroom and stretch, and then she was back in the corner being a lamp.

[08:53] Vanessa Cannoli: It was quite a "bright idea!"

[08:53] SierraMysst mutters, "I would have made her be naked"

[08:53] Vanessa Cannoli: ♫ rimshot ♫

[08:53] SierraMysst groans

[08:54] Vanessa Cannoli: I think as it was her first time as a lamp they agreed her undies.

[08:54] Vanessa Cannoli: believe me she was ultra sexy

[08:54] Vanessa Cannoli: and we all complimented her for her behavior

[08:54] Vanessa Cannoli: which gave her a huge grin!

[08:54] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): aw that's awesome

[08:54] Vanessa Cannoli: it was WATT she wanted!

[08:54] Vanessa Cannoli: ♫ rimshot ♫

[08:54] Vanessa Cannoli: sorry sorry

[08:55] SierraMysst: A.. umm.. "Bright Smile" .. so to speak

[08:55] Vanessa Cannoli grins

[08:55] Vanessa Cannoli: The third kind of humiliation play is the most dicey one.  Emotional Humiliation.  This is where the Top/Dominant does use some kind of name calling, or humiliating acts, that are *****NEGOTIATED***** with the sub.

[08:55] Vanessa Cannoli: Note the big word there:  Negotiated!!!!!

[08:55] Vanessa Cannoli: For example, in a scene where I am the bottom, I'm quite happy to be called "Bitch" "whore" or have certain degrading things done to me that have been *NEGOTIATED* beforehand.

[08:56] Vanessa Cannoli takes away the pencils from the Dom/mes in the room who might have their own "bright ideas" after my admission....

[08:56] Vanessa Cannoli: ;)

[08:56] Vanessa Cannoli: OUT of that, if someone calls me "whore" or bitch where it is not negotiated, they're gonna find out what a half Sicilian, half Brazilian woman does to show her...ire.

[08:56] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): heard on that Vanessa

[08:56] Vanessa Cannoli: Like the guy at a Flogging Molly concert that grabbed me while really drunk, and I punched him right in the face and he fell into his buddies who laughed at him.

[08:57] Johan Dark (wjohanw): There fore the grace of god - he went :)

[08:57] Vanessa Cannoli: On the way out of the concert, a security guard came up to me and said "I saw him grab you and was about to eject him, but you handled it well!" lol

[08:58] Vanessa Cannoli: which would never happen if a guy punched a guy

[08:58] Vanessa Cannoli: but a girl punching a guy in the face...I guess amusing!

[08:58] Vanessa Cannoli: anyway I digress

[08:58] Vanessa Cannoli: All that said, with negotiation, Emotional Humiliation can be a fun thing for the Dominant and sub with proper care and control.  But NEVER do this minus a lot of negotiation, understanding and checking in.

[08:59] Vanessa Cannoli: ): And during aftercare talk about it, see how it went and modify the next time, if there is one.

[08:59] Vanessa Cannoli: Ok that's my discourse on this.

[08:59] Vanessa Cannoli: We now throw it open to the August Assembly...do Y/you enjoy Humiliation play?  Avoid it like the plague?  If Y/you do it, how is it kept SSC?  Have Y/you seen good and/or bad examples of this?

[08:59] Vanessa Cannoli: We'll start with Sierra, please toss in Cs and Qs as you wish!

[09:02] SierraMysst: Well, my comment was specifically about 'status'. And yes, a leash is a very common and very effective means of establishing 'the order'.. I have found that selecting the subs wardrobe can be JUST as effective  Choosing my subs outfits and insuring they are scanty and revealing definitely reminds her of her place. #

[09:02] Vanessa Cannoli: Yes!!!!

[09:02] Vanessa Cannoli: Some subs use those websites that have all their outfits in them and the Dom/me can go on the page and select what they will wear anytime the Dom/me wants

[09:03] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): yes the Wardrobe

[09:03] Vanessa Cannoli: Yes

[09:03] Vanessa Cannoli: it's really cool for the sub that wants total control of their look given to their Dominant

[09:04] Vanessa Cannoli: Others like to simply be told "wear this or that and that hair"

[09:05] Vanessa Cannoli: Thanks for that comment and bringing up wardrobe...a fun way to connect to status.

[09:05] Vanessa Cannoli: We go to wombaticus!

[09:06] Vanessa Cannoli: who has a question

[09:06] wombaticus: How would that work in my situation? The "changed into an animal", situation. I was "changed" to a horse many years ago. lol

[09:07] Vanessa Cannoli: Well that's just one option....does anyone have an idea of how wombaticus could get into a different form of object play of some sort?  Don't C, just answer please.

