Behavior Modification -- May 3, 2026

 [15:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[15:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok I do have a bit of exposition as usual

 

[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so as thoughts come up just drop a C or a Q in the queue and then we'll start with your comments

 

[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): This week is Discipline, the second part of the B/D pair of BDSM

 

[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Discipline is the act of some kind of punishment or correction of a person.

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Parents instill discipline in their kids via punishments of types for wrongdoing.  And hopefully via positive reinforcement for a job well done.

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We have talked about this a few times over the years, but in the interest of clarity and for newer folks, we have two ways to look at this.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): In the behavioral sciences, we talk about reinforcement and punishment.  We want to reinforce desired behaviors and punish bad behaviors to keep them from happening.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Punishment is a tool in a D/s relationship for the breaking of a rule that has been negotiated between the Dominant and the submissive.  Any rule within the agreed upon limits of the relationship needs to be obeyed, so a punishment is to stop a behavior that is not desired.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): [15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If we really need to punish any person....wayward child, naughty sub...then the punishment needs to have three characteristics:

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): First it must be swift, done as close as possible in time to the infraction.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Or it loses connection from act to punishment.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Second it must be certain, it WILL happen, or the punisher (not the comic book character) will look weak in the eyes of the person and so not an authority figure.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And third, it must be Rational, meaning the level of punishment is tied to the infraction.  Insane punishments for light infractions just breed contempt.  Light punishments for serious infractions teach nothing.

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "You killed AGAIN Miss Cannoli?  That's another $100 fine for you!"  I'd be droppin' Franklins like candy!

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Kidding of course...mostly :P

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good Doms will reinforce positive things in their charges, and use punishment sparingly but WILL do it if/when necessary.

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Reinforcement is doing something the person likes or taking away something they don't like when they do the desires behavior.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Keep your room clean and you get ice cream"

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Kneel when I tell you and you get spanked" (well...that works for subs anyway lol)

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Do what I tell you and we'll have your lazy sister do the mopping rather than you"

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): that's all reinforcement

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What we not talk about today is what we lovingly call "funishment"...that's the topic in two weeks

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but the idea with "funishment" is really more of a negotiated RP where the sub "appears" to break a rule and then the BDSM scene starts....again, that's the topic for next time

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): today we'll stick with behavior modification

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So the questions for today are:  Do you use (or have used on you) some form of behavior modification?  Is punishment a real thing in SL?  How do we do it?  Is reinforcement better than punishment?

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Or anything around the topic of behavior mod, what it is, and how we do it.

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok that's my exposition...what do you think?

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Johan when you are ready please!

 

[15:50] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): ( Will take a while to type)

 

[15:54] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): So, Punishment is something I actually have a difficult time with. I'm a parent of a Teenager (who actually is a damn good kid so I've not had to actually 'punish' him in 10 years.. Mostly its 'talking to' )

but I know in a D/s and BDSM perspective sometimes a punishment is NEEDED for the submissives sake, to know that the Dominant DOES in fact care. Its a odd balance between 'how do I punish - so its meaningful, but not overbearing like you said, and also reinforce the good behaviors (that I am great at.)

 

Thankfully I also have two great submissives, one slightly bratty but only playfully so.  We at times have had to 'create' situations for 'funishment' because she also is a masochist so she likes the pain of cropping/spanking/paddling, etc.

 

So I find if I am doing something for Punishment sake vs. reinforcement sake, its along the lines of "You aren't allowed to do X that I know you enjoy for until"  or what I haven't had to use yet "I want you to write me a NC as to WHY you thought it isn't ok to do...."   / Done

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's good!

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and honestly that is a form of punishment, as the person in question prob doesn't *like* having to write such a card,  Punishment is the opposite of reinforcement, where something disliked is *added* to alter behavior.

 

[15:56] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *looks back at Master remembering his fiendish ways of punishment*

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "I don't want to write a card where I spell out my misbehavior and why.  I won't do that again."

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also that's rational punishment, Johan, as it ties the behavior closely to the issue.

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So that was all very well said!  Thank you!

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we move to Scarlet please

 

[16:00] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): For me, rewarding my good behavior works better than punishing my bad behavior. As long as the rules make sense to me and are clear, I do my best not to act out against them. on the rare occasions I step out of line a quick chastisement is usually enough for me to realize i messed up and correct my behavior. #

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Right!

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and in a good relationship usually all that would be required is a "hey, I didn't like that, let's talk about it."

 

[16:01] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): yes, exactly

 

[16:01] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Or an apltly timed "Raises his eyebrow"

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee

 

[16:02] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *hides a smile*

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): my eyebrows work well as they're so perfectly arched :P

 

[16:02] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): <3

 

[16:02] IronWolf (IronWolf Skydancer): :-)

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You have a good heart Scarlet and I know that you'd never *knowingly* misbehave.  So that's why just a chat is enough.

 

[16:03] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria):   nods

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): IMO punishment needs to be left for acts that keep repeating.

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said thanks Scarlet!

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Liss with a question

 

[16:04] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): for both Dominants and submissives - do you think it is better to have a formal set of agreed rules or more general guidelines to behaviour?

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): go ahead and answer, do NOT add a C

 

[16:05] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): So..... yes :)

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or we'll have an ocean of Cs at the bottom

 

[16:05] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): general guideline

 

[16:05] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): @Liss Master and I have a formal set of rules... it is our Negotiations document in Google that we refer to and keep up to date. It includes my limits, rules and structures for me ect. There is also a calendar on the fridge where I keep him up to date on what I am doing. In addition to our linked google calendar so he doesn’t worry about me. Granted, we are a RL couple so maybe this makes more sense for us.

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): wow amazing Rune!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I hope you got that notarized :P

 

[16:06] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): haha!

 

[16:06] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): There should be both, a formal set of agreed rules done during negotiations, but also there will be things that come up that you don't consider but go "Ok, while that wasn't against the rules, we BOTH know that throwing a pie in Chew's face is disrespectful to both ME and Chew.  Chew because of whom he is and being an autonomous person who didn't consent to having a pie thrown in his face, ME because you represent ME as your Dominant."       and yes, 100% with Rune, have it written down.. Have it updated and regularly touch base with during 'porch talks' .

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   hands Johan a "Xaara Star" ;)

 

[16:07] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): I think a good mix of the two works best. Specific rules for the really important things, and general guidelines for things of lesser import. For instance, How to address the Dominant when in certain situations would be a specific rule, while at home things could be more relaxed

 

[16:07] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *Passes his star to Scarlet as well*

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well said Scarlet

 

[16:08] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): thank you

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): D/s involves some aspect of formality, it's not "vanilla"

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but I think each D/s relationship is different and the people involved have to decide *how* formal to make it

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some people write up whole contracts on what will be done, what's expected and for how long

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): others are just "we'll make it up as we go along"

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so it's up to you and who you are with

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good question, Liss and good answers!