[09:08] Jeannie (jeannefrank): A Dominant could order him to change to a different animal.

[09:08] Vanessa Cannoli: there you go!

[09:08] SierraMysst: There's always "Bibbity Bobbity BOO.. Poof you're a unicorn and I'm using that horn as my dildo?"

[09:08] Vanessa Cannoli: heh heh

[09:08] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): I think it would depend on the dynamic between you and a Dom/me.  It would depend on what you find humiliating.  For axample, are you a stallion?  then maybe being treated as a draft horse...

[09:08] Vanessa Cannoli: any form of consensual play is great!

[09:08] Vanessa Cannoli: yes!

[09:09] Johan Dark (wjohanw): Good question!   It 'may' or 'may not' work in your situation,  being a Horse is something you enjoy and don't find taboo or humiliating. But, for some the idea of taking a Human Person, and stripping them naked, binding them... putting them into a horse tail, a collar/bit'lead/gag,   telling them "Ponies don't talk!" and making them behave as if they are animal completely, can be humiliating in different forms.    ::nods:: To Cyan,  Or several times you've brought up your Halter.. If someone asked you in private for consent to use your halter and lead you around, and you enjoyed being led by them because its outside your normal 'freedom' it could be considered Humiliation play.

[09:09] Vanessa Cannoli: oooo

[09:09] SierraMysst: And there in lies the secret.. CONSENTUAL. .I mean, i can probably come up with a lot of ideas. but, what would wombaticus CONSENT to is the question.. hence... that big word.. "NEGOTIATION"

[09:10] Vanessa Cannoli: 100% Sierra

[09:10] wombaticus: Ok. I DO enjoy being led by halter, going to "eexcersie, etc. lol

[09:10] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08) nods

[09:10] SierraMysst: Have him draw my Surry (with the fringe on the top)

[09:11] wombaticus: And I am ridable, so my #1 rider can control my movements, so.

[09:11] Vanessa Cannoli: Or...as you are comfortable as a horse, just turn it around and be ordered to be a human again for some period of time

[09:11] Vanessa Cannoli: that would be the 'objectification'

[09:11] SierraMysst: Lots of pink ribbons in his mane, a bit rainbow bow around his tail.....

[09:11] wombaticus: AH! THAT is a different concept. lol

[09:11] wombaticus: Ok. That answers my question, then. Thank you. #

[09:12] SylviaAurelia: I know someone who enjoys roleplaying the frustration of being a human who has been turned into a chicken and unable to speak and having people just treat them exactly like a chicken, feed them corn, put them in a coop, where the pretext is the human does not even know the chicken is a human.

[09:12] Vanessa Cannoli: Yes Sylvia, that is a clear form of object/animal humiliation (not that we want to humiliate animals of course)

[09:12] Johan Dark (wjohanw): I was going to tell them they could go back to being human, but have you seen the price of Egg's lately?

[09:12] Vanessa Cannoli: lol

[09:12] SierraMysst: LOL

[09:12] Jeannie (jeannefrank): LOL

[09:12] wombaticus dies laughing

[09:13] Vanessa Cannoli: lol

[09:13] Vanessa Cannoli: wombaticus good question and thanks for making us think!

[09:13] Vanessa Cannoli: we go to Johan please!

[09:13] Johan Dark (wjohanw): Fair warning -  incoming wall of text (Even more than normal)

[09:13] Johan Dark (wjohanw): Part of my Adept studies was on Humiliation Play, as thats not an area of Kinkdom I was/ or still am super familiar with.  I can DO it, I was a NCO in the USAFR and grew up with a Military Verbally/emotionally abusive parent (who's been making his amends and personal growth so no hard feeling there, it taught me what "NOT" to do as a Parent, and what TO do as a top for Humiliation...

 

But one of the aspects of play I did was some reading which I Highly recommend the book "Enough to Make You Blush" and "The Emotional Play Handbook" as they go over Humiliation play in many aspects that I found enlightening to me.

 

Sierra completely was in my head regarding 'clothing'  such as "You will wear no panties tonight when we go dancing"   Anything that gives that exciting-nervous-taboo feeling is Humiliation Play even if mild.

 

Another of the things they brought up I will quote from my write up rather than bore you with the entire write up "  'Its a way of knowing someone. If you break down what humiliates them, its

[09:13] Johan Dark (wjohanw):  a way of breaking down a person and really knowing them" along with "It's really intimate" and with thought about it, thats very true. Being able to humiliate someone to both/all parties satisfaction does require a more intimacy level than just service or pleasure. You have learn what makes the other person tick.  Sexy can be for sex sake of just physical pleasure, impact scenes can be just for the release of endorphins;  but a successful humiliating scene bares us to our most base core that which either we find humiliating as a recipient and hits our most primal levels, OR being willing to do something that would otherwise be considered mean/hurtful if it weren't that the recipient were a willing and consensually engaging partner who craves such "     #done

[09:15] Vanessa Cannoli: yes Johan!