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We go to Benedetta please!

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): with a question

 

[16:10]  (Benedetta en>en): thank you

 

[16:10] Benedetta (cordediseta Rosea): My question is for everyone...what is our understanding of punishment? I am punished if I accidentally make a mistake. How does the Dominant feel about punishing the submissive? Does he feel metaphorically involved in this punishment, or does he view it with detachment? What does punishing the submissive feel? Does he metabolize the punishment he is inflicting in the same way as the submissive?

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): oooo lots of thought there

 

[16:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): go ahead and answer some or all of that as you will...again no Cs please

 

[16:12] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): for me, i think just once punished mine sub, i felt

 

[16:13] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): involved, was really angry with her, so it was not a distant thing

 

[16:13] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): sorry for mine bad english

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): no worries!

 

[16:13]  (Benedetta it>en): thanks for the reply

 

[16:14] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): I wear Master’s collar in RL. Punishment is rare but usually means he will “take space” for a while so he can think and isn’t angry because we have an agreement that he will never punish out of anger. Physical punishment and even “funishment” is rare because I have severe cervical stenosis and other back problems that limit what we can do, but a chastisement makes me feel… awful anyway.

 

[16:14] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): verbal* chastisement

 

[16:14] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Great question Benedetta,   to quote my father "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you"  Though as a kid I never really understood that. But, most caring Dominants don't WANT to punish a loving submissive.   As a Sadist we may want to hurt them - but only insofar as what they want to be hurt in return to meet both needs.       But, that isn't for punishment sake, thats for the S/M part of the BDSM acronym.       I try to avoid 'feeling' it by making sure when I DO have to punish someone, I'm not punishing them because I am angry.  I am punishing them to correct a behavior or action so that it won't be repeated again.        Now, would I punish for a mistake or accident? No.   I wouldn't.. A discussion and talk is probably all that is necessary for that. Accidents are human.

 

[16:14] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): I have rarely been punished as a sub, I must behave worse, but would want my Dominant to feel really involved. I am learning the other end of a leash which is why I am interested in how Dominants do feel.

 

[16:16]  (Benedetta it>en): thanks everyone for the replies

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I can tell you that as I'm a switch, the most serious "punishment" I ever received was from a Mistress who was upset with me over "playing" with a gag (that green garbled speak in SL).  She IMed and said "I'm disappointed in this behavior.  You know better."

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I apologized, stopped that immediately and NEVER did it again.  And felt like shit for a week.

 

[16:17] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Yes, the dreaded "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed"   cuts like a knife

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and she had every right to say that

 

[16:17] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): thats what hurts me the most, knowing that ive disappointed the Dominant im with

 

[16:17] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nods nods

 

[16:18] IronWolf (IronWolf Skydancer): whispers...great chat  being called away

 

[16:18] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): very painful

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): talk about behavior mod!

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): good question Benedetta and good replies!

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And now Valmont has a question

 

[16:19] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): yes...this is mine first encounter here in xaara, so i feel a little newbie..is mine impression or..

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): everyone is welcome to participate!

 

[16:20] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): all this discussion make more sense toward a RL BDSM relationship more then one that remain here in SL ?

 

[16:20] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): or simply mine standard are lighter ?^^ so to say

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): the First vs Second Life "leap" is often a topic

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): especially with behavior mod

 

[16:21] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so what do y'all think?  go ahead and give any answer you like

 

[16:21] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): i mean, have protocols..in a world where you can meet sometime and sometimes not...

 

[16:21] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): itsnt too restrictive ?

 

[16:21] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): stop ^^

 

[16:23]  (Benedetta it>en): I think and forgive the aragon it's like saying... do you love mum or dad more?... I think we're talking about concepts and behaviors and not so much about places... it's a lifestyle that clearly differs in SL compared to SL but then not much... the mind can do much more than physical contact

 

[16:23]  (Benedetta en>en): #

 

[16:23] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): Master and I began in SL and very much used SL for most if not all of our D/s and BDSM for a good 6 years prior to meeting. I think its very possible to use the mental aspects as Benedette is saying for a fulfilling D/s relationship here.

 

[16:24] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Thats a good and fair question Valmont :)      So, are there some things we can do in RL that aren't the same in SL? 100%     BUT, we CAN still have some other protocols agreed upon for WHEN we are in Cyberpsace/tech space, vs. Meat Space.     My girls and I have them.  My girls greet me when they come on, we have a specific way they greet me, we have specific names, hand signals, etc.   The emotions, trust, and respect are all the same even if the physicality is different.    In some aspects its actually EASIER in SL, because in RL it would be difficult to be in a High protocol status 24/7,  but because we have independent and separate meat space lives for a good part of each day/week/month, we can be in more high protocol situations while in SL.  #done

 

[16:24] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): BDSM is sl only for me so it is the mental relationships. As a sub I like a framework of expectations on me. It guides me in making choices ,even if the choice may be to misbehave, it at least reminds me I am doing so and there are likely to be consequences. #

 

[16:25] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): ive only ever experienced D/s in SL so I cant speak to the RL side of it. However, I think the topic of behavior mod applies well to SL. It is harder for punishments to really be effective in SL. Physical punishments dont work as well here as the mental punishments and the degree of a mental punishment is harder to gauge than the degree of a physical punishment

 

[16:25] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): #

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): wow great answers y'all!

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   hands out more Xaara Stars!

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): There you go Valmont!  Plenty to think about!

 

[16:27] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): well probably the reason is i never had a so high protocol situation till now

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I prefer to call the meat world "first life" as this is all real.  We are real people here not AIs (I think...).  Yeah we are all 25 and perfect forever but we're real people at the end of the day

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so I think there is *lots* of mental and emotional crossover

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): there has to be

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): or we're automations

 

[16:27] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): so mine expectation become lighter with time

 

[16:28] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): probably still not meet someone that need this from me

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent question and answers!

 

[16:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): any other comments or questions on this topic?  we still have some time

 

[16:28] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): I won't be punished by the Master, and we're talking about modifying the actions of the Sub here, but is it possible for the Master to modify their own actions?

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'd hope so!

 

[16:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): what do you all think?

 

[16:29] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): obovously yes...if the sub have some hard limits, the master is not permitted to cross them, also if  he would like too

 

[16:30] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): if he sees those limit as too hard for him better rethink about the  relationship

 

[16:30] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): not sure if it was that was requested with the last question

 

[16:30] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): I'd assume all Dominants and submissives learn from experience so I think we all self modify to a degree. Life should be about learning.#

 

[16:30]  (Benedetta it>en): a Master who does not recognize any changes is anchored to a pole and his perspectives become like a cloud in a completely blue sky... that is, he remains alone

 

[16:30] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): I believe that a Dominant must be willing to own and modify their own actions when they make mistakes - we're all human. We all make errors. And it sets a good example model for your sub if you can live up to the expectations you set for her/him

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes to all of that!

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as a submissive, I'd  never be with a Dominant who thinks they can never admit a wrong somewhere when they clearly are

 

[16:31] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): nods and smiles

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): just like a sub that can't admit a failure is a big problem

 

[16:31] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): I hope the Master/Mistress will take time to have "porch talks" where things are discussed. What punisments/rewards were most effective, the least effective. What have you learned about yourself and your likes/dislikes in our D/s relationship. After these discussions, id hope that the Master/Mistress would take time to go over the answers presented and while staying within his/her personality and own likes/dislikes make changes to things as necessary

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yes Scarlet!

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but some people of any type can't admit they did wrong

 

[16:33] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): I've never heard of "porch talks" before.

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and that's a problem, whoeverr it is

 

[16:33] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): yes me too what does it mean : porch talks ? may i ask ?

 

[16:33] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Certainly!

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Porch Talk means "speak as equals for a while and talk about things" rather than in D/s protocol

 

[16:33] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): ok ty

 

[16:34] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): you beat me to it Miss Vanni

 

[16:34] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): oh that's great！

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee

 

[16:34] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): here could it be considered an OOC

 

[16:34] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): a prologued one

 

[16:34] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): I’ll suggest that to my next time.

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it doesn't mean they totally drop the D/s connection, but they openly speak about things

 

[16:34] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): prolongued* sorry

 

[16:34] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Its a good chance to come together monthly/quarterly/annually to say "Hey, whats the state of our union?   Are you still happy with everything? Is there anything we need to adjust/change?  Do we need to alter our limits/negotiations? "

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): bingo, Johan

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and the sub really needs to speak openly, not just "everything is fine Master/Mistress"

 

[16:36] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): nods

 

[16:36] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): Besides specific 'how is our D/s?' discussions my Master and I spend a lot of time talking and sometimes arguing on all sorts of topics. So that protocol matters

 

[16:36] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): that is the key to the porch talks, the sub must be open to and know that it is safe to politely talk about their misgivings

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): which I think both parties should do at *any* time, but having specific times as Johan said to do a "State of the Union" is also very good

 

[16:37] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): well i say again, looks to me the minimum requirement, or is no more a relationship

 

[16:37] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): I'm too blunt, so he often tells me I should look for someone else....lol

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I mean if my sub came and said "Miss I'd like to chat about X" I'd not say "wait until porch time" lol

 

[16:38] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Lol and I just tell mine "someone has their bossy pants on today"

 

[16:38] Sydney ღ Dark (Badvudo Resident): *giggles quietly*

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee

 

[16:38] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): rellatioship, for me means something where both parts have pleasure..if not..is not a relationship

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): bingo!

 

[16:39] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): When he says that, I just fall silent.

 

[16:39] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): I agree Sir Valmont, since I learned about porch talks, I ask any new dominant i am considering how they feel about them. If i get a negative response, or a "Im always right, there is no need for them" I stop considering that individual

 

[16:39] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Exactly - and it may take some time to get a Submissive to feel comfortable being 'open' during porch talks.. Sometimes they fear it being held against them, or that they'll overstep or upset their partner(s)   BUT., during initial organization and when we discuss "Papa's Rules" one of mine is "If there is a problem you have, I need to know about it. We can't fix it if we don't."

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): run not walk to the nearest exit, Scarlet

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and 100% Johan!

 

[16:40] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): yes Sir Johan, well said

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm a sociologist and I reject any notions that humans are static -- we are dynamic, we change, needs and wants change, and we need to communicate those things to each other

 

[16:41] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): and i will add, more here, where you can in any moments break the scene and fly away

 

[16:41] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): I had a dominant who took my collar away during a porch talk because he did not like what I said. That ended the relationship. It took me a long time to trust again tbh

 

[16:41] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): s dominant that not respect this basic rule

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Jesus Jenny!

 

[16:42] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): is not a dominant..

 

[16:42] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): is a poor man

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yeah another "run, not walk" situation, Rune

 

[16:42] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Sometimes its as minor as "I enjoy cuddling with you, but sometimes I want to kneel at your feet"  and while the "Papa Bear" in me LOVES cuddles,   the Dominant in me ALSO loves 'kneeling" so that is a SUPER easy fix -     once its communicated.

 

[16:42] Rune (FatedPickle Rune):   nods

 

[16:42] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): WOW! retaliation of any sort is not part of a true porch talk

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 100% Scarlet

 

[16:42] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): I'm so sorry Rune

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it's the exact opposite

 

[16:42] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): <3

 

[16:43] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): ohhh...so bad...Rune

 

[16:45] aco  ღ あこ ღ  (Aco Avon): I completely understand what you mean. Once trust is lost, it's very difficult to regain it.

 

[16:46] Scarlet Danvers (Leila Dashuria): Aco, to me that kind of response to me openly speaking my mind during an appropriate time is uncalled for and is a sign that the Dominant does not feel that He/She is right for you. In that situation, I would seriously consider leaving

 

[16:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): It almost sounds like we need to write up a class about Porch Talks for the paths Vanni :)

 

[16:46] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Or 'effective communication'

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think that would be good

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Communicative Action as we call it in Sociology ;)

 

[16:46] Rune (FatedPickle Rune):   smiles

 

[16:47] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *adds it to his every growing list of workshops he wants to write*

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Just remember it has to be in the original Klingon to be the most effective!  (Star Trek VI joke...)

 

[16:48] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): ill say again : a Dom that dont feel something is wrong, is  a Dominant that is going to loose quickly his/her submissive

 

[16:48] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): :)

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nods

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and we should wrap this up as well

 

[16:48] Rune (FatedPickle Rune): It was nice to meet you Scarlet

 

[16:48]  (Benedetta en>en): bye Scarlett

 

[16:48] Valmont (valmont Vuissent): bye Scarlett

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks for the great comments everyone, YOU are what makes this discussion so strong

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): in two weeks we'll discuss "Funishment!"

B is for Bondage! -- April 19, 2026

 [15:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[15:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[15:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received; however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[15:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[15:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So welcome, we haven't had a Klatch since February I think, partly due to people having other things to do and partly the Easter Sunday holiday.

 

[15:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but now we're back and rarin' to go!

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today we start our yearly trek through the BDSM acronym.

 

[15:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You likely know that BDSM as an acronym stands for three things:  B/D:  Bondage and Discipline, S/M:  Sadism and Masochism, and D/s:  Dominance and Submission.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our goal over these discussions is to talk out how we all see this and how these things affect us.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I want to point out that all of us are at different phases of our BDSM experience.  Some are brand new, some are like me, old timers, and many are somewhere in the middle.