[09:15] Vanessa Cannoli: See...*consensual* humiliation play is making the object/target giddy with delight, even if others see it and say "what the f**k are they doing?"

[09:16] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08) nods

[09:16] Vanessa Cannoli: At my RL club a Dom guy brought in a very shy girl, had her strip, and led her around on a collar and chain

[09:16] Vanessa Cannoli: and said "please tell her how beautiful she is and ask if you may touch her"

[09:16] Vanessa Cannoli: which we did and at first she was shy and scared...by the end of the evening she was brimming with delight

[09:17] Vanessa Cannoli: because she had self-esteem issues and this was to help her break out of her shell

[09:17] Vanessa Cannoli: Vanillas would look and say "wtf is going on?  what is he doing to her??"...but WE get it.

[09:18] Vanessa Cannoli: All that was 100% spot on Johan, and thanks for sharing from your research.

[09:18] Vanessa Cannoli: well done!

[09:18] Vanessa Cannoli: We move to Cyan please!

[09:19] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): First I agree with Johan's comments..

[09:19] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): I do like some humiliation play, as long as it is consensual.  It's a matter of finding what the sub finds humiliating.  I tend to be subtle in humiliation play,  no overt acts in public per se.   I view it more as a dynamic between my sub and I and view it more as something that is obvious to us, rather then a public demonstration.  For example, leashing is great in and of itself.  But I use an ankle leash holder for my subs.  Most who look at it think it is maybe just a different or cool leash holder...  but to my sub, it is a way of demonstrating to them that not only are you leashed, this is your place, at my feet. #

[09:20] Vanessa Cannoli: I love that!!!

[09:20] Vanessa Cannoli: is the leash on your ankle, the sub's ankle, or both?

[09:20] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): the leash runs from the subs collar to my ankle

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: nice!

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: very smexy

[09:21] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): I also have a thigh holder to run the leash to my thingh

[09:21] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): *thigh

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: cool!

[09:21] Rarden Savage (rarden85): with a hidden object you can have the leash go anywhere

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: I love the imagery there

[09:22] Vanessa Cannoli: and the meaning behind it too!

[09:22] Vanessa Cannoli: Thanks for that Cyan! ♥

[09:22] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): yes, you can hide them, but that s not the point.

[09:22] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): The sub must see it to remind them

[09:22] Rarden Savage (rarden85): i meant you can make any object into a holder, then add your narrative

[09:23] Rarden Savage (rarden85): you don't have to "find" said object

[09:23] Vanessa Cannoli: very cool!

[09:23] Vanessa Cannoli: thanks Cyan!

[09:23] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08) nods

[09:23] Vanessa Cannoli: Jolly we come to you please

[09:23] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): Thank you - here is my thought: Humiliation, Depersonalization, Degredation, and Depersonalization can be a very slippery slope. Others here have mentioned the critical need for negotiations, especially for the emotional kind... but I wanted to mention that over time, certain acts that were once humiliating may no longer be, and it is part of that growth in our individual journeys. For instance, when I was more into pup play (in RL) I didn't mind eating out of a dish....but these days, not really my thing... so understanding yourself, your limits, and what your triggers are are super important. For instance I love to be leashed...it brings me great comfort. I don't find it humiliating to be at my Master's feet...I know it's my place... so I think it's important to investigate the what and why with a type of degredation and if it fulfills something for the power exchange, why not but definitely discuss it first. #

[09:24] Vanessa Cannoli: Verry well said!

[09:24] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): thank you, :)

[09:24] Vanessa Cannoli: It is my belief that any D/s relationship is a DYNAMIC which means it changes just as you said Jolly

[09:24] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): exactly so

[09:25] Vanessa Cannoli: What was exciting can become ho-hum, what was "no way ever!" can be "wow this is fun!"

[09:25] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): smiles and nods softly

[09:25] Vanessa Cannoli: so regular communication is 100% necessary...constantly

[09:25] Vanessa Cannoli: done in a D/s framework of course

[09:25] NinaLuciani (ninaconti): all rel/ships change in time

[09:26] Vanessa Cannoli: but if a Dominant ever told me "You, girl, have no say, just do what you're told"...I'd be running, not walking, to the nearest exit.

[09:26] NinaLuciani (ninaconti): nods to Vanessa

[09:26] Vanessa Cannoli: And you're right Jolly, with Humiliation is this just as important as say impact play.