 

[15:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   slams Geritol

 

[15:43] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): *schedules himself and Vanni for colonoscopies*

 

[15:43] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   looks for some ensure.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Medical BDSM!

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I consent!

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So ALL points of view are welcome, and everyone has their own views and narrative as we wind through the acronym.

 

[15:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So with that, we start with B -- B is for Bondage!

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'll spit out some exposition, and while I do or after, please put in your C or Q for a comment or question!

 

[15:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): To quote Wikipedia, which knows all, Bondage "is the practice of consensually tying, binding, or restraining a partner for erotic, aesthetic, or somatosensory stimulation. A partner may be physically restrained in a variety of ways, including the use of rope, cuffs, bondage tape, or self-adhering bandage."

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   stops to allow people to fan themselves as necessary.....

 

[15:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Bondage is often an act in and of itself, meaning that the people involved will do that as a scene in itself

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): At my First Life club, there are many scenes where a person is tied in some way, such as suspension, and that's the scene, and the act in and of itself puts the bottom into subspace.

 

[15:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sometimes the restraining is mixed with S/M acts as well such as spanking, etc, but in general the rigging or what not is the scene.

 

[15:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Watching the rigging is great, it's sexy to behold. But I don't do rigging myself, I don't have patience. I just want to beat someone silly.....or get beat maybe.... ;)

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): BUT I do use these things called "easy-offs" for restraining, they look like two hooks on each side which attach to the restraint and the bondage device....two mins max to restrain and then right to fun.

 

[15:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also with this, use of handcuffs, leg irons, arm spreaders, gags, latex body suits, hoods....detects *subspace is coming*...are possible, and MORE!  LOTS MORE!

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *ahem*

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Along with the fun comes safety.

 

[15:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's DANGEROUS to leave a person alone tied anywhere in First Life

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sure the physical aspect isn't here in SL, but in First Life, never.  Anyone in my club that ties someone and walks out of the room without getting someone to watch the bound person is never going to play there again.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The Dungeon Monitor will end the scene and release the person immediately.

 

[15:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also a person who is bound needs to be regularly checked in with to be sure they're ok.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So if you do this in First Life and are getting a cramp, or claustrophobia, or ANYTHING, ask for a change, or ask to end the scene if necessary.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And of course, if You are the Top, please be responsible, check in and be sure Your charge is ok during the whole scene.

 

[15:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So, with all that said.....two questions to the August Assembly here...

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 1) Do you enjoy Bondage, either as the bound person, or the person doing the binding?  What's the attraction in all this?

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): 2) As SL is visual and psychological, why do you think this is such a turn on here in SL?  Unless we mirror the binding at home (usually not advised) it's all what I like to call "Theater of the Mind."  But it's still sexy fun here!  Why?  What's the psychological connection in your opinion?

 

[15:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok exposition done...your turn!

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Let's hear from the Assembly why we like this!...or maybe it's not a turn on.  That's fair too

 

[15:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Lyrah when ready please

 

[15:53] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I did rope rl for years

 

[15:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and what the draw was for me, as a model, or rope bunny was the slow and meticulous care the top took to place the rope on my skin

 

[15:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): you are in close quarters

 

[15:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): your can feel their breath on you

 

[15:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): they continuously whisper to you to make sure that you are alright

 

[15:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): it is very intimate

 

[15:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I love it!

 

[15:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and then once you are bound, they play

 

[15:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and it's a rush!

 

[15:55] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I love it to pieces!!!

 

[15:55] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): done.  Thank you.

 

[15:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Follow up, Lyrah -- what would you say is the *biggest* thrill of it all...the lack of moving, the intimate feeling, the inability to move if they spank you or more....or something else...or all of it? ;)

 

[15:56] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): the intimacy and close up attention as they tie me

 

[15:56] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): but I also love being taken while immobile

 

[15:56] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): struggling to touch them when it's out of my control

 

[15:56] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): it's a high!

 

[15:56] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): rawr!

 

[15:56] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): smiles

 

[15:56] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): haha done

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): You mean...being taken to McDonalds of course..."The bound girl will have a #4, and don't ask how she'll be eating it..." ;)

 

[15:57] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): haha

 

[15:57] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I'll have fries with that!

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): *giggles*

 

[15:57] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So you want that...SUPERSIZED Lyrah? ;)

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♫ rimshot ♫

 

[15:58] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): it's the quality, not the quantity, Miss.

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Indeed

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sorry this isn't stand up routines with Vanni...allegedly

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Lyrah that was a great start up!

 

[15:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Liss you are up please!

 

[15:58] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): my pleasure Miss

 

[15:58] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): I am purely into bondage in sl, maybe sadly, maybe not. Here for me I have a strong sexual response to bondage but realise that for others it brings quite different emotions. I wonder what the emotions are for various people, subs and Dominants. Maybe this repeats Miss Vanessa's question to Lyrah :) #

 

[15:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I think as Lyrah said, it's very intimate and close, it plays into that sexual closeness.

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Also remember, for a lot of people, bedroom sex games are where they first dabble in BDSM....tie up and get at it....

 

[16:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so I think there is a strong sexual connection, Liss

 

[16:00] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): But for some there is no or very little sexual involvement?

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Sure

 

[16:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it depends on the person

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Some people find it odd when I say that a LOT of BDSM has no sexual aspect to it.  At the RL club I've never had any sex with any person (intercourse is what I mean)

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I like to beat people silly and then snuggle after while they float in subspace

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yummy!

 

[16:02] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   looks for the sign up sheet.

 

[16:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lolol

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Liss that was a great comment thank you!

 

[16:03] Ɓrittaŋɣ ღ Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Brittany Serenade):   holds out the notepad

 

[16:03] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): hahaha!

 

[16:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Oddly...Wynter you're up!!

 

[16:03] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra):   chuckles

 

[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): I do enjoy bondage to a degree, suspension can be very enjoyable and meditative even in the right situation. It's also very useful (for me at least) when combined with SM because squirming is far less effective.. and a sadist might enjoy watching the submissive/bottom struggle against the restraints as their getting paddled or some similar implement is being used.(more)

 

[16:03] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): As far as doing bondage to another, I enjoy the restrictions and helplessness imposed upon them for a pre-negotiated time, it feeds my sadism to a degree and I can appreciate the different ways in which a body can be contorted and restrained. That helplessness can also translate well into SL with the proper RLV restrictions active. So it can help emphasize the power exchange when a submissive can't touch anything because their hands are tied behind their back.. things like that.#

 

[16:04] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): rubs her hands together in agreement

 

[16:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Well now...uh.....what were you saying  *dreamy look slowly fades*

 

[16:05] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra):   nods

 

[16:05] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   smiles.

 

[16:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's all really so well said Wynter!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'm old enough to remember when RLV first came out *guzzles more Geritol*....I thought it was sort of needless.  "I'll just do what you say, why do we need that?"

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But I found that in play here it really does give life to Bondage play

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): What will happen next?  no idea!

 

[16:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Suddenly toss on a rack or something

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So 100% agree -- the helplessness is key and RLV can help to make it real

 

[16:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks for that Wynter, your knowledge is always on key and welcome

 

[16:08] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): A pleasure, Vanni.

 

[16:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And we move to the other Serenade...Britt please!

 

[16:08] Ɓrittaŋɣ ღ Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Brittany Serenade): When I was active in rl rope play the tempo very much suited me. The element of breath and anticipation, some mystery and uncertainty about what was next, the experimentation with new knots, and the compliant willingness on the part of my submissive to experience something new which we weren't sure exactly how that would turn out.

 

[16:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): oooo yesssssss

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): SL is "Theater of the Mind" so part of what we do here involves visualization.  But the brain is also the biggest sex organ.

 

[16:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So seeing it and the words can elicit a very similar  response to what is done in First Life.

 

 

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Britt, thanks for that comment.....I totally agree with how rigging is so sexy and we can make it very deep here indeed.

[16:12] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Rarden you are up please

 

[16:13] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): For me i enjoy various forms of bondage and binding especially rope.  The attraction for me is a few things including creating something with the materials, creating art if you will with rope and a submissive.  I enjoy the closeness, the control, seeing and feeling her reactions.  It is quite a few things.  I do find that my RL experience heightens not only my play but my  RP experience.  Bondage and rope can not only be intimate, but freeing for a lot of the submissives I've interacted with because they can simply let go, feel and just be.

 

[16:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yessssss!

 

[16:13] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): A few have said it already, take your time, weave the scene, and bring them in.#

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree....when I watch the riggers at the First Life club, the total euphoria that most of the bottoms/subs get as they are tied and suspended is gorgeous

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): punctuated with a spank or paddle or what not at times too!

 

[16:14] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): I've had subs got directly to subspace with just a single tie

 

[16:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yum!

 

[16:15] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): People also say that being tied and put at their Dom s feet, or just tied to a piece of furnishing can have that effect too

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   snaps my fingers "out of subspace! Out out out!" :P

 

[16:16] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   looks for an anchor to not float away.

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent comment Rarden, thanks for sharing your experiences in both First and Second Lives.

 

[16:16] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Benedetta thanks for waiting you have the floor.

 

[16:16]  (Benedetta it>en): Thank you

 

[16:17]  (Benedetta en>en): First of all, I don't think it's a game in the sense that everything that concerns the mind and here in SL can only touch the mind and in the end it's not a game but something serious and the atmosphere that is created involves the mind completely... being tied up here and entering into the details of the action involves the mind and manages to enter the soul... bondage is something that frees the mind in my opinion the ropes, the handcuffs, the gags, the blindfolds create a high emotion and as such it affects my mind, but not to excite my body but to give value to the emotions

 

[16:17]  (Benedetta it>en): have you ever felt an emotion?

 

[16:17]  (Benedetta it>en): an emotion enters the nose, reaches the throat and descends into the soul

 

[16:18]  (Benedetta it>en): the ropes a ribbon a blindfold anything creates an emotion and tied it takes me together with my dominant on a cloud and from there... we start #

 

[16:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wow that was beautiful, Benedetta!

 

[16:19]  (Benedetta it>en): Thank you

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And I agree that SL is NOT a game...we are all real people here interacting and weaving a story together.

 

[16:19] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): C @ Benedetta (It can wait till after Vent goes. It's indirectly related.)

 

[16:19] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): There's no "win"...unless the best scene ever is the goal...but that's elusive.

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Benedetta, thank you for sharing that and welcome to Xaara!  Benevenuto! ♥

 

[16:20]  (Benedetta it>en): Thank you

 

[16:20] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Vent you are up please!

 

[16:21] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): Thank you . I agree with a lot that has been said before.. But I wanted to add the simple estetic beautify of the human round forms, shaped by the straight lines of ropes

 

[16:21] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): *beauty

 

[16:21] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): and for me, the shaping of it

 

[16:22] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): when applying ropes

 

[16:22] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): For me this works in both worlds.#

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love that!

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes it's very nice to see indeed

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love watching the riggers

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks for that Vent!

 

[16:23] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wynter you have a comment on what Benedetta said?

 

[16:24] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Benedetta, I just wanted to say that there can be much more to what happens in SL for many people. Imagination lives on a spectrum, some you can tell "imagine a car" and they think of only the words.. you tell someone on the opposite end of that spectrum to imagine the car, and they can tell you the texture of the interior, how that new car smell permeates everything, the roar of the engine, the glinting of light off of the paint. When we translate that to BDSM emoting someone could literally take all the things they see, hear, and describe that they feel, and make it very real for themselves.#

 

[16:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Yes!

 

[16:25]  (Benedetta it>en): Exactly... these are called emotions

 

[16:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Experience  is different for each person....psychology is still working on how we really share an objective reality when everything we sense and process can be differrent

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but emotions are very real as Benedetta said

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And being bound...or binding someone...produces (or can produce) a strong emotional response that fills one

 

[16:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So very well said Wynter!

 

[16:26] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   smiles and nods.

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thank you!

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Liss has a question

 

[16:27] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): Listening to the responses, it is clear that the aesthetics of bondage are an important part as is the ritual of applying the restraints. I am always intrigued by a one bar prison which imprisons  the sub without the necessity of ropes, cuffs etc. Does this really constitute bondage and how would people react to it?#

 

[16:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone can answer, please DO NOT use a C.  Just answer if you wish.

 

[16:28]  (Benedetta it>en): it's the order that affects the mind even without ropes or handcuffs, aesthetically it loses something but mentally I fill the space

 

[16:29] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): I agree with Benedetta, it's the idea and the mind that do more in that case then the item itself

 

[16:29] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): If I'm understanding the question properly, cages/prison cells are a form of restraint. It can be a way for someone to enjoy confinement without perhaps having the words to describe all the intricate knot work. Or just a different aesthetic altogether.

 

[16:30]  (Benedetta it>en): try replacing visual aesthetics with mental ones

 

[16:30] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): YES!

 

[16:30]  (Benedetta it>en): and you will realize that the effect is duplicated

 

[16:30] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Theater of the Mind!

 

[16:30]  (Benedetta it>en): the theater of the mind...exactly

 

[16:30] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): for everything SL offers the mind is still the key

 

[16:30] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): It is similar but basically a very simple way of capturing/displaying a sub using a carefully adjusted upright tube.

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Too bad Brianne doesn't come anymore...we could have her demonstrate :P

 

[16:31]  (Benedetta it>en): it's a theater where you are the stage... you are the lights... you are the voice... you are the sound

 

[16:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Agreed Benedetta!