[09:26] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): perhaps even more so, due to the mental aspects

[09:26] Vanessa Cannoli: We don't just grab a hard paddle and go to town on our sub.

[09:27] Jolly Savage (sclabhai.jolly): hopefully not :)

[09:27] Vanessa Cannoli: How can we do that with their mind and emotions???

[09:27] SierraMysst: we don't?

[09:27] Vanessa Cannoli: I hope not...it's negotiated first...THEN the agreed upon paddling! ;)

[09:27] SierraMysst will have to tell Ali we have to stop that

[09:28] SierraMysst: OH.. no.. I don't do ANYTHING we haven't talked about and agreed upon limits and boundaries

[09:28] Vanessa Cannoli: After "50 Shades" came out we had to stop a number of scenes idiots did at the club...tie down their bottom and just start hitting with something willy nilly...no discussion or prep or warm up and the bottom was yelling in not a good way.

[09:29] Vanessa Cannoli: Right Sierra, if it's negotiated "I'll come home, grab the paddle and get to work" and everyone knows what's up....paddle away!

[09:30] Vanessa Cannoli: Jolly thanks for that great contribution!

[09:30] Vanessa Cannoli: Back to Sierra please

[09:30] SierraMysst: I wanted to bring up a form of humiliation play I didn't see mentioned. I'm not sure what to call it but, I have in the past, trained my subs to orgasm on command and that command is usually the end of a countdown. I start at 5 and count down to 1 and when I say "ONE" they would orgasm. Didn't matter where we were. Most often at a restaurant or theater. They were allowed to TRY to keep as quiet as possible, but, more often than not, they weren't very quiet. #

[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli: Oh yes!

[09:31] SierraMysst: Spirits, I sound like such a BITCH

[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli: Orgasm training!!

[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli: No one here would ever do that!  *giggles*

[09:31] SierraMysst laughs

[09:31] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08) smiles, knowing Sierra is not the only one to practice this...

[09:31] Vanessa Cannoli: Yes that's definitely a form of humiliation play

[09:32] Vanessa Cannoli wonders how many IMs Sierra is getting right now :P

[09:32] wombaticus: Not from this horse! lol

[09:33] SierraMysst is focussed on this discussion. IMs be damned

[09:33] Vanessa Cannoli: Yes that's a great form of play, thanks for that one Sierra! ♥

[09:33] Vanessa Cannoli: Back to Cyan please!

[09:34] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): thank you

[09:34] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): Going back to Jolly's comment I agree.  I think communication is the key.  My one sub currently desires to give up all control to be treated as a slave..  We talk about what this means and how we play.  But as the domme, i feel it is on me to monitor her, to make sure she is ok.  I expect and encourage her to speak up if something is not ok.  As you say, relationships and likes/dislikes change.  I always insist on aftercare and checking on my subs... #

[09:34] Vanessa Cannoli: Yes yes yes

[09:34] Vanessa Cannoli: 100%

[09:34] Vanessa Cannoli: What we call "Porch Time" around here

[09:35] Vanessa Cannoli: "Tell me what's' really going on.  No holding back, we will discuss everything,."

[09:35] Vanessa Cannoli: Cyan you are doing it 100% right

[09:36] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): I think it is important to the domme as well.. it can be hard to treat someone in this manner as well

[09:37] Vanessa Cannoli: Yes, that's a really good point

[09:37] Vanessa Cannoli: Like Johan said...he can *do* it but that doesn't mean he's really *into* it.  So he has to be taken into consideration as well -- mental and emotional health.  Same for you, Cyan.

[09:38] Vanessa Cannoli: And again that's any aspect of what we do

[09:38] Vanessa Cannoli: if you had asked me 15 years ago "would you see yourself tying people up and beating on them, or being tied up and spanked yourself" I'd have responded "You're crazy"

[09:38] Vanessa Cannoli: Now....*ahem*

[09:39] Vanessa Cannoli: So same with this kind of mental/emotional play, communication has to go both ways.

[09:40] Emerald Ceinder (emerald.celestia) is offline.

[09:40] Vanessa Cannoli: Cyan thanks for bringing that up, very important!!

[09:40] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08) nods

[09:41] Vanessa Cannoli: any further comments or questions on humiliation play?

[09:41] Exa Bratastic (exa.starchild) is offline.

[09:41] Rhonda Bachem (vvranaavv) nods, "None here."

[09:44] Vanessa Cannoli: ok thank youj all for being here and participating!

[09:44] NinaLuciani (ninaconti): 🫶

[09:44] Cyan d'Azure (cyan08): Thanks E/everyone.  And Thanks Vanni for a great discussion  :)

[09:44] Vanessa Cannoli: in two weeks we'll have another topic in S/M before we move to D/s!