 

[16:32] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):   nods

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent!

 

[16:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Liss

 

[16:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I have a question....please answer this as you will, no C

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We talked quite a bit about rigging, which is yummy...but what about just being cuffed and helpless at a Dominant's feet?  How does that feel to you either as the bottom/sub so tied and helpless, or the Domiant with that sexy person there totally incapable of movement?

 

[16:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): no C just answer

 

[16:35]  (Benedetta it>en): I would feel very lively I would start breathing

 

[16:35]  (Benedetta it>en): and I would be far from defenseless but rather very protected

 

[16:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli):   smiles

 

[16:35] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): It would depend on the dominant I suppose. Brittany has bound and blindfolded me in the past, and although I had fear around the situation, it was also exhilarating and ultimately calming once I settled.#

 

[16:35] Liss (LissomePrey Resident):   nods

 

[16:36] Ɓrittaŋɣ ღ Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Brittany Serenade): We've both been helpless and it's very intimate ♥

 

[16:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As a switch I can attest that either side of that equation is very sexy hot, but for different reasons.

 

[16:36] Liss (LissomePrey Resident): For me almost a paradox. It is both calming and freeing but also frustrating in that I am greedy and ideally wanting more.

 

[16:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hee hee good point Liss!

 

[16:37] Ɓrittaŋɣ ღ Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Brittany Serenade): Liss at least around our house we call that greedy frustration "eagerness" heh

 

[16:37] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):   smirks and nods.

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I call it "shirley"

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): (Sesame Street reference...showing my age)

 

[16:38] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): It boils down to the essence of the power exchange.  The trust given to me when a sub is otherwise helpless and vulnerable. On top of that, the inability to move ads a certain focus ; nothing else for my partner to do then just be, watch and listen

 

[16:38] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): At least you didn't call it "late for dinner" (and I thought that was an Airplane reference tbh)

 

[16:38] Ɓrittaŋɣ ღ Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Brittany Serenade): (here I was thinking that was a blowup doll from airplane)

 

[16:38] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): LOL

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I love that Vent!

 

[16:39] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): (a new series Airplane meets Sesame Street)

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:39] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): ((Today in Sesame Street.. we learn to speak Jive!)

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): lol

 

[16:40] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): (chuckles thinking about the smiling blow up doll)

 

[16:40] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): I also think there is an important aspect in the exchange around the exchange

 

[16:40] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): the deeper the trust I think the more fully one can experience the event

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yes yes and yes!

 

[16:40] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): if you don't know someone its hard to let go

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): at least fully

 

[16:41] Rarden Savage (Rarden85 Resident): but again.. anticipation fits.. i've given rope demonstrations where a sub I've never touched before slips into subspace with my first tie

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as there is always that *thing* in the back of the mind

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): It's all so yummy

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and it really is an intimate moment when the sub is just 100% dependent on their Dom  to even just move...that's where the real letting go can happen,  IMO, Rarden.

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Excellent!

 

[16:43]  (Benedetta it>en): I apologize for interrupting but I have to go...thank you all for your hospitality and see you soon

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ok any final comments on this topic?

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Ciao, Benedetta, molto grazie per i commenti!

 

[16:44]  (Benedetta en>en): smiles

 

[16:44] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): Benedetta, alla prossima ..  :)

 

[16:44] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): all right, great to get this going again and thank you all so much for your comments!

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): in two weeks we do "D is for Discipline!"

 

[16:45] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): Oh, looking forward to it ;)

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): which I will likely split into two discussions

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): one on behavior modification

 

[16:45] Vent Sinatra (Vent Sinatra): thank you Vanessa for the moderation

 

[16:45] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade): Always a wonderful discussion, Vanni. Thank you for your awesome facilitation :)

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and one on "funishment" ;)

 

[16:45] Johan Dark (WJohanW Resident): Thank you Vanni, Thank you everyone for great comments and discussion!

 

[16:45] Ɓrittaŋɣ ღ Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Brittany Serenade): Thank you for having us Vanni

 

[16:45] Wɣŋtɛr Sɛrɛŋaɖɛ (Wynter Serenade):  's ears perk up at funishment.

"Taking the Step In" -- February 22, 2026

 [16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Good morning and welcome to Koffee Klatch!

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

 

[16:39] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We tend to go in the order received, however, we generally will promote questions directed at a person's comment to the top.  The handy-dandy giant coffee cup in the middle will keep track of the order.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): If a person asks a question of the group, there is no need to put in a "C" to reply, replies to the question will be open.  Just answer, or we'll have a bunch of "Cs" at the bottom.

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Please keep further greetings and extraneous talk in IM...otherwise it gets noisy!  Thank you! ♥

 

[16:40] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): The archive for this Klatch can be found here:  https://xaarakoffeeklatch.blogspot.com/  It houses current and many older discussions.

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): With that out of the way, we'll begin.

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Today our topic is "Entering the Lifestyle"

 

[16:41] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): oooooh!

 

[16:41] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): along with what appears to be "serious chat lag" *grr*

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): As we are in a BDSM sim and involved in the lifestyle, I like to do this discussion once a year to let us "trade notes" on how we got involved in the lifestyle.

 

[16:42] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): And whether it's only here in SL or in First Life as well.

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): BTW I do prefer the term "First Life" to "Real Life" as I think we are all real...even though we're 25 forever.... ;)

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): usually...

 

[16:43] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): lol

 

[16:43] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): So I will start with my story and you can put in a C to tell us yours as I go on

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): My real story of this lifestyle starts in my 20s.  I had some inkling of it before but didn't really know much.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I might have done some kinky stuff then *cough*...but that's neither here nor there.

 

[16:45] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): But what I did not know was there was a whole lifestyle around kinky stuff!

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): my first voyage into it was good old IRC (Internet Relay Chat) in the 90s

 

[16:46] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as there were a lot of people who created kinky channels and were doing text based kinky stuff

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I don't know how many, if any, in the room were on IRC?  Also AOL and other online services had their own adult, kinky chat rooms.

 

[16:47] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): ICQ!

 

[16:47] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ha!

 

[16:48] Rhizanthella Neximus (PreciousLove Sabra): irc and mirc and aol and yahoo excite chat

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ah yes!

 

[16:48] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): in the mid 2000s I found SL due to a friend of mine in an online game I was playing doing DJ stuff here

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and not long after I found out there was a big kink community that had gone from text based chat to SL

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so I started experimenting in BDSM here and had tons of fun

 

[16:49] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): then around 2010 started taking steps into the First Life world

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I found a club nearby due to a student who had written a paper for my Sociology of Deviance class on her experiences in that club!

 

[16:50] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): oh wow!

 

[16:50] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it's kind of a longish story so I'll skip that for now lol

 

[16:51] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyway I started going to these expos the club had, like market parties where vendors would show up and sell their paddles, floggers, whips and such

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and there were also "taste test" booths where one could have a little bit of some thing done to them...like spanking, flogging, etc

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): that really piqued my interest

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so after a few of those I went to a big convention here in Los Angeles, DomConLA

 

[16:52] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): which is the biggest multi day BDSM event on the West Coast that I know of

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and not long after that joined the local club as a member

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so I've been a full time pervert for 15ish years now

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): both in First and Second Life

 

[16:53] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and that's my story of how I got involved!

 

[16:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): That's awesome.

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I'd love to hear yours...and if it's just in SL, don't worry...this is a great place to experience what First Life may not allow for various reasons

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so that's still 100% valid

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok Lyrah go ahead

 

[16:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): Thank you Vanni.

 

[16:54] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): hopefully a few more people will pop in!

 

[16:54] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): Am I able to voice, or are we text onlly?

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): text

 

[16:55] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): ok

 

[16:55] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I can tell you how I went from sl submissive to rl submissive.

 

[16:55] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): oooo yes please!

 

[16:55] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): After discussing and questioning all of my D/s friends for months and months, a trusted dominant finally gave me the advice that was the key to my rl self awakening.

 

[16:55] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): He told me to go on fetlife.com and start joining chat groups and asking questions just like I had been doing in sl and to find a few friends.  Specifically, he told me this, "Go to fet, and find your local munch group and befriend the mother hen.  She will invite you in, and protect you from anyone you need protecting from.  She will also be happy to introduce you to everyone and so you'll have a friend when you go."

 

[16:55] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): So I did.  And it worked!

 

[16:56] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): So I made green bean casserole, put on my chuck taylors and headed over all nervous and all!

 

[16:56] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): And it was an informal gathering where I got to make rope for the first time, and meet abunch of normal people just like me, who happened to have kinks

 

[16:57] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): When I did go to my first munch, just after that, I had friends to talk to from that party

 

[16:57] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): From those connections, I went to my first class at the local play space, and the rest is history

 

[16:57] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): But, for those who are looking to step into the rl from sl

 

[16:58] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): from my experience, meeting that mother hen, was really the key that enabled me to have the courage to step out on my own

 

[16:58] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and I've been at it for just over 10 years rl now

 

[16:58] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): it's been a blessing.

 

[16:58] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): the end.

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): \o/

 

[16:58] RB (RBQuinn Resident):  smiles warmly

 

[16:58] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Wonderful!!

 

[16:59] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): aw shucks

 

[16:59] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I should mention that between going to the expos and joining the local club I also went to a few of their munches and Lyrah is spot on...that's the best way to get your toe in

 

[16:59] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): people are so happy to welcome new faces and to give you support

 

[17:00] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): everyone was new once!

 

[17:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): it's a low key event at a place to eat (thus a "munch") and you meet the folks that attend the parties...Our "Mother Hen" was Miss Diana who hosted it

 

[17:00] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): she has been in the Los Angeles BDSM scene since the 70s

 

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): btw as Lyrah will confirm...if you do go to a local munch, dress in very normal clothing!

 

[17:01] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): that's all that's allowed

 

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone showing up in latex or leather always got us to chuckle lol

 

[17:01] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): Grama-friendly attire

 

[17:01] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): because it's usually at a local restaurant

 

[17:01] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): in a meeting room

 

[17:01] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yep

 

[17:01] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and we tip well.

 

[17:01] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): the management knows why we're there

 

[17:01] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and we want to be welcomed back

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): didn't happen often but once in a while we would get new folks who didn't read the whole announcement .... "Dress in street clothes!"

 

[17:02] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): and you don't mention who attends, because you don't want others outing you.  That's the golden rule

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): that increased a bit after the 50 Shades movie lol

 

[17:02] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yes

 

[17:03] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): same with public play spaces.

 

[17:03] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): done.

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): there is whole etiquette around attending a club

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I give a whole workshop on that!

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): how to find one and what to do

 

[17:03] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): "Moving to First Life"

 

[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks so much Lyrah for sharing, I love that you're so immersed in your local kink scene!

 

[17:04] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Candice you are up!

 

[17:04] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): i actually never released i started some 30 years ago, not knowing it was fetish/bdsm...when i worked on ships, when i came home i joined a local text chat FL..and chatted to some amazing people learning more my likes/dislikes..i started meeting people following the safety code steps..then found on FB sl advertised for learning RP hence i joined and found Xaara and the safety freedom to share and learn keeps me excited and proud to call it my 2nd life home. ~#

 

[17:04] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I'm happy to share if I can be helpful to anyone.  Thank you Vanni.

 

[17:05] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): That's awesome Candice!

 

[17:05] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): :)

 

[17:06] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): have you been involved in the scene most to all of your time in SL

 

[17:07] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): i started in gor, found it ummmh less gor than the books i read, and luckily fell into Xaara

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): heh heh

 

[17:07] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I've not spent time in Gor but from what I get even the "By the Book" sims aren't always quite "by the books"

 

[17:08] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): exactly true true Miss Vanni

 

[17:08] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): there are Gorean first life groups too

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): A friend found a message board of a local group that was open to read but you had to be a member to post

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so I was looking over it and it was...interesting

 

[17:09] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): some locals tried setting up but it was mainly peacock feathers showing

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): one thread was where the Masters were debating if their Kajira wives/girlfriends should vote

 

[17:09] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Most thought no

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but one suggested "Yes, but we fill out their ballots for them"

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): they liked that idea

 

[17:10] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): nods ego and peacock feathers

 

[17:10] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): bahahaaha!

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): quite the interesting bunch!

 

[17:10] ayelara K (GiadaGalatea Resident): giggles

 

[17:10] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but as long as it's consensual it's all good

 

[17:10] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): indeed Miss Vanni

 

[17:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Candice!

 

[17:11] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): my pleasure Miss Vanni

 

[17:11] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok anyone else want to share their experiences that got them in the scene, either in SL, or also in First Life?

 

[17:13] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): RB please when ready!

 

[17:13] RB (RBQuinn Resident): So, this is embarrassing......

 

[17:14] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): no it's not!

 

[17:14] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): this is a safe space Sir

 

[17:14] RB (RBQuinn Resident): 20 years ago my gf at the time showed up one day saying she thought she might be 'a submissive'

 

[17:14] RB (RBQuinn Resident): *winks at Vanni and Lyrah*

 

[17:14] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): !!

 

[17:14] RB (RBQuinn Resident): This is all inside SL, btw.

 

[17:15] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Well, I was aghast.

 

[17:15] RB (RBQuinn Resident): I knew nothing about 'the lifestyle' and assumed the most horrible things about both sides of the slash.

 

[17:16] RB (RBQuinn Resident): But, I'm a supportive guy so I gritted my teeth and we went off to find BDSM

 

[17:17] RB (RBQuinn Resident): As we visited different sims dedicated to various aspects, things started to click in my head, and I could see myself 'in there'.

 

[17:17] RB (RBQuinn Resident): 20 years later..... I still am 'here' :)

 

[17:17] RB (RBQuinn Resident): #

 

[17:18] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): yay

 

[17:18] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): woot!

 

[17:18] Connie (Constanse Levenque):  lifts her arms in the air and cheers quietly

 

 

[09:18] RB (rbquinn) smiles around

 

[09:19] Lyrah Lane: Congratulations, Sir!

 

[09:19] Vanessa Cannoli: What happens is a good number of people (not saying you RB, or anyone here, just in general) find out about BDSM via porn...and think BDSM as portrayed in a porn is what we do

 

[09:19] Lyrah Lane: ... amd Connie!

 

[09:19] Vanessa Cannoli: so they think we're sick and twisted...but porn doesn't show real sex never mind real BDSM

 

[09:20] ayelara K (giadagalatea): smiles,  whispers, "just when I though I was out, they pull me back in"

 

[09:20] Vanessa Cannoli: so when they meet real kinky people and find out we're quite "normal" except when we're having our kinky fun, they realize it's not what they thought

 

[09:20] Vanessa Cannoli: and I think it's quite normal to flog a willing subject anyway...

 

[09:20] Vanessa Cannoli: ;)

 

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: so we break the stereotypes

 

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: I'm glad you got into it RB :)

 

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: And that you and Connie have such a great connection too

 

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: Thanks! ♥

 

[09:21] RB (rbquinn) smiles and nods

 

[09:21] Connie (constanse.levenque) smiles and hides behind His leg

 

[09:21] Connie (constanse.levenque): ❤

 

[09:21] Vanessa Cannoli: Back to Lyrah

 

[09:21] Lyrah Lane: Thank you.  You know when I heard about BDSM, before I became a card carrying member, that is, I thought it was people enjoying cruelty, as well.

 

[09:22] Lyrah Lane: What I loved about it, was that it could be planned out

 

[09:22] Lyrah Lane: negotiated

 

[09:22] Lyrah Lane: I could get what I want, and my partner the same

 

[09:23] Lyrah Lane: before I figured it out, I never knew what to expect from a partner, or what he should expect of me

 

[09:23] Lyrah Lane: and I also enjoy the safety of public play

 

[09:23] Vanessa Cannoli: 💯

 

[09:23] Lyrah Lane: that eyes are watching to make sure things dont get out of hand, there are safewords

 

[09:23] Lyrah Lane: I feel much safer practicing ethical BDSM than I ever did in a vanilla relationship.

 

[09:23] Lyrah Lane: done.

 

[09:23] Vanessa Cannoli: Totally!

 

[09:24] Vanessa Cannoli: at the club, we have had only a few times in my experiences there for all these years that anyone yelled "red"

 

[17:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but the few times it did happen, not only the Dungeon Monitor but everyone free went to see what was going on

 

[17:24] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): but that's a good thing

 

[17:24] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): yes!

 

[17:25] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): you CAN call red when needed

 

[17:25] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): awesome

 

[17:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and people will come running

 

[17:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so it's as safe as it can possibly be made

 

[17:25] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): sure sometimes mistakes happen, a whip goes out of control for a sec, a hit is a little too hard

 

[17:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but the people have sense to stop and deal with it immediately in 99% of the cases

 

[17:26] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I agree--- public play is much safer than anything done behind "closed doors"

 

[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and yummy to watch too!

 

[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): thanks Lyrah!

 

[17:27] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone else have a tale to tell?

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Hi Ema!

 

[17:28] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): hello Miss :)

 

[17:28] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): We're discussing how we got into the scene

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): but we may be done ;)

 

[17:29] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): oh for me dead easy :):)

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): go for it!

 

[17:29] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): i met Lizzie in fogbound :)

 

[17:29] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): i knew nothing of D/s

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ooo bound in the fog

 

[17:29] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): kinky!

 

[17:30] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): hehehe

 

[17:30] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): but she had a link to mountain biking in her profile so we started talking

 

[17:30] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): and that led to me being owned by her for 8 years !!!:)

 

[17:31] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): nice!

 

[17:31] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): nice Ema

 

[17:31] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): always have an open heart :):) smiles

 

[17:31] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): #

 

[17:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): you never know where that perfect Dominant or sub might be waiting!

 

[17:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Thanks Ema!!

 

[17:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ♥

 

[17:32] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): lexically Miss  i was so full of questions :)

 

[17:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Anyone else?

 

[17:32] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): oh sure!

 

[17:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): the step in can be scary...but seriously...can anyone really think of just being 100% vanilla after getting involved?

 

[17:33] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): I couldn't

 

[17:33] Connie (Constanse Levenque):  shakes head

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): too much fun *giggles*

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): last call

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): anyone else?

 

[17:34] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): you can not un learn Miss surley :):)

 

[17:34] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): rolls the drum

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Blessed are they that flick the whip for theirs is the Kingdom of Kink

 

[17:34] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): amen

 

[17:35] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): lol

 

[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ok then

 

[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): two things...first does anyone that shared today NOT want their contribution shared on the blog

 

[17:35] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): as this is more personal I want to keep consent

 

[17:35] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): Thank You Miss Vanni, great topic

 

[17:35] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): I don't mind.

 

[17:35] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): thank you for asking,

 

[17:35] Pionika (Pionika Resident): Thank you, Vanessa, for sharing your experiences so wonderfully, and thank you to everyone who shared. It was a very interesting conversation. The time flew by.

 

[17:35]  (Pionika's SV Translator ru>en): Thank you, Vanessa, for sharing your experiences so wonderfully, and thank you to everyone who shared.

 

[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): :)

 

[17:36] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): mine is free to share Miss Vanni

 

[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so you're all good with the transcript

 

[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): ?

 

[17:36] RB (RBQuinn Resident): Yes, Vanni

 

[17:36] Ema  (Ema1983 Resident): nods happly yes miss

 

[17:36] Lyrah Lane (Lyrah Lane): Thank you for the food for thought!  I enjoyed this today, Vanni.   Thank you everyone.

 

[17:36] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): everyone knows my story

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): Second, starting in two weeks we begin our yearly wind through the BDSM acronym

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): we'll start with "B is for Bondage"

 

[17:37] RB (RBQuinn Resident):  cheers

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): so be here to share your bondage kinks *grins*

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): well talk

 

[17:37] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): o.o

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): and act if you want lol

 

[17:37] Candice :::HotD::: (CandiceElla Resident): lol

 

[17:37] Vanessa Cannoli (Vanessa Cannoli): other than that thanks for a great chat!